Electrical burning smell, engine dies

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mundmc

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Location
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The good news is I already was half-way over the Brooklyn Bridge, so I didn't have to push the VMax too far, as most of the trek was downhill.

Nice 80 degree day, around 50mph at 3000rpm in 3rd, fan override switch on, temp halfway up the gauge.

I smell something similar to plastic burning, the engine goes off moments later, as does all of the electrical, and a little "poof" of white/gray smoke came out around the faux tank where it meets the dashboard/ gauges.

My tools are at home, because I am foolish.
None of the fuses in the fuse box are broken.
No lights when I turn the ignition key.

Any thoughts? I'm wondering if this is something I can easily patch.


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The good news is I already was half-way over the Brooklyn Bridge, so I didn't have to push the VMax too far, as most of the trek was downhill.

Nice 80 degree day, around 50mph at 3000rpm in 3rd, fan override switch on, temp halfway up the gauge.

I smell something similar to plastic burning, the engine goes off moments later, as does all of the electrical, and a little "poof" of white/gray smoke came out around the faux tank where it meets the dashboard/ gauges.

My tools are at home, because I am foolish.
None of the fuses in the fuse box are broken.
No lights when I turn the ignition key.

Any thoughts? I'm wondering if this is something I can easily patch.


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If you have no lights or electric of any sort look under the seat for a 30 amp fuse in the main fuse black box by the battery-it should have a spare 30 amp fuse it there also.
It could also be in either the key switch( check the white connector plug as they fry) or the right side handlebar controls (starter button).
 
If your key switch connector is burnt you can unplug the connector and connect the brown and red wire together to hot wire it.
 
Thank you blaxmax, will check the 30 amp fuse today and will bring my tools to take apart the key switch housing tomorrow.


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I had a similar situation last year. The positive cable wore through and shorted out. I got to push too:damn angry:
 
If your key switch connector is burnt you can unplug the connector and connect the brown and red wire together to hot wire it.

+1 . I'm willing to bet that the connector is the problem.
Take off the dummy tank and look for the white, three-wire connector (also a blue wire)
I had mine fail years ago (the brown and red fused, the bike would not shut off!)
I fixed the problem by eliminating the connector altogether.
Cheers!
 
I smell something similar to plastic burning, the engine goes off moments later, as does all of the electrical, and a little "poof" of white/gray smoke came out around the faux tank where it meets the dashboard/ gauges.

Any thoughts? I'm wondering if this is something I can easily patch.

Despite all of the fine advice above I'm afraid that you will need to get your hands dirty to establish what and where the fault lies.
Their balls may be good but I suspect not made of crystal.

If the main fuse has blown then don't be tempted to try another. The plume of smoke is trying to tell you something.

Once to have found the problem then if it affects a single wire then (depending on the damage) it may be a simple case of re-insulating.
If the burning is more extensive or in in several cables then it may be necessary to cut out and re-solder in replacement wires.

Not difficult but can be time consuming. Once fixed ensure that the cable is moved away from whatever caused it to short out.
 
This is sobering but helpful. I've never done anything electrical in an automotive/ motorcycle setting. So keeping that in mind, I'm wondering if the time it takes me to fix it, taking into account the risk that I screw it up worse, should bring me to a mechanic. (got a new guy I trust).

My VMax is my main form of transportation, and I work on it in the street when it's not raining. Shotgun, carb syncing, and basic maintainence I've learned, but it sounds this might be more of a project.


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The first thing I did when I turned the key on and had nothing was check my main fuse. When I saw that it was fine I next went to the keyswitch. Two wires were touching together and had fused. I pulled them apart and reinsulated them and to this day all is still well.
I also checked balls and they were fine.
 
This is sobering but helpful. I've never done anything electrical in an automotive/ motorcycle setting. So keeping that in mind, I'm wondering if the time it takes me to fix it, taking into account the risk that I screw it up worse...

It doesn't hurt to have a gander under the faux tank. The most difficult part can be finding the pesky blighter but as the wire(s) have smoked then the problem area should be a little more obvious.
A good torch and perhaps a mirror would help. Work in a logical manner, start from one component and inspect the wiring as far as the main loom.
If necessary make a checklist so you know what has been looked at.
It that draws a blank then start looking at the main loom. Eventually you will find somewhere that has chaffed through.
Depending on what you find will depend if you want to have a go or hand it over to someone else.

Whichever way you decide at least you will have some idea what needs to be done and a better handle as to if any charges are reasonable.

You will also have learned a little more about your bike and perhaps take on board something that will come in useful in the future.

Also, I guess that an advantage of working in the street is that you won't be short of 'helpful' advice from passers by?????
 
This is sobering but helpful. I've never done anything electrical in an automotive/ motorcycle setting. So keeping that in mind, I'm wondering if the time it takes me to fix it, taking into account the risk that I screw it up worse, should bring me to a mechanic. (got a new guy I trust).

My VMax is my main form of transportation, and I work on it in the street when it's not raining. Shotgun, carb syncing, and basic maintainence I've learned, but it sounds this might be more of a project.
White smoke emanating from under the faux tank, COMPLETE loss of all power, history of the ignition switch connector failing - why wouldn't you consider a check of the connector or switch as the preliminary step of Root Cause Analysis , Professor Midnight? Is the logic of this flawed in some way?
Keep in mind that if the owner does the investigation and possible repair himself, he has only spent his time, not a lot of money.
And I have also checked my scrotal sac - at this very moment, actually - and my testicles appear to be fine, although one feels a bit unusual, almost as if a crystallization process is happening......
Hope that is not too much information for you.
Cheers!:punk:
 
Ball jokes always improve my day, gentlemen, very appreciated.

