Canadians get screwed by Yamaha

[Thevmaxrider]

Went to the local dealer today to pick up a new set of bars, on a whim I asked the MSRP of the new Max........... $21,990 Cdn + taxes, licensing, PDI, etc. Nothing like getting screwed by Yamaha!!!!!

[richwrench]

DAY-AMM - I thought the Canadian dollar was worth more than US these days - RIP-OFF At least you guys have better beer...:biglaugh:

[KJShover]

I'ts looking like it's going to be over $20k here as well. Oh well, My house will be payed for in 5 years. I'll think about another ride then. Till then I'm still happy with what I have.:clapping:

[113s&s]

after a few years prices will drop like a rock

[Thevmaxrider]

Sent Yamaha Canada a pointed email las night. Told them I will wait until the prices comes down as they are not going to sell too many at $22k. Figure I can buy 2 B Kings or 2 ZX14's for that price.

[RJ RJ RJ]

Went to the local dealer today to pick up a new set of bars, on a whim I asked the MSRP of the new Max........... $21,990 Cdn + taxes, licensing, PDI, etc. Nothing like getting screwed by Yamaha!!!!!

you guys are aware that all the things you buy cost more here right?

The new Ducati 848 is 16,000 and 13000 or so in the states for instance...

My yamaha dealer (cycle city in burlington) told me i couldnt order untill july and that the delivery would be sept and that (as of yesterday) there were no specs on "next years" vmax.... I find it funny that they basically lost 20000 dollars business because of some idiot... if i owned that business i would not want a jerk off in sales. Jesus i could lie a better story than all that. "tell you what mr customer, i don have all the info just yet im a little behind in my work but i will take your check and call the distributor on monday to confirm i can place an order and get back to you right away...can i get your name an number?"
sheesh

I would really be angry if yamaha has a later release date in Canada...that could mean we would have difficulties buying in Buffalo and importing to Canada... Ducati pulled this shit on the 2008 models and it makes it very difficult to import one....

All things assiide i have no problem going to upstate ny (45 minute drive) and buying the bike for 4 grand less....

[RJ RJ RJ]

after a few years prices will drop like a rock

no they wont..... lots of bikes sell at this price.

And you know what? once it is declared "quickest bike in the world ever" by all the magazines get ready to pay more for it.....

And if by some freaking miracle yamaha where to decide they priced it wrong it would only drop a grand or so....

Dont hold your breath waiting for a 17 thousand dollar motorcycle to be reduced to 12000.....

[Thevmaxrider]

you guys are aware that all the things you buy cost more here right?

The new Ducati 848 is 16,000 and 13000 or so in the states for instance...

My yamaha dealer (cycle city in burlington) told me i couldnt order untill july and that the delivery would be sept and that (as of yesterday) there were no specs on "next years" vmax.... I find it funny that they basically lost 20000 dollars business because of some idiot... if i owned that business i would not want a jerk off in sales. Jesus i could lie a better story than all that. "tell you what mr customer, i don have all the info just yet im a little behind in my work but i will take your check and call the distributor on monday to confirm i can place an order and get back to you right away...can i get your name an number?"
sheesh

I would really be angry if yamaha has a later release date in Canada...that could mean we would have difficulties buying in Buffalo and importing to Canada... Ducati pulled this shit on the 2008 models and it makes it very difficult to import one....

All things assiide i have no problem going to upstate ny (45 minute drive) and buying the bike for 4 grand less....

RJ,

I am sure you remember the recent hubub with the automakers and their pricing. The point is that Yamaha has no good reason to jack up the price here. Things used to cost more here due to the fact that the loonie sucked against the US dollar. When it was only worth $0.65 US then the 20% price difference made sense, now its just a rip off.

As to you local dealers sale rep, he's a boob!!! My local dealer qouted "Deposits to be taken starting Friday of $1000 with delivery starting in November." Your rep there didnt want to look for you..

[RJ RJ RJ]

RJ,

I am sure you remember the recent hubub with the automakers and their pricing. The point is that Yamaha has no good reason to jack up the price here. Things used to cost more here due to the fact that the loonie sucked against the US dollar. When it was only worth $0.65 US then the 20% price difference made sense, now its just a rip off.

As to you local dealers sale rep, he's a boob!!! My local dealer qouted "Deposits to be taken starting Friday of $1000 with delivery starting in November." Your rep there didnt want to look for you..

yup your right about CYCLE CITY BURLINGTON ONTARIO CANADA being totally detrimental to selling bikes for them selves...odd to be in busness and not actually sell things. anyway...

