CNN lately.. Canadian perspective

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ghostntheshell

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1.) The recession is now over!

Really? So the worlds richest investors get out of their bum investments in the mortgage market? GM got to trim the fat and "re-structure" ? PLEASE. 700 billion dollars? What's been gained for that massive, unthinkable amount of money? Besides bailing out the richest investors in the world....


2.) National Health care is bad!


Really? If you believe the American commercials that try and frighten you - you should simply ask a Canadian.

Sure - our system is not always as efficient as it could be - but when it comes down to it - broken bones and cancer don't cost you your house. You don't have to make the choice between feeding your family and healing your family.
All of those horror stories about Canadian health care being in shambles is so far exaggerated that its comical.

It's no secret the American health care system is the most advanced and skilled - but it costs - and it costs a lot.

You folks have the chance to fix the problems we face with health care in Canada
(our efficiency problems)

I am not saying this as an American - I am saying it as a neighbor from an outside view.



I'd love to hear some opinions while keeping it friendly :)
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3.) Hiliary Clinton talking bout' the 2000 election and W's brother...


Isn't she just telling it like it is?
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I'm seeing the effects of the vast sums of money spent by the drug/insurance/medical industries to scare the common sense out of my fellow citizens and maintain the dysfunctional status quo...it's both disgusting and very effective. Nice to hear some truth thrown in there from someone living under the 'horrible socialized health care' in Canada. But I never underestimate my fellow countrymen's short memory and penchant for being gullible...as GW once said, 'Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again' ...
 
All I ask is that the American people look to more sources then their TV's to get to the bottom of this story.

Health care is not about socialism. Health care is about the right to see a doctor. The right to be able to live a healthy life even if you aren't making the same money as, say, a good lawyer.

Health care is equality. Sure - even in Canada you can buy certain aspects of health care. That's ok too. But every person, young or old is going to need the hospital at some point and should be left in financial ruin as a result.


Please don't be afraid of health care. If you listen to the media - you will easily be duped.



Health Care for everyone is not government control. It's common sense! One of the richest countries in the world - and how many of you can't even afford basic health care / insurance?

The answer is very obvious and clear - if you don't listen to those who stand to lose a lot of zero's from their big fat bank accounts at the realization of health care for all.
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"DON'T PAY FOR MEDICARE ON THE BACKS OF OUR SENIORS...."

re: slander campaign on CNN commercials...

Come on folks. Seniors would benefit the most from Medicare. Living on a stripped income. With little room for ANY extra expense.

They have HOMECARE in Thailand people...
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I have relatives and friends in Canada.....so I will weigh in on this....


Socialized medicine....universal healthcare......call it what you want it means the same thing.....

I agree that I would like to have the $270.00 I pay for my benefits every month.... From that perspective it is great.....

However.....how much of that $270.00 would be eaten up in taxes to fund healthcare for someone else???....I have watched my friends and relatives in Canada wait 5 years for a hip replacement......7 months for gall bladder surgery....etc.....

The Canadian system is not just inefficient it is also overloaded......

Because the money (incentive) to go into the healthcare field is not there....

We have many Canadian doctors and nurses working in the hospitals and clinics here because they can make LOTS more money.......

I don't have to wait for ANYTHING I need done......

And I am a greedy, impatient, self-centered, warmongering American......

Free healthcare is already available to everyone in this country.....

Join the military
 
I originally stated : You folks have the chance to fix the problems we face with health care in Canada
(our efficiency problems)


There are horror stories in EVERY SYSTEM. Sure, some have had to wait for certain procedures.
But let me run down my personal experiences...

1.) Mom had breast cancer. It was detected early - and treated in the best Cancer Treatment Facility Canada has to offer. She has been in remission since 2001. Great success.

2.) My father had a stroke. he has since been rehabilitated and has recovered to an amazingly functional degree. Originally he couldn't even swallow anything. Now - he eats and drinks and plays golf almost every day. Success.

