1985 VMAX inspect/replace clutch plate assembly

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Steven May

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Hey guys, just bought an 85, the guy had already been into inspecting the clutch plates, and they were really worn down. On two rings the pad had been worn off to the metal on one side. Watched some videos, and think I am missing the pressure plate? Short of actually buying a repair manual(I will, and which one is best?) can someone point me to an exploded view of the engine, including the clutch basket/plate placement? (and which end does the 1/2 plate go on?) And the steel plates are slightly pitted on a few...should I replace them also? The teeth on them still look good, not worn. Any info I can get would be great! Thanks:)

Whoops, pressure plate present and accounted for.
 
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Where are you? You can add your location under the screen name, go to your control panel.

Blued 'steelies' or smooth-as glass ones need to be replaced (blued, they're overheated, and probably warped, and may-be worn thin beyond spec.) or scuffed with sandpaper or scotchbrite pads (smooth ones, the 'steelies' need some 'tooth' for the friction discs).

Change your oil, you probably have metal particles from your worn-down friction discs now in the oil. Buy OEM Yamaha friction discs, they give good service, and are reasonably-priced. Many people remove the half-width inside friction disc and the 'piano-wire' spacer, and simply add another full-width stock friction disc. The purpose of this was a type of slipper clutch to ease mismatches on downshifting. Just buy the extra friction disc.

VMaxes use a diaphragm spring, not individual coil springs though the Barnett pressure plate does revert to the multiple springs pressure plate design. I have gotten good service from the stock diaphragm spring, and see no reason to change it.

PCW Racing in Schenectady NY sells a kit with the OEM friction discs, a case clutch cover gasket, and you can also buy a heavy-duty diaphragm spring, which won't have you feeling like a cripple if you get-stuck in stop & go traffic. Call them, it's easier than using the website.
http://www.pcwracing.net/

Judging by your new owner report, I would be doing a thorough inspection of all aspects of your bike before trying to use it. Anyone who abuses the bike to the point of wearing-away the friction disc material completely neglected everything-else, too. Are your front forks leaking? If they are, they probably aren't holding any pressure, and air pressure is a big part of the function of stock forks. I don't know your level of abilities, but don't bother to change leaky fork seals if the downtubes are rust-pitted, in the area the fork seals wipe-over, as they will leak again. Really all you can do is to buy replacement downtubes from someone like forking by frank. Re-chroming is probably as-expensive as buying new downtubes. Changing the fork oil and being able to pressurize the forks will make a world of difference in how the front end feels. SInce it's apart, you could also consider different fork springs, and wave-washer cartridges to replace the function of the damper rods. See posts #10 & 11. https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/new-member-got-questions.47768/#post-476106

Look closely at your brakes, and change the fluid, completely. I bet your pads are shot, and maybe the rotors. Ebay has Chinese replacements for the rotors which have been used by many people on here. "Groovy" is bad for rotors.

Change the fluid in the hydraulic clutch, and look under the bike for leakage on the left-side, middle of the engine, where the clutch slave cylinder is, behind the side cover. A re-build of the slave cylinder or replacement may-be in order. Be very-careful when removing the allen screws holding the slave cylinder in-place, if you bugger the allen screw flats, you will be facing a real problem for disassembly.

If you don't have an impact wrench, and I mean a manual one, get one. A 3/8" drive is OK, I prefer 1/2" drive. You do have a ball pein hammer, yes? 'Use the right tool for the job.' An impact driver, a 6" extension and a good-quality allen head socket set will pay for itself many-times over.

If you aren't familiar with the concept of 'reverse-bleeding' you need-to for the sake of easily working on your VMax brakes and clutch hydraulics. They use DOT 3 or 4, or 5.1 brake fluid. DOT 5 is not compatible with those! Reverse-bleeding will give you a firm lever in the shortest-possible time. It will save you frustration and time, and it will return your brakes and clutch to proper operation. When you look into the front brake and clutch master cylinders, there is a big hole in the floor of the reservoir, and in-front of that is a teeny-tiny hole which needs-to be clear of debris, goo, or any other obstruction for you to be able to bleed your brakes or clutch. Only use new fluid, do-not re-use brake fluid.