Oh yes i fully aware about the auto price hubub...your right...and its still not fixed.... ducati for instance elected to keep the price difference and to block shipemnt of us bikes into canada b not assisteing in claiming they are meeting canadian standards.... not the only ones to be idiots.... there really are a lot of products not just cars and bikes, that are still cheaper in the states..... even the gas in the states is close to 80 cents a liter....

[Buster Hymen]

And you know what? once it is declared "quickest bike in the world ever" by all the magazines get ready to pay more for it.....



From the specs I've seen, that will never happen.

[gunrunner]

Not as bad as here between 26k - 30kNZ and with Yamaha not likely to produce many prices will stay high . Lets hope it makes our gen 1 bikes worht more

:confused2:no they wont..... lots of bikes sell at this price.

And you know what? once it is declared "quickest bike in the world ever" by all the magazines get ready to pay more for it.....

And if by some freaking miracle yamaha where to decide they priced it wrong it would only drop a grand or so....

Dont hold your breath waiting for a 17 thousand dollar motorcycle to be reduced to 12000.....

[Thevmaxrider]

yup your right about CYCLE CITY BURLINGTON ONTARIO CANADA being totally detrimental to selling bikes for them selves...odd to be in busness and not actually sell things. anyway...

Oh yes i fully aware about the auto price hubub...your right...and its still not fixed.... ducati for instance elected to keep the price difference and to block shipemnt of us bikes into canada b not assisteing in claiming they are meeting canadian standards.... not the only ones to be idiots.... there really are a lot of products not just cars and bikes, that are still cheaper in the states..... even the gas in the states is close to 80 cents a liter....

I know of several instances like the Ducati one that were circumvented by the dealer. They put 1 mile on the bike, called it a demo and sold it that way. Ducati was blocking the selling of new bikes and not demo's or used:biglaugh:

[KOTH01]

no they wont..... lots of bikes sell at this price.

And you know what? once it is declared "quickest bike in the world ever" by all the magazines get ready to pay more for it.....



Can you explain the math here? I assume by quick you mean quarter-mile.

Given the 683 wet weight and the rumored 197 HP I can see the ZX-14, Hayabusa, B-King, and all 4 liter bikes being quicker in the quarter. Perhaps the new Max has a better 60 ft, maybe an 1/8 mile but it gets passed on the top end of the track. Assuming competent rider on both bikes, same track, same conditions.

I love the new V-max but I am trying to be objective here. At this point we really don't know the actual power output specs of a U.S. V-max do we?

If it turns out it is the best quarter-miler, great. If not that really would not matter that much to me as long as it is close. There are so many other great attributes of the new V-max. :coolgleamA:

[backfire]

you guys are aware that all the things you buy cost more here right?

The new Ducati 848 is 16,000 and 13000 or so in the states for instance...

My yamaha dealer (cycle city in burlington) told me i couldnt order untill july and that the delivery would be sept and that (as of yesterday) there were no specs on "next years" vmax.... I find it funny that they basically lost 20000 dollars business because of some idiot... if i owned that business i would not want a jerk off in sales. Jesus i could lie a better story than all that. "tell you what mr customer, i don have all the info just yet im a little behind in my work but i will take your check and call the distributor on monday to confirm i can place an order and get back to you right away...can i get your name an number?"
sheesh

I would really be angry if yamaha has a later release date in Canada...that could mean we would have difficulties buying in Buffalo and importing to Canada... Ducati pulled this shit on the 2008 models and it makes it very difficult to import one....

All things assiide i have no problem going to upstate ny (45 minute drive) and buying the bike for 4 grand less....

RJ~
The dealer I'm working with has purchased 2 bikes for their inventory, with one of them being mine if I want it. As far as I know, (just spoke to them Thursday) the second isn't spoken for yet and is still available. I'm sure they'd take your order quickly if you want to secure one for yourself. I'd bet dealer trades from State-to-State are possible too, as they are very easy to work with! They also told me that if I don't buy this bike this year for whatever reason, than they will sell it to someone else and they'll use my deposit for some other machine in their inventory that my wife wants this year. That's a possibility of *TWO* bikes available at the same dealer!