3.) My mother has had surgery for carplal tunnel syndrome (spelling?) on BOTH of her wrists. Success.

4.) I got gang beat (bout 6-7 strangers took the boots to me some time ago) and I was transported to the hospital, got xrays, and treated for a fracture in my cheekbone. All of this was done over night. Success.

5.) My roomate had his appendix almost rupture. They operated hours after he was admitted. Success.

6.) I broke my toe. Ouch. Treated released in a few hours. Success.


Those are just off the top of my head.

I could probably go on and on.




Also, the comment about how much of your money is going to treat someone else... that's not the most neighborly way to think about it.

Try looking at it this way : People contribute their share - and when they need the system for their own health care - it is available.



You folks have such an opportunity right in front of you to become a truly great world power - not in military might - but in the treatment of it's citizens. You have the opportunity to create an EFFICIENT health care system.




Or you can give in to the funded media and continue lining the pocket of a select few.



You don't have to give up paying for your health care. You could have a two tier system. Those who want to pay can.
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Not sure how true this is but...




finally...the $64,000 question was asked...yesterday, on "abc-tv" (better known as the all barack channel) during the "network special on health care".... Obama was asked:
"mr. President will you and your family give up your current health care program and join the new 'universal health care program' that the rest of us will be on ????"..... (bet you already know the answer)...there was a stoney silence as obama ignored the question and chose not to answer it !!!... in addition, a number of senators were asked t he same question and there response was..."we will think about it."and they did. It was announced today on the news that the "kennedy health care bill" was written into the new health care reform initiative ensuring that that congress will be 100% exempt !so, this great new health care plan that is good for you and i... Is not good enough for obama, his family or congress...?? we (the american public) need to stop this proposed debacle asap !!!!... This is totally wrong !!!!! personally, i can only accept a universal health care overhaul that extends to everyone... Not just us lowly citizens... While the washington "elite" keep right on with their gold-plated health care coverages. if you agree please pass this o n ....if not plan to suffer with the obama health care plan ....for free...while our self-serving politicians make sure that they take care of their butts at our expense.
 

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Subject: New Health Care Bill in Bullet Form




New Health Care Bill in Bullet Form

* Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
* Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
* Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
* Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
* Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
* Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
* Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
* Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
* Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
* Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
* Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
* Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
* Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
* Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly.
Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
* Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
* Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
* Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
* Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
* Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
* Page 167: Any individual who doesn't have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
* Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
* Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
* Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
* Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
* Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
* Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
* Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
* Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
* Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
* Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
* Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
* Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
* Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
* Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
* Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
* Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
* Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
* Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
* Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
* Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory.
Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
* Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
* Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
* Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
* Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
* Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
* Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
* Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
* Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

Click hee to see the complete bill<http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf>

STEALTH CARE

The Democratic Congress is fast-tracking a Bill ("America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009") to radically change not only health care, but also the role of the government in our lives. As it is currently written, the 1,018 page Bill*will:

* Eliminate employer and private insurance plans beginning in 2013.
* Create a new government-run agency on par with the Social Security Administration.
* Restrict care for the elderly, regulate hospice and control end-of-life decisions.
* Penalize with fines any citizens who do not participate; increase taxes on citizens and businesses.
* Add to health care costs and the deficit.
* Empower the new Health Care Administration to monitor all medical records and personal information.
* Impose political oversight and involvement at every level through a non-elected Health Benefits Advisory Committee.
* Control education of nurses and medical staff with new Public Health Workforce Corps.
* Limit physicians' control over patient care and medications.
* Give preference to certain identity groups with an Office of Minority Health.
* Force states into programs and add more costs to states.

What can you do?

* Phone, write, e-mail your Congressman, or just drop by his district office, and tell him you will not vote to re-elect him if he votes to enact this Bill.
* Tell your employer you like your health insurance plan and want it to continue.
* Contact your insurer and your primary care physician and let them know you do not want government-run health care.
* Cancel your membership in AARP and any other organization that supports the Bill.
* Boycott companies such as Wal-Mart that support the Bill.
* Go to www.freeourhealthcarenow.com<http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/> and www.savequalityhealthcare.org<http://www.savequalityhealthcare.org/> and sign the petitions.
* Circulate this page to everyone you know.
Remember, America has the best health care system in the world. Let's keep it that way
 
How can you sell something without trusting it for yourself or doing it yourself.

