COPs and Tboost?

[gamorg02]

is anyone running this successfully?

I just installed the COPs and tboost isn't working at the 3k position. regular and off seem to be working

plugged a normal coil/plug in and it worked again, put a COIL stick on, no good.

tried a different stick too.

i am not the best with electrical, anyone have any idea why this might be happening?

 

[gamorg02]

i know NG had a problem where tboost was goign on at 9k, right? tired that too. wasn't hitting there either, like it stopped the circuit completely.

hmmmmm

 

[gamorg02]

and i went out to ride, once with vboost always open the bike just about died on me. i shut her off and turned her back on again, all good... then as i went to gun it at one point i rolled on teh throttle and a wicked exhaust backfire. hmmmm

 

[naughtyG]

wow now that's interesting! I am indeed running the COPs on mine too, and my TBoost only works in the Off and Vboost positions. It does open at 9000 rpm in the TBoost position though, but how the hell do the COPs make it do that?!? :ummm::ummm::ummm:

Haven't had any problems with it dying or backfiring, just lately this misfiring thing that a Shotgun seemed to cure for a while.. It just started again last week, but I haven't had time to play with it or ride it as the weather's been so stormy every day and I've been working 6-day weeks :bang head::damn angry:

 

[Birdoprey]

Anyone have the instructions for the T-boost installation? I assume you did not change ANYTHING with the T-boost wiring when swapping to the COP's?
You can send any instructions to my email address:
[email protected]

 

[naughtyG]

I'll look to see if I can find what came with the TBoost, but I had a divorce and a move since so not so sure. There are installation instructions online from the eBay seller here: http://www.qualitypartsonline.com/tboost_instructions.htm

I actually did the COPs mod first, and then added the TBoost afterwards. I followed the TBoost instructions to the letter, although there was a little confusion as it tells you to monitor cylinder #4 for pre '90 models, and cylinder #1 for '90 and up, and the wire colors did not match on my '86. They actually don't even match the Yamaha Service Manual, but that's often the way with vehicle electrics..

Monitoring #4, mine opens at 9k rpm instead of 3k. I tried swapping over to #2 just to see if it would help, but that made it stop working altogether, so I went back to #4.

 

[KJShover]

Could it be that the Tboost takes a pulse from the stock coils to fool the controller it's at 6k.

Do the COP's wiring stray too far from the stock?

 

[KJShover]

Anyone have the instructions for the T-boost installation? I assume you did not change ANYTHING with the T-boost wiring when swapping to the COP's?

T-Boost instructions;
http://qualitypartsonline.com/tboost_instructions.htm

 

[naughtyG]

The TBoost wire actually splices at the coil connector, so it monitors the pulse the TCI sends to the coil. Indeed, it fools the VBoost controller into thinking the motor is going twice as fast by giving it two pulses instead of one, effectively doubling the pulse speed, opening VBoost at 3k instead of 6k.
So it actually connect at the same place you connect your COP wiring - the original coil connector that is part of the OEM harness.

 

[Birdoprey]

Could it be that the Tboost takes a pulse from the stock coils to fool the controller it's at 6k.

Do the COP's wiring stray too far from the stock?

This dang computer is soooooo dang slow!

The Tboost would take the negative grounding of a coil to reference rpm just like the stk V-boost controller does. It would then change the info it sends to the controller to fool it as to the bikes actual rpm. Of course, i've not used it nor have i seen any install instructions, but i think i'm guessing correctly. As of now, i can't see how the COP swap would affect anything. The COP wiring is the same as the stk coils. A positive and a negative. The positive has 12VDC anytime the switch is on and then TCI unit grounds the coil to get it to fire(actually, it grounds the coils which charges the coil then when it releases the ground, the coil fires). Works the same as the stk coils. Only difference is the primary resistance. Hmmm...

 

[naughtyG]

Do you think it would make a difference depending on which of the two wires the TBoost was connected to? I'm pretty sure that I tried both and it didn't work, but just wondered.

From memory, when I swapped to the other wire it just stopped working altogether. On the 'right' wire, I get that 9k instead of 3k opening.. So friggin' confused!

The guy who makes them hasn't replied to me since my last email to him, after stating that "there was nothing in the TBoost that could break or make it open at 9000 rpm".

All I can say is BOLLOX, and I'm gonna try to make my own TBoost to see if it works.

 

[Birdoprey]

It would definately make a difference as to which wire your connected to. The +12VDC wire(the only one of the two with power when switch is turned on) will do it no good. It just keeps a steady +12v power supply to the coils. The ground is the one that switches on and off to fire the coils. This is what the stk tach uses as well.
I'll try to download the instructions when i get a chance maybe tomorrow at work. My home computer is acting up. Only thing i can think of is maybe the T-boost changing the resistance of the feed to the v-boost controller(does it use a resister of some type?). The COP's have a lower primary resistance than do the stk coils. Might would need to change the resistance value the same amount as the COPs are lower than the stk coils. Hmmm...

