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max_caper

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We had a situation in Ontario a few years ago where our govt wanted to slash wages, benefits, and rights to strike of unionized employees; it villainized the unions as a way of getting the general public on board. I am not a fan of generalizations including the notion that unions are all bad. I've worked in both unionized and non-unionized environments and each has its merits. I was impressed with a letter written by a Milwaukee librarian and thought I'd share it to those who may be interested (Cheers, Blaine):

"I’ll admit it: I’ve always thought unions were a little pass?. I just couldn’t shake the image of a typical union dude as a hard-bitten, grimy-fingered steelworker swigging black coffee spiked with gin. So despite the fact that as a public librarian I’m a dues-paying member myself, I’ve never mustered the enthusiasm to attend a meeting. I do understand how critical labor unions have been in securing the basic protections and benefits all American workers now enjoy. But it’s hard not take all that for granted; so what I wound up feeling is a vague and nostalgic appreciation for the efforts of the labor unions of yore.

Being a public employee in Wisconsin during one of the most contentious labor conflicts since that archetypal steelworker’s heyday has forced me to reexamine that impression. With thousands of union members and supporters rallying in Madison in protests reminiscent of the Vietnam-era antiwar movement, the face of today’s union is plastered all over the media. That face is young, progressive, and diverse. It’s teachers and librarians as well as firefighters, nurses, sanitation workers, college students, retirees, women, and men.

It’s funny that legislation meant to malign and eviscerate unions has made me realize how vibrant and vital they can be. But my renewed respect for the critical role of collective bargaining only makes it clearer to me that, for librarians, union-busting isn’t the biggest problem. Yes, I’m angry that a politically motivated gubernatorial power grab could set back the rights and quality of life of the middle class for decades. Yes, I’m deeply worried that I, along with many others, could lose the right to have any say about my workplace. And yes, I recognize that such an outcome would be to the detriment of all working middle-class families in Wisconsin, whether employed in the public or private sectors.

But none of it triggers the almost nauseating fury I feel every time I open the newspaper.

Legislation—no matter how destructive—doesn’t last forever. Eventually, new politicians will be elected and new political theories will come into vogue; the pendulum will continue to swing between extremes with an occasional and too-brief pause in the middle. Gov. Scott Walker’s union-busting is horrible and lives may be ruined needlessly in the process, but in the long-term view, it’s temporary.

What is not temporary is the effect of the governor’s favorite tactic in the service of this legislation: the vilification of public employees. It’s the old divide-and-conquer routine. By turning private employees against public ones, Walker can break up the largest constituency that might oppose his ideas. It’s a savvy political tactic, but it will cause permanent, irreparable damage for the most educated and hardworking public employees in Wisconsin and throughout the country. In order to turn the public at large on its own employees, supporters of this bill must paint us as lazy, stupid, overpaid freeloaders. They must imply that we are in our jobs only for the “sweet bennies” they provide.

Countering worthless rhetoric

I won’t apologize for making a living wage, for being able to visit a doctor when I need one, or for choosing a job that will help me build adequate retirement savings. I deserve and expect those things, as educated, passionate workers in any field should. But that’s not why I became a librarian, and I bet it’s not why you did. If we were just after a cushy lifestyle, there are easier (and let’s face it, more surefire) ways of securing one. I didn’t become a librarian to take; I became one because I wanted to give.

Librarians add incredible value to society. We help children develop the early literacy skills that will allow them to excel in school, reduce their dropout rate in high school, and continue on to higher education (and incomes). We help unemployed patrons learn the tech skills they need to find work. We provide enriching books and company to isolated seniors. We are defenders of intellectual freedom—safeguarding free, nonjudgmental access for everybody.

And those are just among the things we are asked to do.

We also do a million little things that were never in our job descriptions. Every day, we cope with patrons dealing with homelessness, mental illness, and extreme poverty—along with their ramifications. We are the default social service for those that have slipped through the cracks. I can’t imagine that anybody would take all of that on just because they want to make $40 grand a year. Like teachers, nurses, police officers, and many other public employees under fire, we do it because we understand how critically important it is.

The enduring problem here is one of value, one of respect. That’s why librarians around the country need to be upset about what’s going on in Wisconsin, whether you belong to a union or not. The governor of Wisconsin is telling us that we are worthless, that we add nothing and contribute nothing, that we are parasites and moochers.