I'm dead set against it. I trust Obama as far as I can throw him. All I see is us spending money.

WHY must the country be responsible for everyone? WHY?

I think there's to many issues with this current plan.
 
If that's what you are basing your argument against it - that's scary.

Why would Obama give up his personal doctor? Which he does have - as entitled by the position he has.

Congress also has a ridiculously amazing health care package. Why would they give that up?

That's not the issue. The issue is the millions of Americans who can't afford to get sick. Period.
Not the fact that you should expect the same coverage as your president.

To me, the issue would be that they are entitled to that package in the first place (you guys do vote for them right?)


Think of it this way :


1.) Health Care should be available to every American.
2.) IF you want to pay for your health care - that should be incorporated too. Simply put - a two tier system.
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And to answer your question as to why everyone should have health care?

1.) Let's say you - or your family - or your child gets sick. You have a good job. You are a hard working American - and you can afford health care. You deserve it.

2.) Let's say you - or your family - or your child gets sick. You have a good job. You are a hard working American - except, by no fault of your own, you lose your job.
Are you saying you or your family no longer deserve to be treated? You don't deserve health care anymore?




I realize I am not American - but I just don't understand the opposition to it. I hope I'm not offending people here by this discussion.
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You think I should entrust my healthcare to the same folks who run social security......That system works so well.....

Anytime the government gets involved in something it gets horribly bloated and inefficient.....and used as a political pawn......

In my opinion the federal government should go back to setting FOREIGN policy.....and defending our soil from FOREIGN invaders.....as it was originally set up.....

Give the power to legislate and govern day to day activities back to a much more local level.........

I want the federal government out of my yard and my wallet.....

And stop looking to me to save someone else's ass......I worked and fought and studied and clawed my way to what I have and it is mine......and I will defend it......

I think I said it in my first post.....

Greedy, Self-centered, war-mongering
 
And to answer your question as to why everyone should have health care?

1.) Let's say you - or your family - or your child gets sick. You have a good job. You are a hard working American - and you can afford health care. You deserve it.

2.) Let's say you - or your family - or your child gets sick. You have a good job. You are a hard working American - except, by no fault of your own, you lose your job.
Are you saying you or your family no longer deserve to be treated? You don't deserve health care anymore?




I realize I am not American - but I just don't understand the opposition to it. I hope I'm not offending people here by this discussion.

I am certainly not offended.....your opinions are just as valid as anyone else.....we just have a different mindset.....

This two-tier deal intrigues me.......

Isn't that setting up kinda what we got now????

Remember......no one can be denied life saving emergency medical care.....at any hospital..... regardless of your ability to pay....by law....

So.....they won't let you die.....after that you need to pay up or get out....

Seems fair to me:confused2:
 
Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard

The Dems have been trying to get a National ID card for years. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just wait until Gun Control gets started again. Tie that to the National Id "Healthcard". It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to tie THAT to Socialism.
 
I work in health care and i live on the Canadian border and have many Canadian friends and some coworkers. Canadian health care is an absolute joke. They don't do proper tests, they give wrong medications, you wait forever to have surgery or other treatments done. We have a lot of Canadian patients simply because they have no idea how to treat them in Canada. IT takes for ever to get them back over the border which is fine be me becasue they would just die if they went. I've made it my business to keep every Canadian citizen that need American health care as long as i can.
Secondly where in the constitution does it say you are entitled to health care?
Thirdly, you wanat to be paid when you go to work, so does everyone in health care. People complain all the time about how much money the drug companies make, but guess what, with out the BILLIONS of dollars they spend in research, the world population would be a lot smaller.
Fourth, at least in NY state, you cannot be denied medical treatment due to lack of money. There is a ton of financial help out there for those that need it.
Fifth, why does every one thing they have to right to something they didn't necessarily earn? You never spent a second at work, yet you thing you deserve the same thing a guy who buss his ass gets? I don't think so.
Come in with a stoke because you smoke a pack of cigarettes a day but bitch and whine that you can't afford your meds, guess what, quite smoking, you just saved $200/month, you now have more than enough money for your meds and to start paying your bill. You drink a quart of vodka a day and now need a liver that the taxpayers should pay for, go to hell.
Socialized medicine doesn't work. Period.