 

[vmax626]

Man,
I don`t know about you guys but my T-Boost works just fine.
As soon as I pull onto the street and go past 3g`s I feel and hear the beast come alive and, it works at 6,000 too and also in the off position where nothing happens.
I have the lone wire hooked up to the orange wire on the #1 cyl. and then to the COP> thats usually when I get the one wheel on ramp runs with the setting at 3 grand. Check and make sure that t-boost wire is hooked to the orange wire and not the red/white wire.unk:
<<Dave>>

 

[gamorg02]

hey guys, thanks for all the comments. just reading thru here.

Anyone have the instructions for the T-boost installation? I assume you did not change ANYTHING with the T-boost wiring when swapping to the COP's?
You can send any instructions to my email address:
[email protected]

mark looks like ur all set with instructions, heres another set, for just switching b/t 6k and 3k:

http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/TBoost.htm

and NO changes to the tboost wiring. just moved everything over to the new coils.

infact, i even put a oem coil back on and tboost worked as designed. i really think it ssomething with resistance...

It would definately make a difference as to which wire your connected to. The +12VDC wire(the only one of the two with power when switch is turned on) will do it no good. It just keeps a steady +12v power supply to the coils. The ground is the one that switches on and off to fire the coils. This is what the stk tach uses as well.
I'll try to download the instructions when i get a chance maybe tomorrow at work. My home computer is acting up. Only thing i can think of is maybe the T-boost changing the resistance of the feed to the v-boost controller(does it use a resister of some type?). The COP's have a lower primary resistance than do the stk coils. Might would need to change the resistance value the same amount as the COPs are lower than the stk coils. Hmmm...

i think we're on to something. it went from 21.9 (stock setup) to (if memory serves me) 10 (COPs) something. i think we'd almost need another 10 ohm resistor in the circuit for tboost eh?

if thats the case i'd probably just make a switch that goes stock, or off. so it cuts power completely ( so i can leave it open all the time) or leave it stock 6k unless its an easy resistor to put in.

Man,
I don`t know about you guys but my T-Boost works just fine.
As soon as I pull onto the street and go past 3g`s I feel and hear the beast come alive and, it works at 6,000 too and also in the off position where nothing happens.
I have the lone wire hooked up to the orange wire on the #1 cyl. and then to the COP> thats usually when I get the one wheel on ramp runs with the setting at 3 grand. Check and make sure that t-boost wire is hooked to the orange wire and not the red/white wire.unk:
<<Dave>>

exactly how mine is. pls double check with a buddy? run the engine and turn it to tboost and watch the servo? make sure when u rev the engine u see it start to open @ 3k and open fully @ 4k?

weird that some are having this issue.

dave, can u also measure resistance of your cops, from one complete end to the other?




also still doesn't explain my backfiring, is that indicative of a loose connection somewhere? i just realized now, both happened after a turn (one, i was gunning it, one i was just cruising). no issue like that before now...:ummm:

 

[Birdoprey]

Garrett,

The stk coil resistance is 3KOhm(i believe the range is 2.6-3 or so?). Most COPs are 1.4-1.8KOhm. If it is a resistance issue, a single resister should have the T-boost seeing the stk resistance and should work normal from there.
This is all speculation for me as of now. I'll know more(i hope anyway!) after looking at the instructions.

 

[vmax626]

hey guys, thanks for all the comments. just reading thru here.



mark looks like ur all set with instructions, heres another set, for just switching b/t 6k and 3k:

http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/TBoost.htm

and NO changes to the tboost wiring. just moved everything over to the new coils.

infact, i even put a oem coil back on and tboost worked as designed. i really think it ssomething with resistance...



i think we're on to something. it went from 21.9 (stock setup) to (if memory serves me) 10 (COPs) something. i think we'd almost need another 10 ohm resistor in the circuit for tboost eh?

if thats the case i'd probably just make a switch that goes stock, or off. so it cuts power completely ( so i can leave it open all the time) or leave it stock 6k unless its an easy resistor to put in.



exactly how mine is. pls double check with a buddy? run the engine and turn it to tboost and watch the servo? make sure when u rev the engine u see it start to open @ 3k and open fully @ 4k?

weird that some are having this issue.

dave, can u also measure resistance of your cops, from one complete end to the other?




also still doesn't explain my backfiring, is that indicative of a loose connection somewhere? i just realized now, both happened after a turn (one, i was gunning it, one i was just cruising). no issue like that before now...:ummm:

Do you mean by unplugging them and measuring the resistance across the posts or from the ignitor to thecop ?:ummm:
or, checking the resistance at the plug ?
any way I can do it tomorrow and give you the numbers.
It`s 9:26 pm. now but tomorrow morning I can do it.
<<Dave>>unk:

 

[Birdoprey]

Just quickly browsed the 3K T-boost mod. Looks like it moniters the NEGATIVE feed from TWO coils. Either coils for cyl #1 & 3 or the coils for cyl #2 & 4. The reason is to for the V-boost controller to see twice the rpm than actual. They use diodes to keep one coil from seeing the grounding of the other. There is a resister, but i don't see it being an issue the way its wired(at the moment at least)
Is this how ya'lls are wired? Please verify that BOTH wires(at the coils) that the T-boost is connected to DO NOT have +12VDC when the ignition switch is turned on.

