Cranks properly on second or third try only

[Mr. Max]

Hi, I have some issues with my bike, year 2013. When I start the bike with cold engine, with first try the motor won't crank properly, I believe it turns over but very slow and it makes weird sound compared to normal cranking sound. Kind a like battery is running low voltage.

Then power off and on again and second try, then bike usually cranks over with normal speed and fires up after few revolutions. When running, it makes some metallic squeaking noise from gear selector side of engine but this goes away when engine is warm, maybe, I have to check that again.

Bike has fresh oil filter and Yamalube 4 oil in. It has been with very little use for a few years and clutch was not engaging properly at first, but it has got better as I have ridden the bike.

I read somewhere (might be this awesome forum), that these bikes has some kind of pressure release that activates as engine is cranking over, how can I check if this system is working? It might be it, if it is stuck and won't release pressure -> hard to crank over.. I don't believe it is the battery, as in second or third try it cranks over no problem.

Any help is highly appreciated, thanks.

 

[putin]

Sometimes similar thing happened to me on cold start with open choke. But i have 1gen 2007, 30 000 miles. I thought it just a big complicated engine. At least i can start it.

 

[rebeltaz83]

Hi, I have some issues with my bike, year 2013. When I start the bike with cold engine, with first try the motor won't crank properly, I believe it turns over but very slow and it makes weird sound compared to normal cranking sound. Kind a like battery is running low voltage.

Then power off and on again and second try, then bike usually cranks over with normal speed and fires up after few revolutions. When running, it makes some metallic squeaking noise from gear selector side of engine but this goes away when engine is warm, maybe, I have to check that again.

Bike has fresh oil filter and Yamalube 4 oil in. It has been with very little use for a few years and clutch was not engaging properly at first, but it has got better as I have ridden the bike.

I read somewhere (might be this awesome forum), that these bikes has some kind of pressure release that activates as engine is cranking over, how can I check if this system is working? It might be it, if it is stuck and won't release pressure -> hard to crank over.. I don't believe it is the battery, as in second or third try it cranks over no problem.

Any help is highly appreciated, thanks.

Mine does this after sitting overnight.... But I hold the start button until it starts. They take a bit after sitting. Does it start if you hold the button? It takes a good bit on cold starts. Keep the button held and see if it starts. And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you'll know if that compression release ain't working, if it's like anything I had with a compression release, it won't turn over at all.... Even with a full battery, and a charger hooked up on engine boost. I had trx450r and the compression release went out.... Had to pull it down the road, and put all my weight on the rear tires, and dump the clutch in 3rd or 4th gear to get it to start.... Sometimes it would drag the rear tires if I caught it on compression stroke lol. Then I would have to bounce as I dumped the clutch to get it roll over, mind you this was on a single cylinder quad. Few years later Honda issued a recall on the compression release. If they kicked back it would snap the compression release pin off on the camshaft housing, and that was the end of your ride.... Hope your not far from home. I think Yamaha got their act together on these gen 2s. Mine sounds like the battery is gonna die at times, but it starts up, just keep your button held until it starts. They don't start right up like the gen 1s did. Your not the first to post about it, lol. Some have gone with a lithium battery upgrade. I look at it as a quirck with the second gen max.

 

[Mr. Max]

Thanks for posting, maybe I have to try just keep the button in longer. I kept cranking it slow like 3-4s one morning, then power off-on and it cranked faster and fired up with max. 2s cranking. Never had anything like this before lol.

 

[Mr. Max]

I shot a short video of this phenomena today, what do you guys think? It sounds different and cranks faster in second try.. I tried to capture that metallic squeaky sound too, it can be heard on the video but I can't pinpoint that where is it coming from.
Link to video:

Thanks.

 

[rebeltaz83]

That cranks slower than mine does.... Have to wait for somebody else to chime in.... Sounds like battery to me, but the cranking faster after makes no sense lol. Almost like the battery got warm and revived itself. Dirty contacts somewhere I'm guessing. After the first initial crank it's like the contacts get hot and fuse together resulting in a faster crank speed the second time around. I'd start with battery terminals, make sure they are clean, starter cable, ground cable on the frame, then the starter relay, and then the starter, possibly the switch itself on the bar. Look for corrosion, and clean everything you can.