It’s one thing to ask for monetary sacrifices; most librarians have already sacrificed money to do what we love. We’re an intelligent, educated bunch who could have pursued degrees in any number of more lucrative fields, or trotted our little MLISes right over to some hotshot tech company and doubled our salaries. It’s not the fiscal cuts in the bill that make me angry. I’m furious at the insinuation that we are nothing but takers.

Whatever state you live in, whoever your employer is, whether or not your salary and benefits are about to be slashed and burned, this insinuation hurts you immeasurably. The idea that librarians are worthless and even malicious will ding your compensation, sure; but that negative impression will also hurt the library’s overall budget, reduce the quality and quantity of every service we are able to offer, and deter people from walking in our doors.

Library advocacy, critically important during the budget crunches of the last few years, is now even more essential. We need to speak up about the value we bring to our communities. We need to have a presence at community meetings, in the newspapers, and—should it come to that—at protests. I want to see signs in Madison that say “If you can read this, thank a librarian!” I want to see news articles about the people who have found jobs using the library, who would not have internet access without us, who have used our resources to start businesses, pass classes, improve their health, connect with faraway relatives, understand their finances, learn to read. I want every person in every community to know that the library can make a positive difference in their lives.

The poisonous idea that librarians and libraries steal from their communities—and the consequently heightened need to shout our worth from the rooftops—is not confined to the states in which union-busting laws have been introduced. Ideas do not respect legislative borders. Bad budgets and bad legislation will hurt us for a time. Silent acquiescence to the idea we are valueless to our communities will hurt us forever."
 
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Unions have gotten way out of line in the past, but I am not for banning them or barganing, just against Gov. workers striking.

This is the result of the global economy and "free" trade, or "slave" trade allowed by our stinking, bought and paid for politicians and an uncaring, stupid, electorate.:bang head:

They also say nothing about the trillions spent on the illegal and unneeded wars we are fighting or the 8 billion a year given to the wealthy state of Israel or the huge defense budgets when we have NO serious threat except some radical Muslims that assasins could handle or a few cruise missles as well as securing the borders of the US.

We really need to wake up, but fear not, after all is lost and we are in shambles, when it is too late,,,we MAY then wake up as a people,,,maybe.

O
 
I have nothing for or against unions in the private sector , as they are negoiating with their employer , who has skin in the game.

Public employees , however , are negoiating with politicians who want their vote and their money for re-election and power . They have no skin in the game. They can't and won't negoiate in good faith. The unions turn around and give large money contributions to the politicians they are negoiating with for more money and benefits. The taxpayer , who has skin in the game , gets no vote in the process but is expected to pay the bill no matter how costly or bad the deal is. Why are we surprised to find out how outrageous these contracts are when both sides are benefitting from the deal at someone elses expense. Socialism stops working when they run out of other peoples money.
 
I was approached several times over the years to join the union. I remember the laborer's was 20 years to full retirement. I asked how you could pay about 1 1/2 years salary to your retirement and then collect 100% for forty or fifty years. The math just didn't make any sense. Of course the union brothers I was talking to didn't want to ponder any details. They just wanted what ever they could get. I passed.
 
It's just like a 401k, you put 18% of every check in and they have a firm invest it, it grows along with everyone elses money, then you get to retire with it.

There's no scam there.

A unionized employee, a Tea Party member & a corporate CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches out & takes 11 of the cookies, then says to the Tea Party member, “look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie.”
 
I'm embarrassed to say I have a union job. They keep lazy worthless scum employed at jobs they should have and aren't qualified to do in the first place than suck up to admin to get their piece of action under the table.
 
union construction job = $22/hr, benfits, vacation, 401k/retirement

non union construction job = $10-11/hr - no anything

and the non union workers get worked like dogs

news flash for everybody, 75-80% of all money claimed in 2010 in the US to the IRS belonged to less than 1% of the population.

adjusted for inflation in 1980 the median middle class wage was 34,800 USD
in 2010 it was 33,600

weve gotten poorer

the median upper class adjusted for inflation in 1980 was around 400,000 USD

it is now over 1 million


60% of the population holds only a few % of the money

companies are busting record profits

and people are working for the same wages they were working for 20-30 years ago.

a good factory job in the 80s paid 12-15 an hour

a >>>>good<<<< factory job around here pays 11-13

most factories start out here between 7.25 to 9

plastic factory in columbus needed press operators, 8.50
hill rom in batesville needed temp work for 2 weeks and only paid 7.75
STI was hiring for packaging >>> 7.25
factory in bloomington for receiving 2 years experience and forklift certified only paying 8.25

i worked at global in indy and made 10/hr and considered myself lucky


http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

pay a liveable wage or GTFO, there is no walmart in chicago!!
 
to make 15/hr around here you have to be extremely skilled or have a bachelors lol
 
I'm embarrassed to say I have a union job. They keep lazy worthless scum employed at jobs they should have and aren't qualified to do in the first place than suck up to admin to get their piece of action under the table.

