Bike not running right.
- Thread starter Pighuntingpuppy
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Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
To answer the question....yes....light was seen through that insanely small jet. No obstructions observed with a magnifying glass either. When I pulled that small jet, I scrutinized the hell out of it. It looks like new, it looks perfect.
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Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
So based on what you see with the carbs, what stands out as a problem? Would I be correct on asserting that I may be facing a weak spark problem? And if so, what would be the most likely causes?
You have OEM coils? Have you considered COP's if you still have OEM coils? Sean has Gannon's Splicker Designs coil kits. I have one been running it for years, no issues.
If you want to keep it old-school, get a DYNA green coil set, they were the standard for all-sorts of competition before the widespread use of COP's.
Actually, the OEM coils work fine, assuming that you have good primary wires and spark plug caps, and good grounds.
Anytime I have issues with electrical, I look-at the grounds, first. Then I look at the connectors, their crimps and the M-F leads. Then I look for continuity, while flexing the wires along their length.
I would throw in a new set of spark plugs too, they're cheap. One time, I had a non-firing cylinder on a KZ1000 and the most-recent thing had-been a plug change, one was bad from out of the box. It can happen. I was so-fixated on, "I just-installed new NGK's!" that I was unable to consider the possibility that one was bad. My French-Canadian mechanic/machinist friend taught me that one.
If you want to keep it old-school, get a DYNA green coil set, they were the standard for all-sorts of competition before the widespread use of COP's.
Actually, the OEM coils work fine, assuming that you have good primary wires and spark plug caps, and good grounds.
Anytime I have issues with electrical, I look-at the grounds, first. Then I look at the connectors, their crimps and the M-F leads. Then I look for continuity, while flexing the wires along their length.
I would throw in a new set of spark plugs too, they're cheap. One time, I had a non-firing cylinder on a KZ1000 and the most-recent thing had-been a plug change, one was bad from out of the box. It can happen. I was so-fixated on, "I just-installed new NGK's!" that I was unable to consider the possibility that one was bad. My French-Canadian mechanic/machinist friend taught me that one.
Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
Yes, coils are OEM. Now while physical condition means squat, they look good. They ohm'ed out within specifications minus a couple tenths and that could be due to temperature. The bike already has a new set of spark plugs ready to install. I always keep a couple sets per running bike just in case. I have yet to check any actual bike harness wiring to and fro.
Since I have had the carb apart and cleaned, Gonna reassemble it, swap the coils, install the new plugs and see if the problem follows the coil. If it does...viola. If it doesnt, then we know we either have a carb issue or engine mechanical issue. I will also check the coil wiring to the TCI and make sure theres no funky business going on there.
I think this is a good approach for the time being. Unless something pops new into your head that you forgot to have me look at, I will move on my approach and go from there. Might not be till next year till I report back due to weather. Cause our lows are in the 20s right now and I am a critter that does not like the cold.
Denci
Well-Known Member
I didn't see anywhere that you checked the floats? is one stuck open, is it out of adjustment allowing too much fuel to enter? I may be way off but at this point I think it would be worth checking. Don't forget to let us know what it was when you get it solved. I am really curious.
Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
If the float were stuck open, I think I would have a severe flooding issue. Agree? Fuel economy would be in the toilet. Agree? My fuel mileage went from around 30-33mpg to a hair over 40mpg. Oil is not overfilled and the bike never smelled like raw fuel. So, at this moment, I do not think I am looking at a carb issue. I plan on swapping coils , new plugs and reassembling the carbs. Ride the bike and go from there. See if the cylinder fouling stays put or follows the coil.
Vmaxhooligan
New Member
Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I will make sure the carbs are good when they are reassembled.
Parminio
Well-Known Member
When I did my '07, every single one of them was just like the one on the right. I think all of them come that way. I also think that's why mine runs so much better than it did brand new after I did them.
Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
So, some follow up. I sent it off to the dealer as I dont have the time right now to fiddle with the bike. The dealer had the bike for a month. I think the dealer went through tech changes as the tech that did the work prior on my bike was no longer there. The dealer has done good work for me in the past, but I suspect that the new crew is not up to par on this bike. I am in a black hole of a state and there are no real good motorcycle techs here. Unless I go out of state, it is what it is.
Their consensus was the engine at 32K is completely worn out. This was followed up by, the bike has excessively low compression on the 2 right cylinders being at 105 for the right front and 110 for the right rear. They said that because the left cylinders are not to specification(150 left front and 145 left rear) they assert this engine is completely worn out. The compression spec they said is 181psi. I do gotta say, I know I need a new battery. That was on my list after they told me what was wrong. The battery is to my knowledge 3 years old. So I know the cranking speed may not have been there as well. Now as someone who has regularly and consistently worked on vehicles independently and professionally, I know this is all bull. But the standard line people without experience and expertise use when something is above their skill set.
They also said that the leak down test for the right front is going through the rings. As someone who knows when an engine isnt burning right, yes....compression and leak down through the rings is to be expected. The cylinder is washed down with fuel. So that part is not exactly an earth shattering statement.
So, I told them they need to focus on the carburetors(as many as stated, though at this time, I disagree, unless they jimmied something), the ignition system not producing a good hot spark or leaking air past the carbs.
This happened suddenly and not as an over time event. I was riding the bike when one Vboost event felt normal....the next one didnt and the problem didnt resolve itself. When I took the carbs apart, super squeaky clean where not even one grain of sand was found.
With this new info at the moment....thoughts? Opinions? Anything else I should mention to these folks on how to proceed?
