EFI conversion on a Gen-1

[apsolus]

And let's give the vboost another mention - in standard form it seems to me to be opening rather too late whilst on wide open throttle - why do I say that? Well you feel the kick. Which means that before it opens the engine is being starved. For plodding around it's fine - better even, probably saves some fuel and makes it easier to ride? Aside from the efi thing, I'de like to make a gismo to fix this, as a trial anyway. Hmmm

my bike came with a control module labelled "sasy" i have the ability to have the v boost open from 2 up to stock 6k rpm.

 

[gentsvmax]

my bike came with a control module labelled "sasy" i have the ability to have the v boost open from 2 up to stock 6k rpm.

A not so cheap gimmick I once had. The Sasy looked cool mounted dead center under my drag bars and I liked the sound of the lumpy idle when full on at 1800 rpm.
I posted here about it and was quickly and rightfully so schooled about how it was really just dumping fuel, a look at my plugs proved it.
Also how the Vmax sweet spot for the Vboost is just were the factory set it in the c.d.i., ~6k . However, I didnt just get rid of it, still looked cool I just didnt use it.
One day we tried it to show its function and nothing was there after the light show, I dont think it lived to see a year just looking cool.....my .02 .

Gent

 

[apsolus]

A not so cheap gimmick I once had. The Sasy looked cool mounted dead center under my drag bars and I liked the sound of the lumpy idle when full on at 1800 rpm.
I posted here about it and was quickly and rightfully so schooled about how it was really just dumping fuel, a look at my plugs proved it.
Also how the Vmax sweet spot for the Vboost is just were the factory set it in the c.d.i., ~6k . However, I didnt just get rid of it, still looked cool I just didnt use it.
One day we tried it to show its function and nothing was there after the light show, I dont think it lived to see a year just looking cool.....my .02 .

Gent

how would it be dumping fuel? its carburated. i thought i t just gave you the ability to open the vboost earlier, no?

 

[MaxMidnight]

how would it be dumping fuel? its carburated. i thought i t just gave you the ability to open the vboost earlier, no?

True but it will be burning the fuel less efficiently therefore you would (probably) use more at lower engine revs.

 

[RempageR1]

It`s a bit off-topic but I think the Vboost indeed opens right around the optimal RPM. There have been some dyno graphs in the internet also showing that opening the Vboost way earlier does not amount to real HP gain. It might however be OK to open it just a _bit_ earlier. Some years ago, I replaced my original CDI(TCI) and Vboost controller by an Ignitech unit. That now opens at 5300RPM on 80%+ of throttle position. For low throttle ranges, I actually made it open later as I don't want to have the Vboost open when riding the German highways at 100MPH just using fuel...

The table below shows the voltages sent to the Vboost servo. 0.2V means fully closed, 2.8V is fully open.




More about that you can find in the Ignitech topics.

 

[RempageR1]

Yes, all of that, and the 3D printed parts, or CAD/CAM parts. Anything that you have fabricated, would either have to be in a digital file where someone could use it to get it manufactured, or do it themselves, if they had the appropriate equipment. Some of the items are re-purposed from other bikes, and there probably are sources to obtain used pieces or where to buy them new. Your software if it's available for a reasonable price along with the individual items, and directions/files on what needs to be fabricated, if it all could end-up at a 'bolt-on' installation, plug & play for-instance, would be attractive if the price-point to accomplish the transition was reasonable. To begin, and to get the concept moving, I think a price point below $1,000 would justify enough interest to make it financially feasible. Being able to be easily tuned via a laptop for whatever mods someone puts into the engine would also make it attractive. Common bolt-ons like full exhausts, NOS kits, and more rarely, superchargers and turbochargers, and larger displacement engines, being able to have the induction side easily modified for these, would enhance marketing possibilities. I suspect the largest market is for relatively stock bikes with aftermarket full exhausts. A primary goal would be power and drivability equal to OEM carbureted bikes. That's a big thing to achieve, as the factory has dozens of engineers working in many areas to get that, and this is a '1-man band,' to your credit.

Hi Fire-medic,

I thought about this for quite a bit and came to the conclusion I cannot make it into a kit. There are various reasons:
- I`m in the Netherlands, shipping to the US would be expensive.
- Some parts needs fabricating like the welding of the bung to the exhaust to add the O2-sensor. Also, there`s the tank modification. That`s not a simple bolt-on of a return line.
- To modify the VFR1200 throttle bodies, quite some steps are required. It`s not just a bolt-on of the brackets, you also need to modify the original shaft to fit the pulley, drill holes, file down other areas, add the rings for the airfilter, the reducers for the manifolds and much more.
- I run the COP`s providing me with space to install the filter/pump as mentioned. Original bikes need some other way of fitting the fuel pump and filter.
- My bike is quite modified with regards to the original wiring-loom. To create a kit, I`d probably need a donor machine.
- The pick-up signal trigger needs to be created for the original `85 and also for a `91+ that has a different flywheel and trigger pattern.
- If the kit doesn't work, it will be almost impossible to troubleshoot remotely.

So the best thing I can think of is that someone in the US creates a kit based on what I`ve done. That person could source the parts locally making it way more likely to be economical viable. He/she could create modified, plug-and-play VFR TB`s like mine (but better looking ). Also, the tank modification could be done over there.

The software is under the GNU license making it free to modify and distribute. I could write the software modification to have the Speeduino run on the `91+ flywheel if someone wants to go that direction. The final tune I will also be happy to share.

I hope that a volunteer will be found to work on this form the US. I`d be happy to help in any way I can.

