6 pot vs stock 4 pot and USD frontends

[customizedcreationz]

I am really on the fence about what I want to do with my max this winter.

I planned on doing USD triples, most likely just because I can and I would like to. But I am also wondering, how much does that really affect the handling if you DONT go with 17" wheels and new radials.

Lets say you go with stock wheels for the look of the original V Max. I know obviously with radials, you will get better tire selection, which in turn means you will most likely get better gripping tires, which means the bike will handle.

But my question is, how much better. If your not a back road twistie sport rider, is the USD and 17" radial tires a way bigger improvement over a good set of stock forks properly setup and a good set of tires ( say the Shinko's I have now I really like the way they feel ).

The real bang for the buck. I figure my machine time , cad time, design and prototype time, materials etc, easily would hit $2500 to produce a USD triple setup. Obviously if I make a set for myself, I am going to make a set or two to sell and try and recoup my money I invested into my set.

So coming back aroudn to my point. Bang for buck. If your not going to put your knee down in the twisties, I ask the following questions.


1 Is it worthwhile to go USD with stock Vmax wheels to retain the factory type look?

2 Is it worthwhile to go USD with 17" factory GSXR type wheels and tires and brakes?

3 Is putting new springs and revalving the stock forks and going with 6 pot calipers ( FZR ) worth while improvement over stock?

So lets say rate it 1 to 10. 10 being awesome. 1 being dismal.

And then rate the cost 1 to 10. 10 being not worth the money vs performance achieved and 1 being more bang for the buck for the performance achieved.

I guess I am just trying to get real world input. I am not a huge twistie rider on this bike.

Thanks
Todd

 

[gamorg02]

I am really on the fence about what I want to do with my max this winter.

I planned on doing USD triples, most likely just because I can and I would like to. But I am also wondering, how much does that really affect the handling if you DONT go with 17" wheels and new radials.

Lets say you go with stock wheels for the look of the original V Max. I know obviously with radials, you will get better tire selection, which in turn means you will most likely get better gripping tires, which means the bike will handle.

But my question is, how much better. If your not a back road twistie sport rider, is the USD and 17" radial tires a way bigger improvement over a good set of stock forks properly setup and a good set of tires ( say the Shinko's I have now I really like the way they feel ).

The real bang for the buck. I figure my machine time , cad time, design and prototype time, materials etc, easily would hit $2500 to produce a USD triple setup. Obviously if I make a set for myself, I am going to make a set or two to sell and try and recoup my money I invested into my set.

So coming back aroudn to my point. Bang for buck. If your not going to put your knee down in the twisties, I ask the following questions.


1 Is it worthwhile to go USD with stock Vmax wheels to retain the factory type look?

2 Is it worthwhile to go USD with 17" factory GSXR type wheels and tires and brakes?

3 Is putting new springs and revalving the stock forks and going with 6 pot calipers ( FZR ) worth while improvement over stock?

So lets say rate it 1 to 10. 10 being awesome. 1 being dismal.

And then rate the cost 1 to 10. 10 being not worth the money vs performance achieved and 1 being more bang for the buck for the performance achieved.

I guess I am just trying to get real world input. I am not a huge twistie rider on this bike.

Thanks
Todd

i've never done a USD front but i'll try to answer from my radial conversion findings:

1. I wouldn't because radials not only offer more selection (arguable perhaps) but they are better tires and the handling difference is night and day.

2. lots of guys run thundercat (yzf600) conversion to 17". thats what COO sells and i haven't heard anything bad about that size except for increased rpms per speed and the speedo being off

3. i'd just get some nice EBC hh pads, keep the stock setup and grab some radial rim(s).

not sure how to rate on your scale tho. i haven't tried upgraded braking system but mine stops 2 fingers. i don't ride twisties either really but just the general stability of radials and frame braces seems worth it to me.

i'd love to do a USD front end but for the cost of cazz rims to us non-fabricators i'd say its a like to vs a need knowing what i know now

i hope this helps?

 

[donnelly317]

I got fzr 6 pots and love them. Major difference I can stop on a dime and the brake feel is amazing compared to stock.. but like gamorg said alot of people say its a huge improvement with HH pads but I don't think ull get the feel like the fzr/yzf ones

 

[MaxMidnight]

Like Mr Gamorg I haven't done a USD front end but I know someone who has and has also run with better springs and emulators.

