Birdoprey's COP (Coils Over Plugs) Mod

[satariel666]

Modern TCI's control dwell parameters and by this TCI controls current and voltage feeding the COP.
So yes, suply may be 12V but it depends how TCI will control it.

I have a friend who use to ply around with his gixer FMM and thats the source of my infos. He wasplaying with his system on preaty advanced level.
Osciloscopes, analisators and other stuffs.

Bealive me, some coils are controled by only 5V.

Power will rise in transformer no matter what you will incrase, voltage or current. P=U*I

There was the story in EU with burning COP's in one model of Renault.
Problem was that Renault want to safe some money on production and
they ordered COP's in SAGEM company.
Well maybe thier makeing good cell phones but they screw those stick coils badly.
After some peoples had Sagem coils fried Renault starts to replace them with Densos.
No more problems with Densos.
I think Denso make the best ignition coils in the world.

At the end i can tell you that i can run with Mistu coils as well after ading the resistors.

 

[RagingMain]

Thanks.

Why i've done this exodus is im sick with stock cracking coils, stock cracking wires, stock cracking caps....i really not wanted to get "bigger" spark as some folks mentioned. IMO its like i've wrote above.

Fargo, before i've started those things i've done many calculations.
Evrything looked like your calcs, but reality is little diffrent.
Why?
I've asked myself about this many times :ummm:

First thing is HEAT in resistor. Our cals may be 100% correct only when
we get IDEAL/PERFECT resistor. We all know that something like this simply do not exist. In resistor we have not only resistance but inductance and capacity as well. And really we cant get Ohm and Kirchoff laws literally.

You're using wrong formula for power in RESISTOR.
Its should be like this: P=U2/R
So lets say: 14V*14V/2,8Ohm(total resistance)
So its give as even 70W.

You will ask: So why your 50W its only little warm?

Couse current in ignition coil is not constant but impulse.
If we want do know the peak power exatlcy we must connect it to osciloscope.

It can be calculated but, its extreme dificult.
Its not important anyway.

I think 4,8A its safe value for DYNA3000.
I've also changed ignition fuse to 7,5A.

Tomorrow ill try to make some serious ride.

This is the resistor i've used but 1 Ohm and 1%.

Hey Bro
I needed to verify this before I posted. See you statement in red above.
For resistors in series, which we would be doing with a 1ohm plus the COP you only have to calculate the voltage drop across the INDVIDUAL resistor. In this case it is around ~4.5 volts and the current through the entire system is ~4.5 amps so
4.5x4.5=20.25watts
Your equation above is for the TOTAL watts for both the resistor and the COP.
You only need to calculate the power for the voltage drop across the first resistor because that is all that particular resistor is doing for the circuit. Just like you said though this would drop the power requirement on the COP and more than likely make it last longer.
Cheers

 

[satariel666]

Yep Fargo, you have absolutly right. My bad

I was confused with INDIVIDUAL power and TOTAL power.
My thoery can be correct only if i replace coil with another resistor (R2)
and that will be exact power for that resistor(R2).

Or in resistors in parrel.

And thats the way i've done my experiments before connecting entire
thingy in my bike.

Simple mistake that i should not done.

Anyway problem is solved and using stick coils with Dynatek require
rsistors about 1 Ohm and about 25W o power rating.

Since my mod i havent seen any issue related with this.

Cheers

Hey Bro
I needed to verify this before I posted. See you statement in red above.
For resistors in series, which we would be doing with a 1ohm plus the COP you only have to calculate the voltage drop across the INDVIDUAL resistor. In this case it is around ~4.5 volts and the current through the entire system is ~4.5 amps so
4.5x4.5=20.25watts
Your equation above is for the TOTAL watts for both the resistor and the COP.
You only need to calculate the power for the voltage drop across the first resistor because that is all that particular resistor is doing for the circuit. Just like you said though this would drop the power requirement on the COP and more than likely make it last longer.
Cheers

 

[1967vmax]