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/clutch-slave-cylinder-replacement.45011/
 
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Check here for a manual
http://v4musclebike.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9801

Buy OEM frictions, not aftermarket.
Don't use that half disk, replace it with a regular full size friction.
If steel plates are severely pitted, worn thin, blued from heat=replace.
OEM clutch cover gasket. No sealers required if correctly installed.

See attachment. It gives good direction on a clutch service. It also include details on the "DD" clutch mod which is simply stacking the diaphragm springs. I wouldn't recommend that mod though. Eliminating the half disc and the associated parts and replacing with a full size disc will give plenty of bite for casual riders. If you feel the need to increase clutch grip more than that, you can reach out to PCW or Morley's Muscle for a heavy duty clutch diaphragm spring.
 

Attachments

  • VMax - Into The Clutch - LvLHead.pdf
    1.2 MB · Views: 38
Thanks guys,
Thanks for all the info, I will look at the links you sent. Haven't noticed any leakage in the forks, and haven't inspected the brakes yet. I ordered a "chatter spring", is that what you're calling the diaphragm spring? A little confused because the pressure plate has individual springs in it, and no "diaphragm spring was present. mabdcmb sent me a link for a manual I am about to look at as well as a video link for clutch service (thanks mabdcmb!) I do have a couple of manual 1/2 impacts, though my selection of Allen-head attachments is limited...I have noticed no leaks, but the engine was drained prior to my buying it, he drained it to pull the clutch plates. I ordered friction plates (the steel ones still look good, one is slightly pitted but they all cleaned up nicely with a wire wheel. You can still see the divots in the metal), a chatter spring. a water reservoir(has to ship from Japan), new gasket, a battery (although after two days the old one still has 12.5 volts in it), a clip of some sort, a breather tube(?), and something I may be forgetting. The headlights work, the blinkers don't. The servo cycles when the key is turned on, brake light does not come on when I apply hand brake. The ignition seems to work, I just tapped it to see if it would turn over, but no oil in motor so I didn't' even give it a full rotation. I added some info to my profile so ya'll know where I'm at. Stay safe, and thanks again !
PS: I can buy just on friction plate to replace the 1/2 plate?
 
Buy one additional full size friction plate.
See attached.
Remove #4, 5,6,7
Install a full sized friction in place of all that junk.
Replace all the other friction.
Clean up the steel plates

Some people do install a coil spring conversion. Barnett makes an aftermarket kit. You can piece one together with parts from a venture too.
 

Attachments

  • Clutch.pdf
    157.3 KB · Views: 30
hmmm...Im gonna have to wait till I get my parts and see what I have. I don't think I even have 4, 12,13 or 14...5 and 6 I don't think are there either...Im going to go take a pic of what I do have and upload it. Maybe you can tell me what I am missing.
 
ok, here is everything I have. I knew I was missing something with the clutch spring assembly, but it looks like he lost more than that. I'd appreciate your expertise.clutch.JPG
 
Someone installed a coil spring conversion in your bike. Looks like a OEM Yamaha venture pressure plate

Clean the steel plates, install new OEM friction plates, and I'd consider buying heavy duty coil spring replacements for 83 to 85 venture
 
Buy one additional full size friction plate.
See attached.
Remove #4, 5,6,7
Install a full sized friction in place of all that junk.
Replace all the other friction.
Clean up the steel plates

Some people do install a coil spring conversion. Barnett makes an aftermarket kit. You can piece one together with parts from a venture too.

