cooling system woes

[greg_carroll]

A few times, on warm days and slow traffic, my max heats way up to about the 1-2 o'clock position just barely out of the red zone pretty much like this poster:
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=4511&highlight=water+pump
Needless to say that gets your attention. Normally, when I ride my temperature gauge is around the 4-5 o'clock position. As the gauge doesn't have any numbers, I never really thought much of it. After reading the posts around here, it sounds like most run pretty steady at a 3 o'clock position. So now, I'm pretty sure that I'm normally running too cold. I don't think that I've ever run at that 3 o'clock position. Either too cold or too hot.

Based on the advice around here, I started down the path of the fan switch/thermostat. I bought a switch and was headed to NAPA for the thermostat, when I had another almost over-heating episode. I noticed that the fan was running. So the switch is working, but I noticed that the temperature wasn't coming down quickly, if at all. (I had been in heavy traffic, the air temp was in the mid 80's... warm, but not hot)

Last night, I tore most of the cooling system apart. Everything looks good. The drain valve was in the right position. I verified that the thermostat is opening/closing properly (I almost had spaghetti with thermostat for dinner). What I can see looking in the radiator looks perfect and shiny; no scale build up, etc.

Any ideas?

It acts like there isn't water flowing which gives a "false" cool reading with the warm water never getting up to the sender and then suddenly getting a shot of hot water. Normally, I'd conclude that it was air-locked but I've been checking the fluid level at the cap and it has been fine. I don't really see anywhere in the system that could trap air. The cap is the high point in the system, also the (stock) thermostat has a nice little burp/bypass hole in it which would allow air to pass through it even when closed.

The last thing that I need to look at is the water pump. It's gear driven, so I have a hard time believing that it isn't turning but I'm out of ideas. One question about the water pump: Can you remove just the water cover and leave everything else, or do I need to drain the oil?

Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.

 

[maleko89]

Hi Greg!

When the fan kicks on it does little to bring the temp down. Basically, it keeps the temperature constant until you get on the highway. One thing to check is your radiator. I take soap/water and a very soft brush to clean all the bugs and debris out. When's the last time you changed your coolant? When it was changed I usually run it w/o the radiator cap for a few minutes to ensure the air inside the lines escape. There is a separate breather line between the 'V' for that but I still like to be sure. I think getting a fan override switch or a cooler fan switch will help. The Vmax isn't overheating where your temp needle is at but it's definitely hot for your legs!

I really doubt it's a water pump issue. If the weep hole isn't leaking and you don't see oil in your coolant or vice versa that should be fine.

 

[4gasem]

so your stat is opening right? I'd do a good flush with white vinegar and distiled water.

 

[dannymax]

To answer your question...yes, you can remove the impeller cover without draining the oil.

I agree with the posters above, more than likely the system needs a good clean/flush and it's not the pump.

 

[greg_carroll]

Well, last night I played with the sender and gauge and confirmed that both are operating correctly. As reference points, for my bike: 3 o'clock on the gauge is about 27-28 ohms and this would be about 210 deg. (I could only test the sender to boiling point here in CO: 200 deg. was 35 ohms) My normal operating point is about 53 ohms which is around 170 deg. - not quite warm enough.

I popped the water pump cover off and, as expected, everything looks good. The pump is still solidly attached to the gear/motor, no physical obsturctions, etc. I had already flushed it and cleaned the radiator. So, I guess at this point I'll just put it all back together.

 

[ssnsltd]

what are you running for fluid ? radiator fluid is really NOT good at dissipating heat. it only helps increase boiling and freezing points, adds some corrosion protection.

try running just water and see if you still run hot.

engineice is a much better alternative than radiator fluid.
http://www.engineice.com/

 

[4gasem]

I run engine ice in both of my bikes with great success... I actually have to change my SV's this year...

 

[greg_carroll]

radiator fluid is really NOT good at dissipating heat.
<snip>
try running just water and see if you still run hot.
engineice is a much better alternative than radiator fluid.
http://www.engineice.com/

My first instinct was to call BS on the statement that radiator fluid isn't good at dissipating heat. That's why it's "coolant", right? I went researching and found out that's no bull. The property that we care about here is thermal conductivity. Approximate numbers for thermal conductivity, k (W/mK):
Water = 0.6
Ethylene Glycol (100%) = 0.25
Ethylene Glycol (50%) = 0.43
Ethylene Glycol (30%) = 0.48
Here's a couple of reference pages: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html and http://www.mhtl.uwaterloo.ca/old/onlinetools/airprop/airprop.html.
Conclusion: Water is better for transferring heat than regular coolant. "Coolant" -or more appropriately- "antifreeze" is used for the reasons that ssnsltd cited.

However, engineice is not a better alternative for cooling. Here are the thermal conductivity numbers, straight from their site http://www.engineice.com/faq.html
Engine Ice (100%) = 0.34
Engine Ice (50%) = 0.38
This is worse than the green stuff at 50% for cooling properties. (I'm not sure what 100% and 50% mean in this context, it comes prediluted so is 'straight from the bottle' 100% or 50%?)

I'll also point out that Engine Ice uses a base of Propylene Glycol (PG) which is the fairly standard "non-toxic" variety of antifreeze. They use deionized water and may add some pretty nice additives/inhibitors but those would be the only differences from them and brand XYZ of PG antifreeze. It's pretty expensive stuff considering that it's only a half of a bottle of antifreeze pre-diluted to make a whole bottle. I'm not trying to be negative of Engine Ice, I'm sure it's a quality product, I'm just trying to present facts. Just recognize that a good chunk of what they charge for is their value-add: water. (Fancy clean water)

Long story short: I think that I will run some Ethylene Glycol @ 25% to maximize cooling (and make sure to avoid the silicates).

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Sounds to me like there is nothing wrong with running straight water in the warm months....just make sure to switch back to antifreeze before cold weather hits!!

 

[jfeagins]

Isn't a second purpose of anti-freeze to help raise the boiling point of water? If running straight H2O, would it be possible, in extreme heat conditions, to maybe end up with some damaging steam in the Max cooling system? :confused2::confused2:

 

[ssnsltd]

Sounds to me like there is nothing wrong with running straight water in the warm months....just make sure to switch back to antifreeze before cold weather hits!!

better to pick up some Freeztone at AutoZone or Advance Auto etc. it is only $2 or $3 bucks and has all the anti corrosion properties without any Glycal

http://www.freezetone.com/ecologicalproducts.html#1

 

[4gasem]

Yeah you can run straight water but you'll want some sort of lubricant in it too.

Redline Water Wetter is a good one to use...