Any HVAC heating guys in the house ?

[customizedcreationz]

I am looking at putting a radiant heater in the shop. A 60 foot long one would cover the length of the open shop area. 200,000 btu is what they recommended.

My question is that I really don't need to heat the back half of the shop as much as the front half. With a radiant heater in just the area that we use most, be beneficial? Or is it going to constantly run trying to keep up?

So lets say a 40 foot one just over the area we work. 125,000 btu ?

Or would I be better to just put the 200,000 btu one in and heat the whole shop overall?

The main area is 60x40 that is open. The rest of the shop I am not concerned about. 27 foot tall ceilings as well. The main area we work in is about 20x40. If I just heat that part, am I am always going to have the cold draft feeling from the part I don't heat and if so, will it make the 20x40 area constantly run?

So I run a 60 foot the length of the shop in the center line ( in the x axis ), or can I run a 40 foot the opposite direction (in the y axis ) ?

Just looking for some tips "not" from the guys trying to sell me a heater LOL.

Thanks
Todd

 

[jfeagins]

If I just heat that part, am I am always going to have the cold draft feeling from the part I don't heat and if so, will it make the 20x40 area constantly run? Todd

Yes. Unless you install some sort of curtains or other divider between the two areas.

just my two cents. (prolly only worth 1/2 cent):biglaugh:

 

[maxcruiser]

A separation wall of some type would be need from unheated to heated section.

I have never been a fan of the tube style radiant heaters to heat large garages/warehouse. They produce heat that is above you and seeing that heat rises, therefore the heat produced needs to cool to come down.

To me they are not the most efficient source of heat - just my 2cents

Mike

 

[one2dmax]

I have an in concrete radiant system though it's been 15 years and I have not completed hooking it up dammit! I keep saying every year i'm going to hook it up. Maybe this year.

 

[customizedcreationz]

But they are way more efficient then forced air heaters. That is for sure.

I also was concerned that by not heating the entire area, that the floor would become one big heatsink and whatever isn't heated is going to draw from the heated floor area and make it cool. Which is exactly what two other heating guys confirmed with me.

So I am just going to buy the bigger brand new unit, its about the same price after I get all the extras for these smaller heaters to make it work. So I figured new, warranty and its upgraded above the smaller ones in both function and ability.

So now its just pony up the cash....which fortunately isn't much.

Todd

 

[Buster Hymen]

I work with a licensed HVAC guy at work and can ask him tomorrow if you want.

 

[customizedcreationz]

That would be great.

Thanks
Todd

 

[one2dmax]

My building is actually insulated under the concrete to help control heat loss through the ground.

Sean

 

[MR_NST]

My building is actually insulated under the concrete to help control heat loss through the ground.

Sean

Journeyman plumber. I deal predominantly with hot water heat/steam heat. infloor heat is very efficient and insulating the ground under the concrete is very critical.

you can apply that to radiant heat as well, as radiant heaters heat objects not so much the air, if your garage/shop isnt insulated beneath, you will loose heat/energy because as the concrete is heated the cold ground will try to wick the heat away. over a VERY long period of time ive heard extreme cases that slab structures will heave/crack due to the change in temp during the winter due to the frost line being different under the building vs not if not insulated. but i dont think michigan gets as cold as it does here is saskatchewan... i wouldnt worry.

so with infloor heat the insulation retains the heat into the concrete and building.

So what do you do? forced air is an idea but again you decide whats best for your application. you have a machine shop from the posts i gather? lots of metal equipment? The equipment will retain the heat as well and help heat the shop. radiant heat will work but your shop if not insulated below when built wont be as efficient as one that would be. thats pretty much the difference. it would run slightly more. no biggie.

as far as not heating other sides of the shop i have to agree a partition would be the only way.

200000 btuh is not a large unit but will be more than adequate im sure to heat your shop.

i know some applications people will supplement the tube heater with a small unit heater to move air, but mostly used as a door wash for shop garage doors. they would only ever run when a shop door is open to outside to help reduce the amount of cold air entering by showering the space with warm air. that way you can go with a lower btuh tube heater. and hence keep your bills a bit lower. and if it did get to - 45* you could run both if necessary.

instead of one 200000 tube heater, go one 125000 tube + a 45000 btu or even 75000 if you wanted. it would be the same heat load, but run at different frequencys. initial cost would be higher but could pay for itself over 10 + years...

My professional opinion... but go with what the local experts know as im used to much colder applications... you may not need the extra heat. LOL

PS. I do not sell or profit from the selling of unit/radiant heaters... lol

good luck,
evan...

 

[customizedcreationz]

Thanks for the info.

The building is insulated and the concrete I am guessing it pretty darn thick. There was a second 6" slab poured over the top of the original slab for a machine to be put on. So I am guessing the concrete is atleast 12" thick, if not thicker. So big heatsink in the floor.

After talking with the company, the heater I can get ( 3 of the 125,000 btu ) would need more tube to be effective. Tubes are $150 each if I stay at 125,000 btu rating. If I go to 200,000 the first tube has to be changed ( $200 ) and the setup internally runs $350, so $550 for one heater, on top of $370 = $910 for a heater ( one single ) vs $2000 roughly for the new one ( 200,000 btu and 50 ' long ).

Now my thought was 3 heaters , 125,000 btu each, 2 of them at 30 feet long and run them above my machine area specifically. Instead of being 25 feet in the air, put them 15 feet in the air. I don't need to heat the air above, I know it will rise and I have fans to help push it back down. I do have a 150,000 forced air setup above the machine area, I could use that to help push some heat around. We also have a 55 gallon wood burner set in one area that really throughs off some radiant heat as well.

My problem last year, when we hit single digits I wasn't able to get the heat above 40 degrees in the shop. The forced air just ran and ran. We installed fans and then the wood burner and that helped, but it was still cold. I moved into the new shop middle of winter basically, so we waited it out pretty much as we had a mild winter.

I would like to keep a constant 60 degrees in the shop. And obviously have a small heat bill. But even if the bill isn't small, I atleat want to pay for heat and not be struggling to support 40 degrees. If I have to pay , I want 60 degree temps in the shop when its really cold out.

Thanks
Todd

 

[MR_NST]

its easy to determine your building heat load requirements, basically all the calculators online do the same math for ya in an instant. the kicker is determining the heat loss your building has, insulation (or lack), weatherstripping, etc. i think your assesment on the radiant heat is a good way to go based on the shop size and use, but the reality is youd be trying to heat the whole thing untill it gets partitioned.

i had a chat with a journeyman coworker today and we both agreed based on the size and overhead of your shop the single 200mb/h heater would be more than adequate for your shop size, and now knowing you have a 150 in the air, i personally think the 200mb/h would definitely be enough.

as far as lowering the heater, i cant comment on how effective or beneficial that would be as ive no experience on that specific matter. id run that by the installer for his opinion. i know from seeing other setups that if its high it should still work well. especially with fans.

i think if you went 3 x 125mbtu you would have some better control over how you use the heat but again you would use a much higher heat load to do so, your recovery would be exceptional, but so would the size of your bill. maybe 2 x 125 would suffice, and see if they are 2 stage burners... so they would run at 40% or 60% of max when it just needs to suppliment and then high fire when it needs to recover... that may be an option...
good luck.
evan...