Their consensus was the engine at 32K is completely worn out. This was followed up by, the bike has excessively low compression on the 2 right cylinders being at 105 for the right front and 110 for the right rear. They said that because the left cylinders are not to specification(150 left front and 145 left rear) they assert this engine is completely worn out. The compression spec they said is 181psi. I do gotta say, I know I need a new battery. That was on my list after they told me what was wrong. The battery is to my knowledge 3 years old. So I know the cranking speed may not have been there as well. Now as someone who has regularly and consistently worked on vehicles independently and professionally, I know this is all bull. But the standard line people without experience and expertise use when something is above their skill set.
They also said that the leak down test for the right front is going through the rings. As someone who knows when an engine isnt burning right, yes....compression and leak down through the rings is to be expected. The cylinder is washed down with fuel. So that part is not exactly an earth shattering statement.
So, I told them they need to focus on the carburetors(as many as stated, though at this time, I disagree, unless they jimmied something), the ignition system not producing a good hot spark or leaking air past the carbs.
This happened suddenly and not as an over time event. I was riding the bike when one Vboost event felt normal....the next one didnt and the problem didnt resolve itself. When I took the carbs apart, super squeaky clean where not even one grain of sand was found.
With this new info at the moment....thoughts? Opinions? Anything else I should mention to these folks on how to proceed?
Well you probably know adding a couple squirts of oil should probably increase the cyl specs much-higher, on the affected/deficient cyl's. if the issue is rings. I'd want to know that. Confirm/deny.
Pressurize @ TDC ea. suspect cyl, leakage at the carbs or exhaust is valves.
Pressurize @ TDC ea. suspect cyl, leakage at the carbs or exhaust is valves.
Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
Yea, I know how to do leak downs and compression tests. I am not the one doing it. Its at the dealer. The dealer is the one telling me this. The reason I am not buying this is 3 of 4 spark plugs are perfect. 1 was bad. The bike never gave any driveability issues until Vboost. You can still get this bike into triple digits easy. No hesitation. No bucking. No jerking. No low power off the line. No low oil, no loss of oil. No smoking from the exhaust, even on startup. Did not ever need to choke this bike to start it either.
I think whoever is doing this work for me doesnt know much about vehicles in general. Thats my opinion on the matter. I do know a low battery will cause low compression readings as the engine isnt cranking over fast enough. I do know that fuel will wash out a cylinder and cause low compression. A combination of both of these is why I would not rely on compression readings. The washed out cylinder is why I wouldnt believe the leak down test as they told me its through the rings. I understand that if there is minimal engine oil on the walls. Fuel washed it down.
Cause I am mechanically inclined, understand how and why things work the way they should, I need to see what precisely failed. Just telling me, oh its bad and its this, that or the other thing, simply wont fly. When I talk to customers, I show them precisely what failed, why it failed and what we can do to fix it and keep it reliable. Unless an engine is truly bad(knocking, excessive oil consumption and so on), I will never tell a customer with a low cylinder that they need a new engine. Most of the time, fixing what caused the low cylinder will remedy the engine. Saying every engine needs to be replaced cause you cant figure it out is horrible business practice.
It is not likely that the engine is toast. Possibly needs a valve adjustment but the cylinders will not be worn out. Get the carbs rebuilt (by someone qualified) and I suspect you will be back in business. We can help if they can't. Just have to take the carbs off and send them to us.
Might be Vboost control box? These are known for cold solders. Does the servo cycle through every time you turn key on? You could try to press and twist control box while servo is running.
If it is spark related, I’ll change plugs, cables and plug caps just to be sure. And check coil(s) for cracking, they tend to crack.
If it is spark related, I’ll change plugs, cables and plug caps just to be sure. And check coil(s) for cracking, they tend to crack.
Traumahawk
Well-Known Member
I dont think its worn out. My 07 is at 48K and still running VERY strong. Follow Seans advice.
Screwloose
Well-Known Member
Hi Pighuntingpuppy
I always stick to people I know are good at working on bikes, and if they say there is someone good out there I'll go and have a nosey first and evaluate the situation, then I'll insist on them only touching my bikes, or I'll do it myself, mostly I'll do everything myself as I've been shafted when I was younger. Recommendations from people who know how to do the job themselves is the best solution as far as I'm concerned.
For me; there is only one person I trust touching my bikes, and trust nobody touching my cars and vans. I've spent 4 weeks on one of my cars and just finished it, at least I knew what it needed, and persevered with a list to get the many jobs done correctly. In my opinion you would need to do this testing yourself (or get an individual who is trusted and recommended) to get to the absolute truth. There are very few (so called) mechanics that insist on getting the job done correctly, the rest are moranic imbeciles and bull-shitters that rely on people knowing less than them, and want your money with no work, it's an art form with some of them on how to clean you out. These people just shaft you, then do not even have the decency to help pull up your trousers as your walking away with nothing.
apsolus
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there is a technician shortage i hear. in fact i left the mechanic world myself to go to work for me. dealerships are shit these days . they really are. they dont hire qualified techs anymore. dealers tend to run us off with crappy pay and conditions. if i were you id get a second opinion cause im sure the dealership guys are pretty much clueless with carbs
Pighuntingpuppy
Well-Known Member
The valves were adjusted right after I got the bike at 19K. For the carbs...in the pics I supplied, was there something that stood out that caught your eye as to why?
Yes, the Vboost cycles audibly with the key, yes the Vboost cycles visually when the carbs were removed. The dealer had a great tech that knew these bikes prior to this. I suspect dealership politics forced him out. I agree that this new crop of techs they got dont know squat about these bikes.
I agree with you that compression test results are not significant for this fault diagnosis. If it was a coil two cylinders would be affected. Carbs look perfect from the photos you posted. If it was the V boost mechanism two cylinders would also be affected. I also agree with you that this is an electrical fault not a fuel fault. Perhaps it could be the simplest electrical things such as HT lead, plug cap and plug itself. maybe you have already eliminated those?
