annoying tuner giving my VMax shi!

[sidwin]

so i went and helped a friend dropped off his vtx1800 when the tuner ask me what i ride and i said an fz1 and vmax. he said vmax is biggest pos eva. he said the engine doesn't have proper thrust washers on the crank and therefore if there is a problem with the engine then everything has to be tossed. he said oil problems and 2nd gear is also retarded. he's old time drag racer and honestly i don't think he knows anything but to ride straight. i told him to fix the oil problem, we put a thicker washer there. i said to 2nd gear is a known problem in lots of bikes but i for one haven't had a problem with my bike and i road 2500 miles last year alone. i said where else can you get a 10 sec bike made in 1982. he goes off and tells me how he has 7 sec bikes blah blah blah. i have a 850 hp car that i never drive, i don't need a bike that i can't ride either i told him...

so it that true about the thrust washer on the crank or lacking of? once i fixed the oil pick up i thought that pretty much fixed the engine problems or did i miss something?

 

[[email protected]]

While I wouldn't call it a common problem, I can say that I've read about the vmax spinning a bearing more than a handful of times. Here is one post from Sean indicating what may happen to the engine:

"The rod may not show visible damage but it will be out of round. It will need reconditioned which Carrillo can do (and we can have done with our account or you can send it in direct). The crank can be repaired (we can also have that done) or it can be replaced with a good used crank.

The biggest thing to check is the block. They tend to destroy or the crank thrust surface. Check the upper case half where the crank is retained from moving side to side. If this surface is damaged it will need to be repaired which is not a simple job. Again we can do that but it's sometimes cheaper to simply replace the block."

2nd gear is sore spot.

It has issues with the oil delivery piping. Hence the pop stopper kit, the hd oiling kit, the engine saver bracket, and PCW's oil piping replacement. The dreaded orange o ring has a bad reputation.

Sounds to me like the guy has at least a little knowledge about the vmax. If you look at it from the perspective of a drag racer the vmax really is not all that great of a bike. KZ's and GS based drag bikes can be build stronger, faster, and cheaper. They will be more reliable with less break downs compared to a vmax. No and, ifs, or buts about it. Thats life. The vmax is heavy, it has a shaft drive, it has the downfalls mentioned above, and the aftermarket for major engine mods is not all that varied and prices are HIGH.

If you are not out there shooting for single digit ET's then by all means, its a great bike to ride the streets and hit the strip. IF you are expecting to go out and run 9's on a vmax you've best make some mods to the bike and open up your wallet.

 

[satariel666]

While I wouldn't call it a common problem, I can say that I've read about the vmax spinning a bearing more than a handful of times. Here is one post from Sean indicating what may happen to the engine:

"The rod may not show visible damage but it will be out of round. It will need reconditioned which Carrillo can do (and we can have done with our account or you can send it in direct). The crank can be repaired (we can also have that done) or it can be replaced with a good used crank.

The biggest thing to check is the block. They tend to destroy or the crank thrust surface. Check the upper case half where the crank is retained from moving side to side. If this surface is damaged it will need to be repaired which is not a simple job. Again we can do that but it's sometimes cheaper to simply replace the block."

2nd gear is sore spot.

It has issues with the oil delivery piping. Hence the pop stopper kit, the hd oiling kit, the engine saver bracket, and PCW's oil piping replacement. The dreaded orange o ring has a bad reputation.

Sounds to me like the guy has at least a little knowledge about the vmax. If you look at it from the perspective of a drag racer the vmax really is not all that great of a bike. KZ's and GS based drag bikes can be build stronger, faster, and cheaper. They will be more reliable with less break downs compared to a vmax. No and, ifs, or buts about it. Thats life. The vmax is heavy, it has a shaft drive, it has the downfalls mentioned above, and the aftermarket for major engine mods is not all that varied and prices are HIGH.

If you are not out there shooting for single digit ET's then by all means, its a great bike to ride the streets and hit the strip. IF you are expecting to go out and run 9's on a vmax you've best make some mods to the bike and open up your wallet.

Totally agree!
About the engine - it seems that most crank failures are related to oil film lags - it happens at lower rpms when the engine was not properly warmed up and where the oil volume is not sufficient. It can be eleminated by some oiling mods and and oil pump gearing.
Another weak spot - the lower end which is "only PRE-balanced". After weak oiling - vibrations are placed on second place...IMO.
Third place goes to fuel delivery - carbs not properly maintained will shorten its life. I would dare to say CARBS are harmfull for engines no matter in what condition they are.

Also v-max has some common electrical problems.
But for a bike developed almost 30 years ago - its doing quite fine and its still respectfull vehicle on the street.

 

[4gasem]

It was such a piece of shit, so they only made them 22 years...

 

[dannymax]

It was such a piece of shit, so they only made them 22 years...

Yeah, with such a limited production run, how could anyone make ANY kind of assessment on the V Max? :biglaugh:

I don't really cane how the bike performs on the strip, I don't race....but, Zak seems to be doing pretty well with his V Max, and I don't see him sweeping up parts after every run!