 

[Fire-medic]

I don't know if Sean Morley is up to something like this, but a person with appropriate skills should be located stateside.

The years for the two different ignition boxes are 1985-1989 and 1990-2007. Each series uses a different pick-up coil and crankshaft rotor. The wire harnesses are different to fit the two sensor '85-'89 system and the single-sensor '90-'07 ignition trigger system.

 

[RempageR1]

I don't know if Sean Morley is up to something like this, but a person with appropriate skills should be located stateside.

The years for the two different ignition boxes are 1985-1989 and 1990-2007. Each series uses a different pick-up coil and crankshaft rotor. The wire harnesses are different to fit the two sensor '85-'89 system and the single-sensor '90-'07 ignition trigger system.

Indeed, those are the years. I said `91+ but it`s `90. The old models have four signals like the one above (4 different pick-ups which all trigger on 1 lobe) while the `90+ has something resembling the bottom one:



The lower signal is based upon what I`ve seen in pictures. There seem to be 5 smaller lobes and one larger lobe.

In theory, you could also run just based on the ignition signal towards coil #1 but that signal is advanced in higher RPM`s so it`s not as precise as using the original crank signal.

 

[Parminio]

I don't know if Sean Morley is up to something like this, but a person with appropriate skills should be located stateside.

The years for the two different ignition boxes are 1985-1989 and 1990-2007. Each series uses a different pick-up coil and crankshaft rotor. The wire harnesses are different to fit the two sensor '85-'89 system and the single-sensor '90-'07 ignition trigger system.

If memory serves, Sean always said that the cheapest and most effective way to fuel inject a Gen 1 is to buy a Gen 2.

 

[V4max]

Yes, and no where near the headaches.

 

[Rick52]

I put Bill Warner’s (wild bros) EFI on my 1500 Tourmaster. Was a nightmare. Two local Illinois tuners couldn’t get it right. I finally trailered to Florida to Bill Warner himself. Got it running decent on his dyno but no real HP gain and lost some torque
Ran like crap off the trailer in Illinois. To be fair the $4K I paid for it did not include his $2 tuning module. I even road tuned with air box cover off and laptop strapped in its place. More than a 10F temp change it started running like crap. I had to upgrade my charging system to handle the electric pump load. My worse nightmare

 

[Fire-medic]

Josh and Parminio, that's true, but the whole aftermarket American hot-rodding movement is based upon trying to squeeze more power out of Detroit iron. Or, a motorcycle engine, in our case. Look at all the companies who supplied equipment after development, to racers, from illegal street racers, to dragstrip competitors, to circle tracks on both dirt and asphalt, to roadracers, and places like Muroc and Bonneville, the Maxton Mile, and others.

I am too-ignorant to try to do a project like RampageR1 has, but I am glad to read of his successes, and what he has had to do to overcome issues along the way. I hope he chooses to get this to a point where it works as-well as OEM induction does, and perhaps makes an easier time of it to tune for mechanical additions, like larger displacement, bigger valves, higher-lift cams, etc.

 

[Parminio]

If I were going to fuel inject a Vmax, the easiest way to go about doing it would be to put the 4 barrel manifold kit on it and then just use an out of the box fuel injection kit on it. Something like this would do it:

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/FiTe...l6HY7rpULaxpvo2-Mo1htItjwxRDKIM8aAq5rEALw_wcB
Done.

 

[V4max]

Fire medic, by no means am I not amazed at what he did and think its something I'd do to my bike if it were something alot less of a headache and something that were a little easier and proven. If someone in the US could conquer it and make a kit and have proven results it damn sure would sell. All im saying is at this point buying a gen2 would be awhole lot safer and proven.

 

[CaptainKyle]

If I were going to fuel inject a Vmax, the easiest way to go about doing it would be to put the 4 barrel manifold kit on it and then just use an out of the box fuel injection kit on it. Something like this would do it:

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/FiTe...l6HY7rpULaxpvo2-Mo1htItjwxRDKIM8aAq5rEALw_wcB
Done.

Actually that has been tried to and still has issues with the odd fire . My buddy in the I was here messed with it for a long time trying to trick it and it never was just right.

 

[Sidecarjohn]

Other than the potential benefits of fuel injection, clearly not easy to master without extensive knowledge and skills, there seem to be other issues.
The iconic Gen1 is very old school and long since disappeared off Yamaha's product list. As such spares are becoming difficult to source. Yamaha don't appear to relate too well to last products, iconic, or otherwise. As a result keeping the 1200, and no doubt in time the Gen2, will be a problem.
So, seeing as the obvious complexities of a working, plug and play injection kit, how about a suitable, off the shelf car carburettor ?
Still old school, but presumably less of a headache to dial in.

 

[V4max]

Not a bad idea

 

[Parminio]

So, seeing as the obvious complexities of a working, plug and play injection kit, how about a suitable, off the shelf car carburettor ?

I would do the same thing as the EFI option: get the 4 bbl. plate and run a square bore Holley. I'd start with a downjetted 450 economaster.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/0..._c1K_I_jdkOJsfqb6vyA6Zv8YxJzWSIhoCR14QAvD_BwE

 

[Fire-medic]

Fire medic, by no means am I not amazed at what he did and think its something I'd do to my bike if it were something alot less of a headache and something that were a little easier and proven. If someone in the US could conquer it and make a kit and have proven results it damn sure would sell. All im saying is at this point buying a gen2 would be a whole lot safer and proven.

The easy way to F.I. and with the Gen. II 12 years old, prices are affordable, <$10K.

 

[V4max]

And alot more power. Only downside is also alot bigger.