In his opinion the uprated OE front was at least as good or even slightly better than the USD.
When cost is taken into consideration (IMHO) there is no contest.

The money you save by not going USD could be invested in some decent rear shocks and solid mounts.
If you aren't wedded to the original wheels then a set of 17"er's will transform the handling.

 

[customizedcreationz]

I am doing better rear shocks anyways, not sure how soon. Solid motor mounts I am not sure about. I ve run solid mounts in my drag car and that thing was like the hammers of hell when you shifted. You felt the torque of the motor hard core. I am not sure I want that in the bike. The vibration might be crappy on longer rides. That is one thing I am concerned about on solid mounts.

But that kinda is my thought on the USD vs Factory front end with upgrades.

How far can you really push this bike vs the cost to get it to that last 1 percent lean angle, or that last mph you can push into a turn. $3000 for each mph ? To me its not worth that much, I would settle for 1 mph less and have $3000 in my pocket LOL.

Thanks
Todd

 

[CaptainKyle]

I am doing better rear shocks anyways, not sure how soon. Solid motor mounts I am not sure about. I ve run solid mounts in my drag car and that thing was like the hammers of hell when you shifted. You felt the torque of the motor hard core. I am not sure I want that in the bike. The vibration might be crappy on longer rides. That is one thing I am concerned about on solid mounts.

But that kinda is my thought on the USD vs Factory front end with upgrades.

How far can you really push this bike vs the cost to get it to that last 1 percent lean angle, or that last mph you can push into a turn. $3000 for each mph ? To me its not worth that much, I would settle for 1 mph less and have $3000 in my pocket LOL.

Thanks
Todd

I personally have not done the conversion but have rode a few Max's with it & I was not impressed any more than with a well set up stock front end. Yes they look cool but I am not paying that much for looks plus I am always trying to drop weight off the bike not gain it so its stock forks for me. I would fix your stock front end & put radials on it they make a night & day diffrence. Even though I sell the solid mounts I think the frame braces do just as good of a job & are much easier to install but they are deffinately more expensive.

 

[donnelly317]

I am doing better rear shocks anyways, not sure how soon. Solid motor mounts I am not sure about. I ve run solid mounts in my drag car and that thing was like the hammers of hell when you shifted. You felt the torque of the motor hard core. I am not sure I want that in the bike. The vibration might be crappy on longer rides. That is one thing I am concerned about on solid mounts.

But that kinda is my thought on the USD vs Factory front end with upgrades.

How far can you really push this bike vs the cost to get it to that last 1 percent lean angle, or that last mph you can push into a turn. $3000 for each mph ? To me its not worth that much, I would settle for 1 mph less and have $3000 in my pocket LOL.

Thanks
Todd

Solid mounts on my bike I feel no vibration other than being in like 3 or 4 gear going slow then trying to gain speed with out shifting has some vibration but I just down shift more

 

[gamorg02]

for what its worth i have frame braces and solid mounts and would never do mounts again. too much vibes. frame braces are easier and easily reversable (bolt ons).

 

[Rollie]

All tuned & modified Vmaxes are stoplight to stoplight quick . The older vmaxes are quick , but don't stop and handle very well . The newer Gen 1s stop and handle much better than older ones . You can upgrade front ends with better brakes from Sean and others , and Progressive and Race Tech aftermarket springs , emulators , etc. and have a better handling Vmax .

Sportbikes are quick and stop and handle very well. They predominately have much better brakes and USD front ends , which are vastly superior to stock vmaxes , especially the older Gen 1s .

If you never need to stop quickly or dodge something in the turn or straight roadway , great , keep yours stock . I want to be able to stop and turn better than a newer Gen 1 with my older Gen 1 .I may never put a knee down , but Damn , if I need to stop right now or lay it over a little more in a turn to avoid a potential deal killer , I would like to think my bike will handle it without crashing. Price is a definate factor , but my life is also in the mix.

I.M.H.O. Save up . Get the best you can afford .

Newer Gen 1 - '98 ---------- Older Gen 1 - '90

 

[sdt354]

I am doing better rear shocks anyways, not sure how soon. Solid motor mounts I am not sure about. I ve run solid mounts in my drag car and that thing was like the hammers of hell when you shifted. You felt the torque of the motor hard core. I am not sure I want that in the bike. The vibration might be crappy on longer rides. That is one thing I am concerned about on solid mounts.