All my riding is done on the street and AFAIC the V Max is (after a little tweaking) a great 'roadable & driveable' machine. Properly maintained and driven reasonably these bikes will perform for many, many years without issue. For every bike with the o-ring squished out there are probly a dozen that ran 75K - 100K with no more attention than gas, oil & tires....you just don't hear from those guys, they're out riding! unk:

 

[tugla]

not only the limited 22yr run dan-o but what about the fact they were to scared to make any changes to the bike:rofl_200:

what other bike gives you a smile every time you twist your wrist, the sound of the v4 at 7-8000 is just in that sweet spot. for every opinion like that guys there are tons on complements from others that just drool when they see it sitting there.

 

[sdt354]

so i went and helped a friend dropped off his vtx1800 when the tuner ask me what i ride and i said an fz1 and vmax. he said vmax is biggest pos eva. he said the engine doesn't have proper thrust washers on the crank and therefore if there is a problem with the engine then everything has to be tossed. he said oil problems and 2nd gear is also retarded. he's old time drag racer and honestly i don't think he knows anything but to ride straight. i told him to fix the oil problem, we put a thicker washer there. i said to 2nd gear is a known problem in lots of bikes but i for one haven't had a problem with my bike and i road 2500 miles last year alone. i said where else can you get a 10 sec bike made in 1982. he goes off and tells me how he has 7 sec bikes blah blah blah. i have a 850 hp car that i never drive, i don't need a bike that i can't ride either i told him...

so it that true about the thrust washer on the crank or lacking of? once i fixed the oil pick up i thought that pretty much fixed the engine problems or did i miss something?

For sure we have our issues, like most machines do. All can be fixed, unlike HIS nasty disposition. I like all motorcycles and really don't like to hear any of them, espessially mine, called a p.o.s.
Is the washer, I assume on the pressure relief spring, the only thing ya did to fix the oil problem?
Maybe smart ass can get a job with Yamaha since he knows everything they did wrong.
Steve-o

 

[DakRatFink]

Wasn't the dreaded oil O-ring issue fixed on later models? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Wasn't the dreaded oil O-ring issue fixed on later models? Or am I mistaken?

In a manner of speaking, yes. There are those of the opinion that the o-ring issue was more than a little overblown, but I would imagine that those who had engine issues would disagree:confused2:

 

[SpecOps13]

I replaced the O-Rings in both of mine. The least likely one, the 94 was popped out of place and the 89 was in place solidly. I think PO updated the plumbing on it though. Now both have Kawi O-Rings...

 

[maxcruiser]

While I wouldn't call it a common problem, I can say that I've read about the vmax spinning a bearing more than a handful of times. Here is one post from Sean indicating what may happen to the engine:

"The rod may not show visible damage but it will be out of round. It will need reconditioned which Carrillo can do (and we can have done with our account or you can send it in direct). The crank can be repaired (we can also have that done) or it can be replaced with a good used crank.

The biggest thing to check is the block. They tend to destroy or the crank thrust surface. Check the upper case half where the crank is retained from moving side to side. If this surface is damaged it will need to be repaired which is not a simple job. Again we can do that but it's sometimes cheaper to simply replace the block."

2nd gear is sore spot.

It has issues with the oil delivery piping. Hence the pop stopper kit, the hd oiling kit, the engine saver bracket, and PCW's oil piping replacement. The dreaded orange o ring has a bad reputation.

Sounds to me like the guy has at least a little knowledge about the vmax. If you look at it from the perspective of a drag racer the vmax really is not all that great of a bike. KZ's and GS based drag bikes can be build stronger, faster, and cheaper. They will be more reliable with less break downs compared to a vmax. No and, ifs, or buts about it. Thats life. The vmax is heavy, it has a shaft drive, it has the downfalls mentioned above, and the aftermarket for major engine mods is not all that varied and prices are HIGH.

If you are not out there shooting for single digit ET's then by all means, its a great bike to ride the streets and hit the strip. IF you are expecting to go out and run 9's on a vmax you've best make some mods to the bike and open up your wallet.

Well said Mike!

The Vmax is what it is, a 25 year old design that was the king of the hill for many years and is now been surpassed by many other bikes, but it is still a fun cruiser bike with more than enough power for the street riding.

Mike

 

[dannymax]

Wasn't the dreaded oil O-ring issue fixed on later models? Or am I mistaken?

Not sure when Yamaha addressed the o-ring situation....think it was in the late 90's, '98, '99...maybe? Their 'fix' was not a guarantee the o-ring would NEVER squish out, but if the bike is warmed up properly and not over-revved, it's highly unlikely there will ever be an o-ring problem.

The damaging hi-revs do not have to be performed on a regular basis either....one missed shift, with the tach zinging up to 10,500 or 11,000, could blow it out! :bang head:

 

[KJShover]

Besides, how can you hate the sound of that Vmax V4 :confused2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0PvJL877BQ

 

[dannymax]

Oooo, that sounds good KJ!! :thumbs up:

 

[KJShover]

Oooo, that sounds good KJ!! :thumbs up:

Thanks danny, I'm thinking about altering the exhaust over the winter. The flow should stay the same, if not improve a little. But it should bring the sound 110%.