 

[Traumahawk]

That sounds like a battery to me. When my battery was going bad, it still sounded like it was fast enough to start it.......but wouldnt.

Here is mine.....warm, but this is how fast the starter spins. When the bike is cold, the starter will still spin just as fast, but it will take a couple of seconds to start.

 

[ouchez]

Hi, I have some issues with my bike, year 2013. When I start the bike with cold engine, with first try the motor won't crank properly, I believe it turns over but very slow and it makes weird sound compared to normal cranking sound. Kind a like battery is running low voltage.

Then power off and on again and second try, then bike usually cranks over with normal speed and fires up after few revolutions. When running, it makes some metallic squeaking noise from gear selector side of engine but this goes away when engine is warm, maybe, I have to check that again.

Bike has fresh oil filter and Yamalube 4 oil in. It has been with very little use for a few years and clutch was not engaging properly at first, but it has got better as I have ridden the bike.

I read somewhere (might be this awesome forum), that these bikes has some kind of pressure release that activates as engine is cranking over, how can I check if this system is working? It might be it, if it is stuck and won't release pressure -> hard to crank over.. I don't believe it is the battery, as in second or third try it cranks over no problem.

Any help is highly appreciated, thanks.

Max, always install a battery tender lead and keep the battery connected to the tender when not in use. I think it is the battery,,and you may want to replace that.

 

[Mr. Max]

Yep, I ordered new battery just in case, usually if battery is gone it just get worse and worse with every time when trying to start, but this one gets better. I noticed, that I don't have to take power off if it won't start with first try, just a little break and on third try it spins faster and fires up.. Weird. But I'll change the battery, it is always a good place to start when this kind of problems occur.

 

[mavgrab302]

I watch

I shot a short video of this phenomena today, what do you guys think? It sounds different and cranks faster in second try.. I tried to capture that metallic squeaky sound too, it can be heard on the video but I can't pinpoint that where is it coming from.
Link to video:

Thanks.

I was going to say hold button down till it turns over a few times then saw your video. I dont think thats the battery. Both times you started it within the first few seconds sound totally different and sounds correct the second time when first hitting start. It almost sounds like decompression valves not opening 1st time but i dont think the vmax even has those. I did notice exhaust cams on vmax are variable though. No idea but sounds way different first time like something id intermediately Happening on occasion.i wonder if the starter (one way bearings) are hanging?

 

[rebeltaz83]

I watch

I was going to say hold button down till it turns over a few times then saw your video. I dont think thats the battery. Both times you started it within the first few seconds sound totally different and sounds correct the second time when first hitting start. It almost sounds like decompression valves not opening 1st time but i dont think the vmax even has those. I did notice exhaust cams on vmax are variable though. No idea but sounds way different first time like something id intermediately Happening on occasion.i wonder if the starter (one way bearings) are hanging?

The Vmax does have a decompression pin, it's in the cam shaft. If it works like the one in my old honda trx450r it works on centrifical force. That one actually broke, and it wouldn't crank without dragging it and popping the clutch, and still sometimes it would drag the rear tires. I dunno if the mighty V4 would crank without it out not.

 

[Mr. Max]

My first thought was that it might be decompression issue, but man that one is not easy to check is it? Or can it be done through those caps on side of the valve covers?? It said on the service manual, that decompression has some lubrication point, what might that be? I attach pics.

Bike has been in low use past few years with previous owner, so it might be a little "frozen up" here and there.. I just bought this, so this is new bike to me. Dealer made service on it and went the bike through before delivery..

 

[2017VMax]

Don't know if this is relevant, but I found this about decompression pin. I wonder if yours is just stuck. Maybe an engine flush could free it. Also why did you turn the switch off? Does that effect it too?