But that kinda is my thought on the USD vs Factory front end with upgrades.

How far can you really push this bike vs the cost to get it to that last 1 percent lean angle, or that last mph you can push into a turn. $3000 for each mph ? To me its not worth that much, I would settle for 1 mph less and have $3000 in my pocket LOL.

Thanks
Todd

HH pads are cost effective for later models with 4 pot calipers. The 6 pots are better I'm sure. Caliper upgrade is a must do for the early ones. Radials are a huge bang for the buck along with suspension upgrades.
USD? I'm going to ask a lot of questions from guys that did it before I commit. It looks awesome though.
Steve-o

 

[Fire-medic]

Your two Gen. 1's are both great lookin' bikes, but it appears that you could have bought a used Gen.2 for what you have in the two of 'em, or come awfully-close to it! I keep getting told by my wife I have too-many bikes, and then I see your list and I don't feel so bad!

I have been collecting parts for my VMax, a few of-which have been installed, a bunch more which have not. I like a fairly-stock-appearing bike because if you can embarrass somebody w/skillful use of your 'Max, it's always great to be able to claim, "yeah, it's stock!" Of course, the inference here is that it Must be the vehicle operator, and not the bike which makes the difference!

I do like to see the things that people come-up-with, even if the response is, "not for me!" When Sean writes about his big inch modded motors, or our Portugal friend makes another mod, or Prez machines a doodad, it adds to the database, and we all like to see the ideas turned into reality.

My local garage operator Steve (Under Pressure, Dania Beach FL) who has made our mutual acquaintance Billy's 1500 cc vMax ground-pounder the terror of the local Hyabusas contingent, until around 115 mph anyway, is always good for a chat-up, and he has plenty of experience in building reliable performance rides whether you ride along A1A to check-out the bikinis, or take it to West Palm Beach Dragway for quarter-mile runs, or nighttime clandestine contests. You know the VMax is fast when a rider used to flogging 6 second 1/4-milers tells you it was!

I don't expect to ever spend the big bucks to end up w/a bike like Rollie's, but I am content to enjoy a reliable and accessible ride which just may surprise a few of the less-talented riders w/the newest, greatest rides their credit can afford. Especially when the looks don't say otherwise! In WW II the navy called them, "Q-ships."

http://www.war44.com/united-states-sea/257-q-ships.html

http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/reading_qships.htm

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq111-1.htm

All tuned & modified Vmaxes are stoplight to stoplight quick . The older vmaxes are quick , but don't stop and handle very well . The newer Gen 1s stop and handle much better than older ones . You can upgrade front ends with better brakes from Sean and others , and Progressive and Race Tech aftermarket springs , emulators , etc. and have a better handling Vmax .

Sportbikes are quick and stop and handle very well. They predominately have much better brakes and USD front ends , which are vastly superior to stock vmaxes , especially the older Gen 1s .

If you never need to stop quickly or dodge something in the turn or straight roadway , great , keep yours stock . I want to be able to stop and turn better than a newer Gen 1 with my older Gen 1 .I may never put a knee down , but Damn , if I need to stop right now or lay it over a little more in a turn to avoid a potential deal killer , I would like to think my bike will handle it without crashing. Price is a definate factor , but my life is also in the mix.

I.M.H.O. Save up . Get the best you can afford .

Newer Gen 1 - '98 ---------- Older Gen 1 - '90

 

[Redbone]

I throw my 2 cents in to add to the stock forks but having never ridden a sport bike'd front end on a Max.
My front end is of the older vintage ('92) that has progressive springs (lowered 2" internally) and the Ricor Intiminator valves. I do want to add the adjustable preload adapters to the forks in the near future. There is no comparison to the way my forks work now towhat they were stock! No more diving under braking, bottoming out on corner bumps, or a general bad ride.
I am also going to add Carrozzeria 18" wheels with Shinko Verge 011's radials this next week and if all goes well(!) I will let you know how it works the following weekend on the Leelanau ride.
I also went from stock pads to HH pads/ larger rotors(298mm) then on to 6 pot w/ HH pads and I could not be better pleased with how the brakes work now. Two finger braking with all and more power to bring the Vmax to stop on par with a '03 fz1, which will only get better with the addition of the grippy Shinko radials.