Let me know if you want it and I'll forward you my salesman's contact info. :)

[Hercules]

Yes Canadians do get screwed!!http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/images/motorcycles/2009_VMAX_SMM_1.jpg
Select View: Side Profile
Right (http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=2918&section=ft&group=M#contentTop) Left (http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=2918&section=ft&group=M#contentTop)
3/4 Angle
Right (http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=2918&section=ft&group=M#contentTop) Left (http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=2918&section=ft&group=M#contentTop)




Highlights

1679cc, V-4 powerplant with YCC-I & YCC-T
Aluminium chassis with fully adjustable suspension


Price Tag

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/cached/fb604ee140d1ecfddb055161f36e33a3.gif http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/cached/ee8d8f29ea38bf09d804e00f7dcd5ede.gif

[Thevmaxrider]

I got a response to an email I sent to Yamaha about the price:

Good afternoon:

It is impossible to simply answer this type of inquiry regarding pricing
between US and Canadian products.

There are many variables and fluctuations and the exchange rate today is
not necessarily the rate fixed when the prices were initially negotiated.
In Canada different import expenditures, volume purchasing (300 million vs.
32 million), and different associated costs of operating in Canada vs. the
USA. Such dilemmas are shared by Yamaha and other importers and
manufacturers.

I do believe, for reasons mentioned above, you will see the prices drop but
it will probably not be in the near future. There are a few interesting
articles in the Globe and Mail regarding this and they indicate that across
the board Canadians pay more than US consumers (they calculate 24 per cent
across the board). I can understand your frustration but I'm sure you
realize the Canadian dollar rose 27 per cent in '07. We negotiated with our
factory long before these significant changes. We will try and assist our
dealers and customers but firms in Canada do have different costs and
expenditures. I am sure you will agree that we also need to support local
business to make sure we have a dealership in proximity for all our
servicing needs.

We also believe our prices are compatible with our competition in Canada
and like most firms we do not consider the US to be our market. Even when
their dollar was much stronger we did not advertise to US consumers and
encourage them to shop in Canada.

Regards and thank you for contacting us. I do hope you find the Yamaha of
your dreams and I naturally hope it is purchased at one of our fine
dealerships in Canada.

Scott


:bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head:At least they responded. Also I am working a deal with the local dealer as they say they will come in at less than MSRP if at all possible. They want to maintain a bit of their margin of course, but if they are willing to deal why not ask. This dealer has also indicated that if others would like to get in on the quote that they give me, which I will pass on through here, they would be more than willing to work with others.

[RJ RJ RJ]

RJ~
The dealer I'm working with has purchased 2 bikes for their inventory, with one of them being mine if I want it. As far as I know, (just spoke to them Thursday) the second isn't spoken for yet and is still available. I'm sure they'd take your order quickly if you want to secure one for yourself. I'd bet dealer trades from State-to-State are possible too, as they are very easy to work with! They also told me that if I don't buy this bike this year for whatever reason, than they will sell it to someone else and they'll use my deposit for some other machine in their inventory that my wife wants this year. That's a possibility of *TWO* bikes available at the same dealer!

Let me know if you want it and I'll forward you my salesman's contact info. :)

sure id love that info thanks

[backfire]

sure id love that info thanks

Here's my email addy~ jpetrossi2005@yahoo.com

[Thevmaxrider]

For those Canadians thinking about going south and buying a new Vmax, think again. Yamaha has instructed US dealers that they cannot sell a new Max to anyone without them having a verifiable US address. Even if, like me, you could come up with a US address, the VIN is registered as a US bike, when you import it to Canada and register it you void the warranty. This information is directly from a dealer in Canada, btw they are just as pissed about the Canadian price as we are.

[RJ RJ RJ]

For those Canadians thinking about going south and buying a new Vmax, think again. Yamaha has instructed US dealers that they cannot sell a new Max to anyone without them having a verifiable US address. Even if, like me, you could come up with a US address, the VIN is registered as a US bike, when you import it to Canada and register it you void the warranty. This information is directly from a dealer in Canada, btw they are just as pissed about the Canadian price as we are.

thats illegal , if the same bike is sold in canada.... all they can really do is claim its not approved for canadian laws at import...

your dealer buddy is just saying that to get you to buy from him...

[G Man]

thats illegal , if the same bike is sold in canada.... ...

I'll tell you something. It is spelled out clearly in the dealer agreement. No selling of any product for export out of country, even though it does happen. The dealer agreement is a binding legal contract. If Yamaha felt like it, they could pull the dealership out from a Yamaha dealer for it. Very rarely do you see it happen, but they have the right and can strong arm dealers if and when they see fit. No joke.

G Man

[RJ RJ RJ]

I'll tell you something. It is spelled out clearly in the dealer agreement. No selling of any product for export out of country, even though it does happen. The dealer agreement is a binding legal contract. If Yamaha felt like it, they could pull the dealership out from a Yamaha dealer for it. Very rarely do you see it happen, but they have the right and can strong arm dealers if and when they see fit. No joke.

