???Blown Head Gasket???

[RagingMain]

I have been having overheating problems for a while now and am starting to suspect a blown head gasket.

Symptoms
1. Old Radiator Cap lifts too soon and lifts when under throttle with temps as low as 180*
2. Replaced with new radiator cap and still lifted early, 200*, and under throttle a steady stream of water comes out of the tube
3. This last time doing a coolant flush the water was a little dirtier than normal with a small amount of oil in it.
4. Coolant level in the filler neck rises with cap off when under throttle

Think the combustion pressure is going into the coolant system :confused2::bang head:

What do you guys think???

 

[maleko89]

It's a possibility. Do you have a leak down tester?

 

[RagingMain]

It's a possibility. Do you have a leak down tester?

I am not sure that would work for a couple of reasons.
1. It only leaks under compression conditions
2. It is leaking from the cylinder out, leak down tester goes the other way.

Found a test kit on the internet that test for hydro carbons in the coolant. Gonna pick one up before I get all upset

 

[headknocker]

r u getting any water in your oil???

 

[RagingMain]

r u getting any water in your oil???

No
I think it is leaking the other direction
I have oil, small amount, in my water.

 

[Rand-5107]

With the cap off it should be bubbling if leaking into the water jacket.

 

[spursmech]

unk: Hey do a compression test and see if the pressure stays on the gauge or bleeds off. Or Do not release the pressure on the gauge at the end of the compression test. Check all cylinders and compare. That should tell you one way or the other. Good Luck, Spurs

 

[95spfldmax]

I am not sure that would work for a couple of reasons.
1. It only leaks under compression conditions
2. It is leaking from the cylinder out, leak down tester goes the other way.

Found a test kit on the internet that test for hydro carbons in the coolant. Gonna pick one up before I get all upset

Very interesting. Keep us up to date on progress.....

 

[RagingMain]

With the cap off it should be bubbling if leaking into the water jacket.

With the cap off it has small micro bubbles foaming up in the filler neck

Hey do a compression test and see if the pressure stays on the gauge or bleeds off. Or Do not release the pressure on the gauge at the end of the compression test. Check all cylinders and compare. That should tell you one way or the other. Good Luck, Spurs

I thought about this as well but it is only showing up under when the bike is around 3k rpm. This is higher compression than one would get just turning the bike over and even the tightest cylinders will eventually leak down.

 

[spursmech]

unk: Hey, if it has a leak it will show up with the above mentioned procedure. . The motor does not make more compression as the RPM's go up. Everything leaks, you are just looking for a bigger leak in one cylinder. You can install a ballon over the top of the radiator where the cap goes and pump up the suspected cylinder and see if the ballon fills up. Good Luck, Spurs

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

We use a type of checker at work that fits into the radiator with a rubber plug (where the cap usually goes) and you fill the tube of the checker with a fluid that is sensitive to combustion gases. (There is a check valve that only allows gasses to come out of the radiator, and nothing goes in). If the fluid changes from blue to yellow, you have a head gasket leak. We use them for gas and diesel engines, and they work quite well. They allow you to bring the engine up to operating temperature, which is where a lot of cracks and bad gaskets start leaking. I have seen cracks that are closed and pass a leak down test, but will expand and open with heat. FWIW. Bob

 

[98Redlne]

A couple of questions....

1) Does the coolant start flowing into the overflow tank immediately after starting or only after the bike warms up?

2) When the temp on the bike comes back down, does it suck the coolant back in and return the overflow tank to it's original level, or will the tank continue to fill and fill until it overflows?

 

[RagingMain]

unk: Hey, if it has a leak it will show up with the above mentioned procedure. . The motor does not make more compression as the RPM's go up. Everything leaks, you are just looking for a bigger leak in one cylinder. You can install a ballon over the top of the radiator where the cap goes and pump up the suspected cylinder and see if the ballon fills up. Good Luck, Spurs

That is a good idea, will have to do that. Obviously will have to make sure the intake & exhaust valves are closed before hand.

We use a type of checker at work that fits into the radiator with a rubber plug (where the cap usually goes) and you fill the tube of the checker with a fluid that is sensitive to combustion gases. (There is a check valve that only allows gasses to come out of the radiator, and nothing goes in). If the fluid changes from blue to yellow, you have a head gasket leak. We use them for gas and diesel engines, and they work quite well. Bob

I have been calling around to find one but none of my parts stores around here have one.