Hi want to try this mod, I have 3 questions, I am running nology wires with stock coils do you think the COPS is a better setup,I dont want to fry my TCI ? Should i stay away from Mitsi COPS and will CBR 600 05 work are they the same as f4 600. thanks jim 3933

 

[satariel666]

Hi want to try this mod, I have 3 questions, I am running nology wires with stock coils do you think the COPS is a better setup,I dont want to fry my TCI ? Should i stay away from Mitsi COPS and will CBR 600 05 work are they the same as f4 600. thanks jim 3933

If you are happy with that what you have i dont see a reason why to go with that route. Well, some folks use to say that stick coils provides the benefits like better start due the higher voltage at spark plug.
Personaly i can tell you that thers no diffrence in stock compression engine. Maybe high comp or another engine mod but most defo you will not feel any change beteween your current setup and stick coils.

One benefit i can see here is saving space with stick coils.
Another may be that they are cheapo and more realible then stock crack'y coils.

I think theres no way to fry new type TCI, however its recomended to use at least 1,8 Ohm coils and Denso type. Lower resistance coils can be used with resistors as well Mitsubishi coils.

Evry 1,8 Ohm coils should do the trick, there're some long type of colis mostly used in CBR's. They will work too but you may have some problems with fiting them
as they're longer.
Good luck.

 

[satariel666]

Update!


After the very cold winter I can say a little abut starting the bike while its
really cold.

I have a little problems with starting in those weather conditions.
Something like cranking the motor about 20s more till fire.

Its runs, its fine and smoth, Dyna works as It should be but when got about
-20' celcius outside and garage was not warmed, it is not easy anymore.

So I've tried with non resistor plugs and "viola", no more problems.
Its fires like new one even when its cold.

Conclusion.
Dyna 3000 ignition box can be used with coils over plug, in this case DENSO short coils with 1,8 Ohm resistance. But only with using 1 ohm (min 20W)
resistor with series on the positive or negative wire.
On all of 4 coils.
Also I recomend to use non resistors plugs DP8AE.

 

[headknocker]

is there a web site that i can go to to find the (cop)

 

[satariel666]

http://www.sr20-forum.com/tuning/26028-cop-coil-plug-pencil-coils-will-fit-fwd-engine.html

 

[rccraw]

I did not see what these COP came from. A car? Another model bike? And how much do they cost?
Thanks, Rich

 

[Redbone]

Here is Mark's (Birdoprey) original list of bikes you can get the COPs from (found on first page of this thread):

"So far, i've run across two types of Denso COPs. The type that the Hayabusa/GSXR's use work very well. There is another type that is a little longer and they neck down just before the rubber boot that sits over the plug(The Honda F4 and F4i use these). These work well, but their length makes it harder to get on the plug. They both use the same electrical connector on the top. They are not a ton trouble, but personally i like the looks/ease of install/removal of the shorter type.
Here are the bikes that use the SHORT COPs(that i've found so-far):
98-2000 GSXR600 SRAD
01-03 GSXR600
98-99 GSXR750 SRAD
00-05 GSXR750
01-08 GSXR1000
99-08 Hayabusa(GSX1300R)
02-08 R1
99-02 R6
04-07 R6
03-08 CBR600rr
03-06 ZX6/ZX636(maybe the 07-up as well, just have not verified that yet)
98-03 ZX9
00-05 ZX12
06-08 ZX14


I found one set of R6 coil sticks that said they were 03 and they were the long type. Not sure if that was a typo or what. So, on the R6 coil sticks, i'm not 100%. Might be good to shy away from the R6 cops anyway due to the previously posted problems with some of them, at least on the 03-04 R6's.
These use the longer type COPs:
CBR929(all years)
CBR954(all years)
CBR f4/f4i
CBR1000rr(04-08)
98-02 ZX6
Looks like the wiring harnesses from ANY of these bikes will work on any of the coil sticks(long or short). "

 

[misiek93]

I know this is an old thread but I'm hoping someone is still looking at it like I just was. I had a set of COPs from 2005 zx10 laying around so I put them on my vmax. So far they work good and I've had no problems at all. However, I've been hearing something about a resistor needed to run COPs? Can someone elaborate on this a bit more, do I need to run the resistors with the kawasaki COPs? What's the worse that can happen if I keep running the COPs without the restors? My bike is 2006.