I am also in a union job at present. Yes, there are lazy workers that should be turfed but they are protected by the union so it's not as easy as simply showing the person the door. However, I've worked non-union jobs and have seen situations where good, hard-working people who aren't protected by union rules get passed over for lazy, less experienced employees b/c he or she is related to the boss and/or knows to kiss ass.

Not a perfect world either way.

Blaine
 
I am also in a union job at present. Yes, there are lazy workers that should be turfed but they are protected by the union so it's not as easy as simply showing the person the door. However, I've worked non-union jobs and have seen situations where good, hard-working people who aren't protected by union rules get passed over for lazy, less experienced employees b/c he or she is related to the boss and/or knows to kiss ass.

Not a perfect world either way.

Blaine

+1 Blaine!! As I work for the same company and am also a Union Steward (different Union than Blaine's but same company) I can see the good and the bad as well. I have also worked non-union and seen nepotisim at its worst! Unions do have a place in the workforce as a way for the voice of the worker to be heard by management in a situation of collective bargaining. They also have a place where they represent workers over disciplinary matters and other violations of the Collective Agreement, but what angers both Union and non-Union folks are the people who believe that protection ensures that they will have a job for life no matter what they do. Trust me I have filed greviences for people that I really didn't feel they deserved to win, but as a Union rep I do not have the luxury of deciding who I represent. I have a law driven duty to fair representation for all members not just the ones I feel have a reason to need representation. I think that there are a lot of people that have the misconception that everyone agrees with having to protect slugs when we don't necessarily like it either.


Off the soapbox.
 
I'm a Union worker and the gravy train is over. We used to get lifetime health coverage after twenty five years No more. We used to have longevity pay, no more. We used to have a "step plan" wage scale, no more. Now we get $5 per year of service for health care after retirement. I pay more toward retirement than ever. I'm taking ten days (80 hours) of furlogh which is unpaid forced leave. My unions dues are highest they have ever been. Being publc employees I have no right to strike. Since my state is a "right to work" state, all the benefits, wages and concessions my union fights for are extended to all other workers that choose NOT to be in the Union. Ah yes, the mighty mighty Union, who are you Effing kidding?
It ain't what all your politicians are making it out to be. Your Federal politicians that have free lifetime medical and full retirements in twenty years! Don't get me started.
 
Some Unions are stronger than others, and the one I'm a member of is pretty weak. I have worked in both union and non-union jobs, and I can tell you there's no slacking at our shop. You always hear of the middle class worker being forced to take cuts, but you never hear of the politicians or administrators loosing anything. Like Patmax said, I should have been a politician so that I could have served 4 years then retired and receive the same amount of money and benefits for the rest of my life. WTF? Why don't THE POLITICIANS take it in the butt like the rest of us?
 
You DO realize that even if you hold a job "owned by a Union", you CANNOT BE FORCED to join that particular Union? I took a job (current position) that is controlled by a union. I had to take the Local shop to school on whether or not I was going to take the oath and pay full union dues. However, I am required, by Missouri law, to pay a portion of the normal Union dues - currently about 54%. As an Agency Fee Payor, I don't get to go to a Union meeting (like I wanted to anyway). I don't get to vote on anything Union contract related (there's been no votes even for members in the 12+ yrs I've been here anyway). And at the same time, I can proudly claim that ZERO dollars from me ever made it into the "elect Obammer campaign fund". The Union is still required to represent me in every aspect the same way they represent a full union member. I just get excluded from paying them any fees related to continuing their political agenda and advertising etc...

Each and every Union is required by Federal law to inform you of your rights to NOT JOIN their Union when they sign you up. I've yet to talk to anyone who actually knew (ahead of time) of their rights to not join.