True story, one of my coworkers who lives in Canada was throwing up soo much ne dehydrated and need an iv so he went to the local (to him) ER. Him and an elderly women were in the waiting room, she was having stroke symptoms, here blood pressure was over 200 ( he checked it), he told the triage nurse and she said" yeah, we know, she's had tia's and has been here before" they took him first. Yeah, socialized medicine works well, not.
We have more than a few Canadian doctors, them made starting out what it would take them 10 years to make in Canada. Mind you, new doctors are over $200,000 in debt when the finish their residency, so yeah, money is an issue. They write the prescriptions they deem necessary, not what the govt tells them to.
Jackass Obama want to limit their income, but give the no, zero, zip, none, protection from malpractice law suits. Brilliant move in a time when there are less and less doctors available.
 
Maybe I can put it this way -

The same arguments were made here in Canada when health care was introduced. It barely made it! We almost listened to the people standing to lose the most money.

Now, we fight to preserve it.

There are a lot of "horror" stories about our health care - but to call it a joke is simply not true.

Refer to my personal experiences with health care - and those of my direct family.
Great success stories. All first hand :) Sure - the system is FAR FROM PERFECT - but it's really there when you need it.

I think this is just one of those fundamental differences between American views and Canadian views.

Not to sound rude - but because of our "horrible socialized health care system that is in shambles" we happen to have a longer life expectancy than Americans
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EvilD im sorry but you are just flat out wrong about Canadian health care.

I grew up watching America bring medicines and medical help to all the ravaged places on earth from one end to the other.... helping people, caring, effectively saying "we are America, we are strong and just, and we will help you because we believe in doing whats right." And the world stood back in awe and was in love with you.

Then i started working for a company that was bought by a larger American corporation and spent the next 18 years in working there. I spent a lot of time in business travel all over the states, corp meetings with execs from ny to Chicago to LA, and with grunts at every level of the factories on both sides of the boarder. I leaned a lot from the people i met and who became my friends.

I got called a socialist (or my country anyway) by people who belonged to a union run US facility while my facility in Toronto was not unionized.

I was asked to explain how OHIP worked to some genuinely interested people only to be attacked by someone who over heard the discussion, with rhetoric from FOX news that was neither "fair nor balanced" and sadly completely uninformed..

I spent many many days in meetings while we discussed factory costs of manufacturing and assessed where to move certain products to reduce costs...whenever it was discovered that our Canadian plant could make a widget cheaper than a unionized American plant, the discussion became "well why don't we move it to Mexico and get even more savings"

i watched as the fight to improved profit made us change the health care 5 times in 4 years... our CEO in NYC even remarked "how does a working class family make ends meet these days", then changed the discussion to "how many we were going to lay off to protect a 40% gross profit margin..."

Profit is all that matters in a free market economy....i learned that in business school but i didnt realize what it really meant untill the real world hit me in the face with it..... Corporate plans area all about removing all costs...its the primary fuction ... and if they can eliminate all costs and get to 100% profit than the job is done..... its only though the positive personality of a business leader, that any care or concern for anybody enters the picture. The system doesnt do what people thing its does.... ie "succesfull business rewards by making more work etc prosperity for all".... not at all.... successful manufacturing companies all have a 5% rule.... reduce all costs 5% every year ..... that means at every level.... A company that can reduce its labor to zero WILL reduce its labor to zero because thats the motivation in a free market economy.... no care or concern about what is done in the wake of that except for the few people who care enough to weigh the benefits of spreading the wealth....

