A/F Needles

[jwood]

I am getting ready to replace my corrosion infested AF needles, do i need to drain the bowls first? If the needles don't come out I know I can blow some air down the PAJ to set them free, but can this be done "without" disassembly of the diaphragm covers and removing the slides first?

 

[Traumahawk]

So are they stuck in the carbs? as long as the slides move...then you know that the needles arent stuck. Or are these carbs sitting off in the corner...and gotten corroded?

To get the needles out the ONLY way, is to take the covers off, and take the slides out. There is a screw inside of the slide to take out, and then the needle..etc...will fall out.

 

[jwood]

So are they stuck in the carbs? as long as the slides move...then you know that the needles arent stuck. Or are these carbs sitting off in the corner...and gotten corroded?

To get the needles out the ONLY way, is to take the covers off, and take the slides out. There is a screw inside of the slide to take out, and then the needle..etc...will fall out.

They are not stuck, but when you unscrew them all the way out i need all the pieces to come out, can i blow air to pop them into my hand with out removing the diaphragm covers? And draining the bowls?

 

[Rusty McNeil]

So are they stuck in the carbs? as long as the slides move...then you know that the needles arent stuck. Or are these carbs sitting off in the corner...and gotten corroded?

To get the needles out the ONLY way, is to take the covers off, and take the slides out. There is a screw inside of the slide to take out, and then the needle..etc...will fall out.

I think he's talking about the a/f screw-needle adjustment, not the slide needles??

 

[Rusty McNeil]

To remove the a/f needles, assuming they will unscrew, just unscrew them all the way and

Left side; on side stand, tap on carbs and hopefully they'll fall out.
Right side, same thing but get a friend to help you lean it to the right.

The above is if your lucky.

Also can try a very small holding screwdriver found at electronics stores.

Or one of the ports in top of the carb, do not know which one, can be blown into with compressed air and blow them out.

There is also a spring a washer and a tiny o ring too which 90% of the time I have needed a small set of picks to get out. Especially the o ring.

I amost always have to go back in after the o ring with a pick tool. Occasionally it will come out with the whole assembly but for me I'm usually not that lucky.

Use a magnifying glass and light and make damn sure you do not have an o ring stuck in there, crumpled up sideways etc before installing new ones, that'll screw the pooch in the idle circuit. A sideways o ring will plug the whole circuit.

If you have some finesse and learn what "feels right" you can usually feel if the oring isn't sitting properly.

I usually stack the spring washer and I ring on the needle using some light oil so they will stay put and slide it all in at once. If you start in with it and withdraw any at all before engaging the threads you can almost guarantee the o ring is going to end up not being in its proper position, so go straight in all at once in one gentle smooth motion.

If they really are corroded I would recommend pulling the carbs and do a full rebuild anyway, which with them off the bike the a/f needles are much easier to remove.

 

[jwood]

To remove the a/f needles, assuming they will unscrew, just unscrew them all the way and

Left side; on side stand, tap on carbs and hopefully they'll fall out.
Right side, same thing but get a friend to help you lean it to the right.

The above is if your lucky.

Also can try a very small holding screwdriver found at electronics stores.

Or one of the ports in top of the carb, do not know which one, can be blown into with compressed air and blow them out.

There is also a spring a washer and a tiny o ring too which 90% of the time I have needed a small set of picks to get out. Especially the o ring.

Use a magnifying glass and light and make damn sure you do not have an o ring stuck in there, crumpled up sideways etc before installing new ones, that'll screw the pooch in the idle circuit.

If they really are corroded I would recommend pulling the carbs and do a full rebuild anyway, which with them off the bike the a/f needles are much easier to remove.

Thanks Rusty...

 

[Rusty McNeil]

The pick you want is going to be almost straight with just the slightest bend at the very tip. Be gentle so you do not tear the o ring.

Maybe someone else knows which port to blow in from the top and will chime in.

 

[Traumahawk]

The pick you want is going to be almost straight with just the slightest bend at the very tip. Be gentle so you do not tear the o ring.

Maybe someone else knows which port to blow in from the top and will chime in.

LOL...sorry....Those are the needles (slide needles) that I think of first.