Ok, so I went to pick up some parts(friction plates, diaphragm spring, battery, etc.) and brought it home and now realize that yes they had used parts from a venture...so I have the wrong pressure plate. $47 on bikerbandit, or $9 used on ebay...I've ordered 6 new bolts (2 were missing) and another friction plate. Are there other parts that aren't compatible with the stock set-up? (Like the boss clutch?) If I had realized what I was looking at, I might have just gone with the barnes conversion, or your suggestion about the venture, but now have spent a lump of $ on the stock setup (diaphragm spring-$107), and just kinda want the bike to be truly stock (but I do like the kerker headers!) So other than tossing #4,5,6 and 7, and adding another friction plate, it would be. Is the boss clutch on the venture and vmax the same? And the primary gear (please say yes!)
 
parts so far.jpg friction plates.png So what I have here is 7 full size friction plates and the 1/2 plate (toss?), 7 clutch plates (are they all identical?) pressure plate2, diaphragm spring, housing spring, and the wrong pressure plate1...also a new gasket, and old and new seat plate and #4 clutch boss ring/wire(toss?). With the extra friction plate I ordered, I'll have 8 full sized plates. In the other picture I've tried to point out the difference in these two plates... can you see the arrows at the bottom? One is missing the tong/hump in the middle?? where does that one go? And is it 10, 7 or 9 in the exploded diagram? friction plates.png ... I'm not in a big hurry, my water recovery tank won't ship from japan until late next month (maybe ebay...?), but I am being challenged trying to get all the items necessary to put this back the way it came. I would like to get it together and put oil in it if only to see if it will fire, though. Argh!exploded.png
 
ok, read the shop manual a bit, still haven't figured out how to identify the part number for the friction plate with the wide gap, though. if I toss 4,5,6 and 7 and replace with a full size, do I toss the 1/2 plate and replace with a full size? How many total ...8 full size and the full size with the wide slot? so 9??
 
The friction on the left of the picture is the one normally set to the outboard against the pressure plate. That has a slightly different composition to it. Typically when we replace the frictions we use all #10 plates (no half plate #7) since they go away from the two different full size plate types. So the double hump or single hump instead of notches are correct. In the newer microfiche there is no difference between the #9 and #10 and they eliminated that different plate.
 
one2dmax thank you for that information! I am ordering the correct pressure plate, so when I get my bolts and friction plate I should be able to put it back in. Thanks for all the help everyone!
 
I didn't see any photos of the short clutch pushrod.
I believe that push rod is pressure plate specific. IE, the venture plate requires a different short pushrod than the vmax.
I could be wrong but, I'm 99% sure thats the case.
 
Well thanks for that info mabdcmb, I guess I will find out soon enough, just ordered the pressure plate so I should have all my parts laying out soon. I'll call the yamaha shop and ask about the push rod.
 
The fische tells the story.
1st gen venture '83-85 w/the 1200 motor all use one clutch pushrod with the coil spring pressure plate
2nd gen venture '86-93' use a different push rod with a diaphragm pressure plate. This one interchanges with all 1st gen vmax.
 
Well, since it had a coil spring pressure plate in it, I guess I can assume it came out of a 1st gen. ok, so push rod1 part #36Y-16356-00-00 and hopefully I'll have them all(fingers crossed)
 
I rebuilt my clutch awhile back using friction and steelies from Caltric. They are on ebay right now for 45.60 including the gasket.
I routinely take off in 2nd gear, hold the bike at stop lights with the clutch and have other bad clutch habits and have had no issues
with the brand. I also have a Caltric stator and carb boots. Great replacement brand for half the OEM cost.
 
The Venture coil conversion uses four parts to the push rod. One is a cup that pressed into the bearing. Then a short push rod, ball, and long pushrod.
The Vmax uses three. The short pushrod has a flange built into that fits into the bearing, then the ball, and then the long pushrod (note that on either pushrod the rounded end goes into the engine first (and eventually is pushed by the slave), the flat end goes against the ball.
You can swap either push rod system to either pressure plate.
The Venture coil conversion is most similar to the Barnett that a lot of people like to convert to on the Vmax and you can even get Barnett springs to get a heavier holding power.
I'd cancel the order for the standard pressure plate (which uses a different inner basket too by the way) and keep your coil spring conversion.
Perhaps ordering through someone like me would keep you from spending money you didn't have to.
 

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