i know a young lad ho had no health care in michican... good guy...he loaded boxes all day, bought a nice neon, dated cute girls etc etc

He fell off a boat horsing around and got hooked on a broken sharp rope tir off bracket....it dug in at his elbow and ripped his forarm muscle all up to his wrist.... sun tan loation mad it hard to haul is ass back in the boat but once in his friends got him to shore and hospital..... you now what comes next..surgery, rehab...time off work etc etc..... it cost him 25000 bucks.... had to sell his car and get a loan, but because he cant work things got tough....went back home to live with the parents.... life took a huge step back...... (i was shocked by all this...iv never know the costs of anything ive been to the hospital for )

This week a buddy fell off his Harley here in Toronto...busted a clavicle.... 50 dollar ambulance ride and couple hours in the hospital...done. Who pays? we all pay..who cares... its what we all agreed was right a long time ago in our free democratic system.... that just like the police, health care is an essential service deserving of separation from the effects of free market system.

I can tell you the only threat to health care in Canada is profit seeking insurance companies and others who want to bring in private health care in order to obviously make a buck.... those are the people promoting the horror stories.

I know that to most Americans, Canada is like Mexico north... that many (not all) view us as less intelligent, passive (hockey??), unworthy of being an equal partner etc etc....
There is nothing we can do to change that... people will believe what they want to believe. But a lot of good stuff happens here, starting with a really good standard of living, and a general sense of working toward the common good. "Peace, order and good government" used to be the descriptive Canadian motto years ago ..... i still believe thats the goal...
 
Sorry, but flat out wrong, i don't think so. Like i said, I live it everyday at work and see what your system does to people. Our hospital, which is in a city 10x smaller than Toronto is 100x more advanced and is running about 20% Canadian population because as i have stated already, your system can't handle them. Ok, so the guy, who was horsing around had to pay $25,000 to get fixed because he screwed up, so? Do you get paid for doing your job? So do we. If you wreck your car and don't have insurance, you have ot pay to get it fixed, your pipes burst in your house, you have to pay to get it fixed.... Heath care is not a right.
Sorry but your country is socialist. Your government is making all the money a corporation would be making but hey call is taxes, PST/GST... Why do we pay $15 for a case of beer that you pay over $30, it came from you guys!!! (and yes it's the same beer, not going to start that argument, I'm a registered beer judge and know way too much about beer). Why do friends have stuff shipped to men than forwarded? Because your govt wants their piece of everything. Now i just read one of your schools is banning books, a guy was told by the govt he can't smoke on his own balcony, you get your car confiscated for "street racing" even i there is no other car involved... Sorry but you guys are big time socialist and your health care system is a complete joke.
 
I have relatives and friends in Canada.....so I will weigh in on this....


Socialized medicine....universal healthcare......call it what you want it means the same thing.....

I agree that I would like to have the $270.00 I pay for my benefits every month.... From that perspective it is great.....

However.....how much of that $270.00 would be eaten up in taxes to fund healthcare for someone else???....I have watched my friends and relatives in Canada wait 5 years for a hip replacement......7 months for gall bladder surgery....etc.....

The Canadian system is not just inefficient it is also overloaded......

Because the money (incentive) to go into the healthcare field is not there....

We have many Canadian doctors and nurses working in the hospitals and clinics here because they can make LOTS more money.......

I don't have to wait for ANYTHING I need done......

And I am a greedy, impatient, self-centered, warmongering American......

Free healthcare is already available to everyone in this country.....

Join the military

:clapping: I'm in the military, I'm also a medic. I am my own health care. lol But really, I write my own prescriptions, referrals, appointments, etc. Then again, I rarely get sick. I'm not the normal case, but the military does have good health care. We pay dearly for it, though. Most people in the military don't make a lot of money, but it's because we never see the the money that goes to pay our health care.

I'll read the rest of the thread while I'm at work. Cheers.
 
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