I was talking with the owner of a custom shop in town and he is on the agreement side. So I'm going to pull the midpipe and the muffler when I park it, and then drop it off to him so he has a shape template to work from.

They do great work. Theve put full exhausts on my old Ramcharger and my truck, as well as a custom Cat back system for the big block in the old chrysler crown coupe.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

While I wouldn't call it a common problem, I can say that I've read about the vmax spinning a bearing more than a handful of times. Here is one post from Sean indicating what may happen to the engine:

"The rod may not show visible damage but it will be out of round. It will need reconditioned which Carrillo can do (and we can have done with our account or you can send it in direct). The crank can be repaired (we can also have that done) or it can be replaced with a good used crank.

The biggest thing to check is the block. They tend to destroy or the crank thrust surface. Check the upper case half where the crank is retained from moving side to side. If this surface is damaged it will need to be repaired which is not a simple job. Again we can do that but it's sometimes cheaper to simply replace the block."

2nd gear is sore spot.

It has issues with the oil delivery piping. Hence the pop stopper kit, the hd oiling kit, the engine saver bracket, and PCW's oil piping replacement. The dreaded orange o ring has a bad reputation.

Sounds to me like the guy has at least a little knowledge about the vmax. If you look at it from the perspective of a drag racer the vmax really is not all that great of a bike. KZ's and GS based drag bikes can be build stronger, faster, and cheaper. They will be more reliable with less break downs compared to a vmax. No and, ifs, or buts about it. Thats life. The vmax is heavy, it has a shaft drive, it has the downfalls mentioned above, and the aftermarket for major engine mods is not all that varied and prices are HIGH.

If you are not out there shooting for single digit ET's then by all means, its a great bike to ride the streets and hit the strip. IF you are expecting to go out and run 9's on a vmax you've best make some mods to the bike and open up your wallet.

He sounds like he hit all the high points of the vmax's weakness's, indicating he's not totally ignorant about it.... But his delivery could use some work..what's the word I'm looking for...Oh I found it...Dickhead...

If he's a drag racer and sunk serious bucks trying to go fast with it then he prolly should feel this way..He prolly went broke trying to get in to the 9's....The Max motor is certainly not the best motor ever built..

...I myself have NEVER understood why the oil pipe in question wasn't a machined fit. bolted together piece rather than what it is...Seriously; WTF were they thinking?. From a general design standpoint the oil pipe is a complete failure considering it's so crucial to the engine...........It would have been so easy to fix the right way with no possibilty of ever failing with some simple tooling changes.....but overall I think it's a little of an overblown issue......it's really kind of rare really....

The crank thrust thing I'm aware of but have no idea how other bikes deal with this..But the statement is true.......

It certainly ain't like a1st gen small block chevy where the total design became a virtually "failure point" proof design...... I do mean vitrually because every engine has a weak point if pushed hard enough but the Kaw and Sux motors would bear that comparison much better...

2nd gear weakness is not unusual on a LOT of bikes, but the early Max was exceptionally prone to this way more than it should have been.......Since then I don't think it's any weaker than any other bike, even Busa's blow 2nd if they blow any gear at all....

I do agree with the fact that simply by surviving 22 years speaks incredibly well for it's overall soundness of design.......how many bikes can say that????

 

[bobzdar]

I do agree with the fact that simply by surviving 22 years speaks incredibly well for it's overall soundness of design.......how many bikes can say that????

Pretty much every Harley, so I don't know if I'd use that argument...

 

[[email protected]]

No sense in worrying about this guys opinion. That's all it is, an opinion. Like rusty said, if you look at any bike, or car, you can find a weakness, something that should or could be better. Its much easier to find these flaws if your personal taste is not in favor of the machine in question.

 

[satariel666]

Pretty much every Harley, so I don't know if I'd use that argument...

Pretty much every Hardley model which is not the same as v-max.
Hardley "stalls" with his overpriced "so called cult" and doing the same engines for half of century - I would't call that a legend!

 

[sidwin]

he said the lack of the thrust washer makes the motor shake upon upshift and downshift and that what makes our cranks destroy our blocks. He's going on how he built bikes that can spin the dyno all day at 200RWHP. I laugh and tell him i got a car i built put down over 700RWHP on stock motor so what's the point .. i've built plenty of cars and my garage queen has 850HP. i told him i wanted a bike i could ride confident ride anywhere and not worry about breaking down. i have an fz1 but when all of your friends ride cruisers what would u rather be on when u're riding together?

yeah i was fN annoyed to say the least. he's going on and on about busa and i ask him to name me a stock cruiser bike today that can beat me or a new vmax and his answer is vmax isn't a cruiser. FN douchebag. i love how they hate on us and always say we're not in their class... i guess they are right... we're in a class of our own.