1) Does the coolant start flowing into the overflow tank immediately after starting or only after the bike warms up?
When it is warming up, doesnt reach NOT before it starts to overflow, starts around 180*

2) When the temp on the bike comes back down, does it suck the coolant back in and return the overflow tank to it's original level, or will the tank continue to fill and fill until it overflows?
Yes it will suck coolant in when it cools down but it will continously overflow the tank when it is running starting around 180* when I rev it up it will flow even more water out

 

[vmax626]

Hey fargo,
Lets just yank the motor and get`er done.
It`s time for some exploritory surgery.:biglaugh::biglaugh:
Dave unk:

 

[COP RUNNER]

WE DO CAR INSPECTIONS AT MY SHOP , THUS WE HAVE AN EMISSION MACHINE ! .. SO IF YOU FIND A SHOP THAT DOES INSPECTIONS WITH AN EMISSION MACHINE , JUST DRIVE THE BIKE THERE AND THEY CAN HOLD THE EXHAUST ANALYZER HOSE'S TIP JUST ABOVE YOUR RADIATOR , WITH THE CAP REMOVED & BIKE RUNNING , THEN YOU'LL HAVE YOUR ANSWER ! .. WE DO IT ALL THE TIME !.. IF THERES EXHAUST IN YOUR COOLANT ITS TIME FOR ANOTHER " MONSTER MOTOR " ! .. unk:

 

[RagingMain]

WE DO CAR INSPECTIONS AT MY SHOP , THUS WE HAVE AN EMISSION MACHINE ! .. SO IF YOU FIND A SHOP THAT DOES INSPECTIONS WITH AN EMISSION MACHINE , JUST DRIVE THE BIKE THERE AND THEY CAN HOLD THE EXHAUST ANALYZER HOSE'S TIP JUST ABOVE YOUR RADIATOR , WITH THE CAP REMOVED & BIKE RUNNING , THEN YOU'LL HAVE YOUR ANSWER ! .. WE DO IT ALL THE TIME !.. IF THERES EXHAUST IN YOUR COOLANT ITS TIME FOR ANOTHER " MONSTER MOTOR " ! .. unk:

Hey Bro, I think this just might be the first smart thing you ever said on this forum :eusa_dance::biglaugh:

Just teasing.

That is a great idea I will have to do that

 

[98Redlne]

If the cap is lifting before the design temp then obviously pressure is entering the coolant system from somewhere.

The fact that coolant flows into the overflow tank continuously while running and faster when you rev the motor seems like a cylinder to water jacket leak of some sort (head gasket, cracked head, or cracked cylinder). Does the flow into the overflow react nearly immediately with the increase in revs?

While the compression of the engine does not change when the engine is revved, the motor is essentially a positive displacement pump. The faster it revs, the more air it moves and thus pushes exhaust gas into the coolant at a faster rate.

It sounds like you have some motor work in your future :-(

 

[RagingMain]

If the cap is lifting before the design temp then obviously pressure is entering the coolant system from somewhere.

The fact that coolant flows into the overflow tank continuously while running and faster when you rev the motor seems like a cylinder to water jacket leak of some sort (head gasket, cracked head, or cracked cylinder). Does the flow into the overflow react nearly immediately with the increase in revs? YES :bang head:

While the compression of the engine does not change when the engine is revved, the motor is essentially a positive displacement pump. The faster it revs, the more air it moves and thus pushes exhaust gas into the coolant at a faster rate.

It sounds like you have some motor work in your future :-(

The only thing that is a silver lining in this is I get to teach my son how to tear apart an engine. His step dad doesnt know how to change spark plugs.

 

[98Redlne]

That's the way to look at it!

Quality father and son time is priceless....even if it does mean you Max is off the road for awhile.

 

[RagingMain]

Now how do I go about finding what cylinder??? :confused2::confused2:

If I can I will do what we talked about earlier

One thing I was thinking was running the bike and pull the COPs one at a time. Without any compression it might not leak through.

Also what do you guys think

Do both heads or just fix the leaking one.
I subscribe to the idea, "If its not broke dont fix it"