G Man

sorry your right that they put that in a dealer agreement.... but that "dont mean its right"... :

Pricing of autos targeted

Canadian, U.S. manufacturers to face $2B class action over sales practices
Jim Middlemiss, Financial Post Published: Wednesday, September 26, 2007


The major Canadian and U.S. auto manufacturers are about to be hit with a $2-billion class-action suit in Canada over their sales practices, which a law firm alleges artificially enhances the price of vehicles in Canada and dissuades consumers from crossing the border to take advantage of a stronger dollar to purchase or lease cheaper vehicles in the United States.
Toronto class-action law firm Juroviesky and Ricci is expected to file the suit on behalf of four Toronto residents who say they paid more for cars in Canada, after factoring in the exchange rate, than the comparable or identical cars cost in the United States. The suit covers consumers who bought cars between August, 2005, and August, 2007, a period when the Canadian dollar was rapidly appreciating. It also seeks $100-million in punitive damages.
The action, which also names the Canadian Automobile Dealers Association (CADA) and its U.S. counterpart, the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA), alleges the defendants "conspired to lessen competition and to unreasonably enhance the price of new cars sold in Canada," contrary to the Competition Act.
The suit claims the defendants engaged in a "series of concerted actions, agreements and directives amongst each other" that had the effect of reducing competition in the U.S. and Canadian marketplace for new cars. They did so by attempting to control and limit the cross-shipping of new cars across the border, the suit claims.
Such actions allegedly include:
-forcing consumers to sign "no-export clauses" in their sales contracts to prevent them from taking vehicles home to Canada or the United States;
-failing to honour warranties from vehicles purchased on the other side of the border;
-penalizing dealers who sold vehicles, which were later exported, through the use of "chargebacks" or threatening to withhold inventory or popular styles and colour of vehicles;
-Threatening to terminate dealerships of Canadian dealers that didn't comply.
The Competition Act makes it an offence for anyone to conspire to lessen competition or unreasonably enhance the prices.
William Price, director of legal services at NADA, said he had not seen the lawsuit and was unable to comment. Neither could Honda or Ford Motor Co. Calls to CADA, General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Canada were not returned.
The plaintiffs' lawyer Henry Juroviesky said "we allege a cross-border conspiracy between U.S. head offices and their Canadian affiliates to each protect the high profits in their respective jurisdictions by not allowing the cross-shipping or import of cars from Canada to the U.S. or the U.S. to Canada." The suit claims that when the dollar trades below US70¢, it's advantageous for U.S. consumers to buy cars here, and when it trades above US80¢, it's better for Canadians to buy cars in the United States because of the pricing differential between the two countries. Mr. Juroviesky said that under the "natural laws of competition," the prices should be comparable, once the exchange is factored in.


Right now you should be able to go to Buffalo and get a fully loaded Camry for the mid-20s. In a Toronto showroom you're walking out at $36,000 or $37,000 and it [the dollar] is at par."A recent report from automotive analyst Dennis DesRosiers found the price differential between the United States and Canada is typically $1,000, but goes as high as $7,960 for an intermediate SUV.
This is not the first class action the automotive industry faces over anti-trust allegations regarding Canada-U.S. pricing issues. A similar suit in the United States against manufacturers and dealer associations has been certified, although Toyota has settled for $35-million, but didn't admit to wrongdoing.
Bill Osler, president of the North American Automobile Trade Association, an association for car importers and exporters, said, "The lawsuit doesn't surprise me," noting the ongoing U.S. suit and troubles over cross-border pricing in Europe. "Manufacturers try to charge as much as they can for a vehicle in any particular market. It's easier for them to have different prices in different countries, even if a car is effectively the same."
The case is far from a slam dunk, said Ariel Katz, a law professor at the University of Toronto. Competition law makes a distinction between vertical relationships, those involving a manufacturer and its own distribution network, and horizontal relationships, those among competing manufacturers. There is more leeway in assessing conspiracies under vertical relations, he said, as the authorities are sympathetic to companies that are trying to build their markets and protect their dealers' investments. "It allows for exclusive relationships."
When it comes to horizontal relationships, "you have to prove there is a conspiracy, but you don't have to prove the effect of the conspiracy."
Mr. Juroviesky isn't overly concerned. "At the end of the day, they artificially enhanced the price of cars. At this point that is something that is almost factually undeniable."