 

[mavgrab302]

I watch

I was going to say hold button down till it turns over a few times then saw your video. I dont think thats the battery. Both times you started it within the first few seconds sound totally different and sounds correct the second time when first hitting start. It almost sounds like decompression valves not opening 1st time but i dont think the vmax even has those. I did notice exhaust cams on vmax are variable though. No idea but sounds way different first time like something id intermediately Happening on occasion.

My first thought was that it might be decompression issue, but man that one is not easy to check is it? Or can it be done through those caps on side of the valve covers?? It said on the service manual, that decompression has some lubrication point, what might that be? I attach pics.

Bike has been in low use past few years with previous owner, so it might be a little "frozen up" here and there.. I just bought this, so this is new bike to me. Dealer made service on it and went the bike through before delivery..
View attachment 71543
View attachment 71544

it sounds like it is straining on that first start. Almost as if timing is off, if you ever heard that, can’t be that though being the firing order is ‘fixed’. Hard to tell on a video but My best guess would be after riding the decompression pin is stuck ‘in’ and not releasing cam mechanism after the engine is stopped, not pressing down on exhaust valves. I guess this is an erratic issue only happening ever so often but always on the first start? That first gen max sure was bullet proof compared to this new one and that makes me nervous

 

[rebeltaz83]

First I've heard of this. Still bullet proof. First gen had oil o ring issues, second gear issues, shift segments falling apart, death wobble, lol. Just to name a few.... Hell I snapped a shaft on my 97 doing a rolling burnout in second gear. Second gen has been around since 2009 and this is the first case of a possible decomp pin being stuck, and we still don't know for sure.... I've seen batteries with bad cells do some weird shit, so let's not rule that out. Need to do a load test and watch recovery rate.

 

[Itgoes]

I shot a short video of this phenomena today, what do you guys think? It sounds different and cranks faster in second try.. I tried to capture that metallic squeaky sound too, it can be heard on the video but I can't pinpoint that where is it coming from.
Link to video:

Thanks.

Sounds pretty bad on the first attempt but perfectly normal on the second try. The engine is noisy, yours does not sound noiser than normal.

Some batteries.... lithium in particular benefit from being be warmed up a bit especially when they are weak.

I would check the batteries voltage after sitting overnight. You don't even need to put a meter on it, the bike displays the battery voltage in the diagnostics mode.

I'd be surprised if it is the compression release.....my guess is a weak battery or a starter problem.

 

[C2protect]

Hi, I have some issues with my bike, year 2013. When I start the bike with cold engine, with first try the motor won't crank properly, I believe it turns over but very slow and it makes weird sound compared to normal cranking sound. Kind a like battery is running low voltage.

Then power off and on again and second try, then bike usually cranks over with normal speed and fires up after few revolutions. When running, it makes some metallic squeaking noise from gear selector side of engine but this goes away when engine is warm, maybe, I have to check that again.

Bike has fresh oil filter and Yamalube 4 oil in. It has been with very little use for a few years and clutch was not engaging properly at first, but it has got better as I have ridden the bike.

I read somewhere (might be this awesome forum), that these bikes has some kind of pressure release that activates as engine is cranking over, how can I check if this system is working? It might be it, if it is stuck and won't release pressure -> hard to crank over.. I don't believe it is the battery, as in second or third try it cranks over no problem.

Any help is highly appreciated, thanks.

I had the exact same thing 3 months ago. It is your started motor. Not the starter clutch. So replace the starter motor and you'll be good.

 

[C2protect]

I shot a short video of this phenomena today, what do you guys think? It sounds different and cranks faster in second try.. I tried to capture that metallic squeaky sound too, it can be heard on the video but I can't pinpoint that where is it coming from.
Link to video:

Thanks.

It is the starter motor. You turn it over a couple times and it will loosen up. My 09 did it too. Just get a starter motor.

 

[ouchez]

It is the starter motor. You turn it over a couple times and it will loosen up. My 09 did it too. Just get a starter motor.

I wonder if this was caused by a weak battery in the past and the owner over worked the starter too often in the starting process, abusing the starter.

 

[Mr. Max]

I had the exact same thing 3 months ago. It is your started motor. Not the starter clutch. So replace the starter motor and you'll be good.

Was it big/expensive job to do?