I believe its PAJ 1.

http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/shotgun.htm

 

[2fear]

This should help. To remove your idle mixture screws, hold your thumb over half of the mixture screw hole opening, and out about 2 mm.

Direct a blast of air down PAJ1.

If the mixture screw was backed out enough off of the threads, it will hit your thumb and stop, allowing you to grab a hold of it for removal.

You should get the screw, a spring a small washer and an o-ring. If you don't get the o-ring, try putting the red carb cleaner straw down the hole and blast more air down PAJ1.

 

[2fear]

There are pictures also if needed, just scroll down a little until you get to the section of a/f removal. Here is the link . .http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/shotgun.htm

 

[jwood]

This should help. To remove your idle mixture screws, hold your thumb over half of the mixture screw hole opening, and out about 2 mm.

Direct a blast of air down PAJ1.

If the mixture screw was backed out enough off of the threads, it will hit your thumb and stop, allowing you to grab a hold of it for removal.

You should get the screw, a spring a small washer and an o-ring. If you don't get the o-ring, try putting the red carb cleaner straw down the hole and blast more air down PAJ1.

I have had them out before, question is do i need to drain the bowls and remove the diaphragm prior to blowing air down the PAJ?

 

[2fear]

I would, I would also do the shotgun method as long as I'm there. If your needles are corroded chances are your idle circuit looks the same. It only take a little longer, then you have a good piece of mind.

 

[alorio1]

No, but I just wanted to add check the length of of the a/f screws with the others to make sure Po has not over tightened the screw and broke the tip off in the a/f seat.

 

[[email protected]]

I've had issues with that oring myself. I've got a few picks to choose from but enxex up using the straw off a can of carb cleaner. I flattened the end with my linesman pliers then bent a tiny 90 at the end. It pulled the oring right out.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Miles Long]

If memory serves me correctly, I believe someone, perhaps Rhoy Carter(R.I.P.), once said that an ordinary drinking straw can be used to coax the needles out, after they have been unscrewed from their seats. Just the right inside diameter, apparently. Maybe a dab of grease in the straw would add even more stickion?
Cheers!

 

[Rusty McNeil]

If memory serves me correctly, I believe someone, perhaps Rhoy Carter(R.I.P.), once said that an ordinary drinking straw can be used to coax the needles out, after they have been unscrewed from their seats. Just the right inside diameter, apparently. Maybe a dab of grease in the straw would add even more stickion?
Cheers!

That's an excellent idea, and sounds like an old timers trick Rhoy would have suggested.

I miss shooting the shit on the phone and in person with Rhoy, God rest his soul, he was a gentlemen's gentlemen...

 

[jwood]

I would, I would also do the shotgun method as long as I'm there. If your needles are corroded chances are your idle circuit looks the same. It only take a little longer, then you have a good piece of mind.

I just did the shot gun last week, that's when I found the corroded AF springs.. Just received new ones in the mail.. I was hoping not to have to tear it all back down to replace them...

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I just did the shot gun last week, that's when I found the corroded AF springs.. Just received new ones in the mail.. I was hoping not to have to tear it all back down to replace them...

If you have blow it out good with the shotgun you can just install them without a teardown.

In answer to your question you don't need to remove anything other than the a/f needles to replace the a/f needles. The diaphragm covers and bowls shouldn't need messing with.

Although I might think pulling the covers, diaphragms and opening the drain screws and removing the PAJ 1 & 2 might be a good idea while doing a thorough shotgun to make sure any trash has a way to escape:ummm:

 

[jwood]

If you have blow it out good with the shotgun you can just install them without a teardown.

In answer to your question you don't need to remove anything other than the a/f needles to replace the a/f needles. The diaphragm covers and bowls shouldn't need messing with.

Although I might think pulling the covers, diaphragms and opening the drain screws and removing the PAJ 1 & 2 might be a good idea while doing a thorough shotgun to make sure any trash has a way to escape:ummm:

Probably a good Idea, I will just do a who new shot gun process and replaced the needles and o-rings at that time to be sure its all clean...

 

[m-cman]

If they are in any way stuck, shoot some type of corrosion remover into the holes and let sit for a while. The screw tips are very easy to round off then you have a whole different set of problems!!!