 

[dannymax]

I know this is an old thread but I'm hoping someone is still looking at it like I just was. I had a set of COPs from 2005 zx10 laying around so I put them on my vmax. So far they work good and I've had no problems at all. However, I've been hearing something about a resistor needed to run COPs? Can someone elaborate on this a bit more, do I need to run the resistors with the kawasaki COPs? What's the worse that can happen if I keep running the COPs without the restors? My bike is 2006.

Think the resistors are needed if you're running a DYNA 3000. I've had COP's, w'out resistors, for 3 years and several thousand miles with no issues.

 

[misiek93]

Think the resistors are needed if you're running a DYNA 3000. I've had COP's, w'out resistors, for 3 years and several thousand miles with no issues.

Good deal, you put my mind at ease :biglaugh:.

 

[320thDeath_Dealers]

Bike seems to be running slower and less responsive, and getting worse gas mileage since i did the COP's mod. Any idea as to why? i didnt change the plugs when I did it so it could be that. Also doesnt start as well as when i was running the stock coils, isnt that the point of COP's?...Thanks for any advice

 

[satariel666]

Bike seems to be running slower and less responsive since i did the COP's mod. Any idea as to why? i didnt change the plugs when I did it so it could be that. Also doesnt start as well as when i was running the stock coils, isnt that the point of COP's?...Thanks for any advice

Mitsubishi COP's? Spark jumping over cyl. head?

 

[320thDeath_Dealers]

The COP's are for a 04-06 Yamaha R1 so they are suppose to be Denso. I cant tell if they are jumping but i see nothing spark or anything at night? how can i check?

 

[mckzx9]

I am thinking about doing this mod as well. I do not have a Dyna 3000. So would it be a good idea for me to do? Or should I just install the Dyna 3000 I have a 2006 Vmax with just under 5,000 miles It is stock right now but I am in the process of ordering a Mark's exhaust 4-2. Danny what do you recommend for me?? Thank You In Advance

 

[satariel666]

The COP's are for a 04-06 Yamaha R1 so they are suppose to be Denso. I cant tell if they are jumping but i see nothing spark or anything at night? how can i check?

You would spot spark jumping even in the sunlight.

An idea of mine would be a BAD set - somethimes even Densos go bad.

 

[dannymax]

I am thinking about doing this mod as well. I do not have a Dyna 3000. So would it be a good idea for me to do? Or should I just install the Dyna 3000 I have a 2006 Vmax with just under 5,000 miles It is stock right now but I am in the process of ordering a Mark's exhaust 4-2. Danny what do you recommend for me?? Thank You In Advance

I think it's a worthwhile mod...it eliminates 8 possible problem areas (both ends of the oem coil wires) of corrosion build-up, if nothing else. Most guys report quicker starting....mine did. Any of the COP's from the list in the first part of this thread work well as far as I know, Brian re-listed them in post #150 also.
I also have Mark's 4 - 2, a 1mm (.038") needle shim and A/F screws at 3 1/4 turns out worked well for me.
I believe you can run the COP's with the D3K if the plug wires have resistors in-line....there is a forum member who makes a plug 'n play COP harness w/resistor that is very nice.....88vmx12.

 

[RaWarrior]

Any arcing to the head will be easier to see at night. Wiggle each coil stick around and see if you can "make" it spark. If you can, that's a problem.

I originally had sticks from a 2007 R6. They had the Mitsubishi logo etched at the top. They would arc to the head if even slightly jiggled. I re-sold them on ebay and got a set off a 2009 GSXR 600, which are the "new style" Denso's. I can't say I notice a big difference, but no more arcing so I suppose that's good.

Even converting to the Mitsu's, I noticed much quicker starting and crisper throttle response.

You need resistors if you use the Dyna, or if you have an analog ignition (85-89). Without, the box WILL fry. The 90-up digital ignition does not have this problem, and many members myself included have tens of thousands of miles with COPs and no issues.