[82ndCowboy]

I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
It doesn't make sense that a car manufacturer would be conspiring against itself in two different markets.
They are missing the whole fact that businesses are in business to make money. And if the market in one country pays more for a vehicle, then so be it. If no one bought the vehicles at that price, then the market would dictate a lower cost.
I think the real reason things are more expensive in Canada is because the government is taking a bigger chunk of profits to pay for all the things they provide, like free health care.
And I read an article last year that was talking about how Canada was offering free housing for Mexicans to come up there and work.
So you have to look at the bigger picture, sure the government provides more for their citizens, but the money for that has to come from somewhere!
So which is more important, paying less for stuff, or getting free handouts from the government!

[maxcruiser]

I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
It doesn't make sense that a car manufacturer would be conspiring against itself in two different markets.
They are missing the whole fact that businesses are in business to make money. And if the market in one country pays more for a vehicle, then so be it. If no one bought the vehicles at that price, then the market would dictate a lower cost.
I think the real reason things are more expensive in Canada is because the government is taking a bigger chunk of profits to pay for all the things they provide, like free health care.
And I read an article last year that was talking about how Canada was offering free housing for Mexicans to come up there and work.
So you have to look at the bigger picture, sure the government provides more for their citizens, but the money for that has to come from somewhere!
So which is more important, paying less for stuff, or getting free handouts from the government!

Well hold on Cowboy! I think the point is the suggested retail price of a vehicule or item should not be hugely different from USA and Canada, if the product being sold is the same in both countries. What is tacted on later, gov't taxes, surcharges, whatever is the price to be paid to live in that country.

I don't have a problem paying more taxes to get more services, etc... but that has nothing to do with manufacturers trying to gouge or impose preventive sales techniques - that I do have a problem with.

Mike

[82ndCowboy]

Well sorry Mike!
But why would a company have different MSRP for different countries?
Could it be the cost of selling those vehicles in that country are Higher?
I don't have the answer, I'm just guessing.
And also... if you sold a widget and could get more money for the widget because the market demand allows for it, wouldn't you sell that widget for more, so as to make a better profit?
I'm not knocking you for being frustrated with the different price. And I totally agree that is unfair to restrict you from going to the US and buying something for less and bringing it back to Canada.
But as they say...
That's just As The World Turns!

[maxcruiser]

That's just As The World Turns! For now, Cowboy! - when there was a 30 cent per dollar difference between the two currencies, than the difference was justified, now that the dollars are at par, they thought or hoped that we would not notice if they kept the price differences the same. No matter if the shoe was on the other foot, as per say - we ALL as consumers must keep them honest.

It's corporate greed just like fuel prices, etc... pure bullshit!

Mike

[Thevmaxrider]

One thing we have to remember is that this is MSRP. My local dealer, as posted here in another thread, has offered pricing below that already. At full retail, plus associated fees you would be at $24k easily before taxes. Her highest price, which includes all fees (less taxes), licensing, first service (all parts and labour incuded), 15% off all accessories, 10% of all labour charges is the same as MSRP so there are savings out there if a dealer is willing to budge. Problem is most dealers are looking at this bike as a "special edition" and will not move off of full retail.

[RJ RJ RJ]

I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
It doesn't make sense that a car manufacturer would be conspiring against itself in two different markets.
They are missing the whole fact that businesses are in business to make money. And if the market in one country pays more for a vehicle, then so be it. If no one bought the vehicles at that price, then the market would dictate a lower cost.
I think the real reason things are more expensive in Canada is because the government is taking a bigger chunk of profits to pay for all the things they provide, like free health care.
And I read an article last year that was talking about how Canada was offering free housing for Mexicans to come up there and work.
So you have to look at the bigger picture, sure the government provides more for their citizens, but the money for that has to come from somewhere!
So which is more important, paying less for stuff, or getting free handouts from the government!

Actually...the whole point is no one cares what the msrp is in one country or another.... its quite right to point out "why would they do it...and compete against them selves" THATS EXACTLY THE POINT...they ar not competing:

"conspired to lessen competition and to unreasonably enhance the price of new cars sold in Canada," contrary to the Competition Act."

BTW...we dont offer free housing to Mexicans who come to work.....we offer free housing to ANYONE who comes to work....my family came here from italy and worked the railways to feed their family and help build the nation. Just like the Irish the French and all the rest. The woman i married came here as a refugee from Vietnam with her sisters and not one of them got a free home, haha.... they all got jobs, worked hard and now have kids in medical school .... just between you and i ...being a born and bred Canadian and growing up here...i have never seen any immigrants take the dole.....not like some of my friends from highschool have.... But hey, that what social assistance is for...to help ya out when you need it.....