Anyone can do this. Google more info on "Agency Fee Payor" and read up on the specific rules for your particular Union, and in your particular state, to find out how you can "opt out" and pay less.
 
I pizzed off a few when I walked away from a union. They wanted me to vote for John What Did I do With My Self Made Medals Kerry. Vote for that lie'n wussy. Yeah, sure. 'Bout the same as a vote for EGore. Pizz on him, too. Big Nam hero, I mean, zero.
 
I wanted to change jobs a few years ago, I interviewed at 2 different places, both held captive by the same union i already work for, I was offer both jobs at considerably lower rate (>$10,000/year) than i was making because of the union. Some people who had to move back to this area with 20 years experience had to start at less money than those with 5 years of experience, because of the union. According to the union you only deserve a vacation in prime summer/winter unless you have 15 years in. According to the union, you need to work every major holiday because you family doesn't matter if you have less than 15 years in. Unions are based on communism/markism.
 
The union, any union used to be a good thing for the workers. Now, its dead. All I've ever seen from a member stand point was you give up two rights and get back one. Every time you lose ground till all you have is a floating holiday to rejoice on. There was a time when joining the union was the best thing you could do. It's now out grown like an old pair of bib overalls. The shame of it is, is there's people with lives still stuck in the end of it and no way to pull out, they're gonna get shafted. I've been in shifty unions and I just can't find any silver lining.
 
You have that right, Evil.Especially in the gov't sector. I placed the below in a news blog. No room to get too detail on there.

'Milwaukee teachers make over 100k w/ benefits added, along with decent vacation time for most. Principals, directors, administrators, managers, supervisors, make 100-198k, base salary. With the states being 25th+ in the education world, is throwing big money after 'not so smart' worth it anymore? We toss away more money on education than the military or welfare. Unions in the gov't that can shut down public services at any given moment, not a good thing. Gov't workers are servants to the people, not special or royalty. No need to bail out companies where the union has ruined it, either. Unions suck up taxpayer money, taking it off the top of gov't worker's salaries. Can a worker for the public, taking tax payer money out of the till, be considered in the avg mid class? Strangers were bussed in from all over the states to the Wis capital, making use of squatter's rights in the building, attempting to shut down the government. Trumka became more important to the WH than Joe, Nanc or Harry, close to Soros' importance. What's more disturbing, union teachers and Cairo conversing, cheering one other on. Egypt will eventually be turned over to the Brotherhood. Friendly folks. Well over 60% of Egypt supports them. Notice the heavy presence of Palestinian head dress in the Cairo crowd?'
Code Pinko was in the midst, also. Pinkos unifying with Islam isn't the smartest move. When there is enough weight on their side, it's their way, period. Same way with full fledged communism, like China's and Russia's. Here is a sample of what would come if it takes over. I heard this when I was a kid. If I were lined up in front of the firing squad, along side a traitor of this country, the bullet would hit the traitor before it would me. They know where I stand. They will not trust a traitor. Justice. Yep, mess with the bull, Pinkos, the hard liners will stick it up yo azz. :biglaugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iz3VjoHXLA&feature=player_embedded#at=21

The Noahide rich world elite brought on, supported Lenin, Stalin Mao and Hitler. I feel the main purpose was to rid the Torah believing 12th tribe Jews off the planet. Hatred runs deep. Also, attempts of a world gov't, lining one up. Soros is one of these turds. Noahide is less lenient than, like communism out of Russia. With Noahide and the Talmud, if you're a gentile, you cannot join the mix, period.They have rules as bad as Islam. If you're not born of the blood, tuff hoots. Any race can be in Islam and std communism, like join up. If Islam, std communism or Noahide take over the states, no one is safe from their wrath. Many don't understand the threats.

True though, unions are full of Marxist and Pinkos, traitors to the Bill Of Rights and The Constitution. Just being real.
 
Because of the contract my union negotiated with my employer I get decent wages and medical benefits. As workers, we have guaranteed the employer that we will not go on strike. Other small but important perks of my union is that the company can't arbitrarily cancel my vacation plans which is good after you've just purchased tickets to fly across country. Plus, I won't have to get passed over for promotion because of neputism.

There is a vast number of unions worldwide and the law of averages says that some will be more fair/corrupt than others. The same holds true for governments, religious groups, or even clubs. I think it would be unfair to generalize all as "bad" or "good" because of our own personal experience.

Blaine
 
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