EDIT:
Just read a little more. Looks like you only connect to one coil and it uses the factory feed for the V-boost. This still moniters two cyls, but saves the installer a little work. Still need to make sure the connection does not have power. As of now, i don't really see a reason the COPs would change anything on a system where the T-boost was correctly working before the COP install. Can't see how the lower resistance would affect it any. Will think on it some more...

 

[naughtyG]

Yea that's it. The VBoost usually monitors just one coil, and the TBoost adds a second one.

The first one can't be changed, as the TBoost we have simply connects between the two halves of the connector under the VBoost controller behind the left cowl.
The second one is wired by plugging it into the coil connector, and then it has a piggyback connector for the original wire.

I'll check mine out tomorrow for voltage on the wire it's connected to, and whether it's the orange one or not. I know that my colors were confusing, but I'm pretty sure all the negatives were still orange.

 

[Birdoprey]

All the negatives should be different in some way. Maybe all orange with different stripes. Or somesuch. All the positives should be the same color for every coil. The coils fire based on being grounded by the TCI, so each cyl needs to be specific. The power feed does not matter, just that all need power.

 

[gamorg02]

Garrett,

The stk coil resistance is 3KOhm(i believe the range is 2.6-3 or so?). Most COPs are 1.4-1.8KOhm. If it is a resistance issue, a single resister should have the T-boost seeing the stk resistance and should work normal from there.
This is all speculation for me as of now. I'll know more(i hope anyway!) after looking at the instructions.

makes sense to me. not sure why i couldn't read my multimeter. so what if i put a 1.2 KOhm in between the Y for the Tboost and the cops (-) plug? should that (in theory) return the resistance to normal? Like i said, putting oem coil/plug in makes it work again.

Do you mean by unplugging them and measuring the resistance across the posts or from the ignitor to thecop ?:ummm:
or, checking the resistance at the plug ?
any way I can do it tomorrow and give you the numbers.
It`s 9:26 pm. now but tomorrow morning I can do it.
<<Dave>>unk:

yea, if u can. altho the wire shouldn't have any resistance ( i think). so if u could just grab the resistance of the coil stick itself (since unplugging might be a pain on the wires)...

Just quickly browsed the 3K T-boost mod. Looks like it moniters the NEGATIVE feed from TWO coils. Either coils for cyl #1 & 3 or the coils for cyl #2 & 4. The reason is to for the V-boost controller to see twice the rpm than actual. They use diodes to keep one coil from seeing the grounding of the other. There is a resister, but i don't see it being an issue the way its wired(at the moment at least)
Is this how ya'lls are wired? Please verify that BOTH wires(at the coils) that the T-boost is connected to DO NOT have +12VDC when the ignition switch is turned on.

EDIT:
Just read a little more. Looks like you only connect to one coil and it uses the factory feed for the V-boost. This still moniters two cyls, but saves the installer a little work. Still need to make sure the connection does not have power. As of now, i don't really see a reason the COPs would change anything on a system where the T-boost was correctly working before the COP install. Can't see how the lower resistance would affect it any. Will think on it some more...

yea basically the tboost i think adds the signal from cylinder #1 to whatever signal the tboost is getting. do we know which signal its monitoring?

Yea that's it. The VBoost usually monitors just one coil, and the TBoost adds a second one.

The first one can't be changed, as the TBoost we have simply connects between the two halves of the connector under the VBoost controller behind the left cowl.
The second one is wired by plugging it into the coil connector, and then it has a piggyback connector for the original wire.

I'll check mine out tomorrow for voltage on the wire it's connected to, and whether it's the orange one or not. I know that my colors were confusing, but I'm pretty sure all the negatives were still orange.

mine is def orange. and was working before. def on (-). but can verify.

All the negatives should be different in some way. Maybe all orange with different stripes. Or somesuch. All the positives should be the same color for every coil. The coils fire based on being grounded by the TCI, so each cyl needs to be specific. The power feed does not matter, just that all need power.

yea all the negatives were all sorts of colors. the positives were all red of sorts.


update: rode into work this morning. no backfiring or issues. tried 1/2 throttle for a second, off throttle maybe 5 times and the last time i did it it stumbled a bit, but that could have been the fact my fuel light came on. anyways. so as of right now i didn't have any issues. couple full on runs too.

i didn't put any electrical tape on the connections between oem wiring and COPs wiring, might do that tonight.