Tow-Joe is meeting me at 0800 tomorrow to bring it back to my apartment, where I will get tons of unsolicited advice from Park Slope men who pay people to mount their flatscreen TV's; i'm not hopeful for useful passerby's.

Question on key switch connectors, and wiring in general.
1) How frowned upon is it to fix/ replace one or two wires, as opposed to replacing, say, the entire key switch connector?
2) Are there any "best-practices" for this (e.g. crimping, soddering, disconnects) that you recommend
3) Is there a fairly standard wire that is used in most motorcycle applications (e.g. 14 gauge stranded). I assume the main power running off the 30A fuse uses a larger gauge
4) Should I do the "The Splice" while I'm in there? http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/splice.htm

Many thanks. Needless to say, I hope to be confident enough to put my COPs in once I've cut my teeth on this (thanks Blax).
 
Ball jokes always improve my day, gentlemen, very appreciated.

Tow-Joe is meeting me at 0800 tomorrow to bring it back to my apartment, where I will get tons of unsolicited advice from Park Slope men who pay people to mount their flatscreen TV's; i'm not hopeful for useful passerby's.

Question on key switch connectors, and wiring in general.
1) How frowned upon is it to fix/ replace one or two wires, as opposed to replacing, say, the entire key switch connector?
2) Are there any "best-practices" for this (e.g. crimping, soddering, disconnects) that you recommend
3) Is there a fairly standard wire that is used in most motorcycle applications (e.g. 14 gauge stranded). I assume the main power running off the 30A fuse uses a larger gauge
4) Should I do the "The Splice" while I'm in there? http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/splice.htm

Many thanks. Needless to say, I hope to be confident enough to put my COPs in once I've cut my teeth on this (thanks Blax).

Just to let you know if you are going to pull the ignition switch this would be a perfect time to install those cops. PM me your email address but I am sure I sent 5 pages on installing the cops.I have repaired the wires on one ignition switch before and I have unplugged the 3 prong connector and replaced 2 of them also. I have rebuilt 3 and it feels great when you put them back on and turn the key and all works well. I also use 14 gauge on all my electronics and I do remember my inline 30 amp fuse from my stator to my battery is a larger gauge. If you are running your stock r/r then do the "crimp". I do recommend the article below. Did you read through the reconditioning link below?
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=17281&highlight=recondition
 
Just to let you know if you are going to pull the ignition switch this would be a perfect time to install those cops. PM me your email address but I am sure I sent 5 pages on installing the cops.I have repaired the wires on one ignition switch before and I have unplugged the 3 prong connector and replaced 2 of them also. I have rebuilt 3 and it feels great when you put them back on and turn the key and all works well. I also use 14 gauge on all my electronics and I do remember my inline 30 amp fuse from my stator to my battery is a larger gauge. If you are running your stock r/r then do the "crimp". I do recommend the article below. Did you read through the reconditioning link below?
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=17281&highlight=recondition



Totally a good time to get to those front could, and yes, you sent me in the installation pdf's right away.

I scanned through the reconditioning link, posted previously. It looks frightening, but I'll give it a go if that's the problem.

14 gauge wire, got it.


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I'd fix the problem at hand before making any other changes.

Nothing wrong with having the parts on hand to do the additional work but if you are unexperienced with electrical work take on one project at a time and verify your work is complete and correct before digging into something else. Just makes troubleshooting easier if things don't work out

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Totally a good time to get to those front could, and yes, you sent me in the installation pdf's right away.

I scanned through the reconditioning link, posted previously. It looks frightening, but I'll give it a go if that's the problem.

14 gauge wire, got it.


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After doing 5 or so ignition switches I just read the link I sent you and I would skip removing the airbox and taking out the screws marked with yellow arrows. I also wouldn't worry about #6 either as I never removed any of that. When I had the switch off after taking the plastic back off I removed the mounting plate and erased the contact points. Never needed to go any further.
The reason I suggested you install the cops is that they are plug and play and you are going to go through the same process of removal to get the the housing on the right side of the bike to plug the new cop coupling into the old coil coupling.
You sound to me like you do have the confidence to do this.
 
- why wouldn't you consider a check of the connector or switch as the preliminary step of Root Cause Analysis , Professor Midnight? Is the logic of this flawed in some way?
Keep in mind that if the owner does the investigation and possible repair himself, he has only spent his time, not a lot of money.

And I have also checked my scrotal sac - at this very moment, actually - and my testicles appear to be fine, although one feels a bit unusual, almost as if a crystallization process is happening......
Hope that is not too much information for you.

Errr... wasn't that what I was suggesting?

It doesn't hurt to have a gander under the faux tank.
Depending on what you find will depend if you want to have a go or hand it over to someone else.

Whichever way you decide at least you will have some idea what needs to be done and a better handle as to if any charges are reasonable.

You will also have learned a little more about your bike and perhaps take on board something that will come in useful in the future.

...or have I misunderstood your post?

As for your 'crystallisation' problem, I would go and have that checked out - you wouldn't want it to shatter then next time it is involved with vigorous activity (nudge, nudge, say no more! :eusa_dance:)
 
Errr... wasn't that what I was suggesting?

...or have I misunderstood your post?
Yes, exactly as you were suggesting, Max.
The problem was that I posted my suggestion before checking for updates from you.
My script had taken much longer to type than would be usual, due to the fact I was doing the self-examination, and only had one hand available for the keyboard........:biglaugh:
In any event, still willing to betcha a couple bob that the connector is the problem!
Cheers!
 
Status report (keeping in mind I'm brand new at this): Took her apart today, hoping to find signs of melting near the gauges, and more specifically, on the key switch connector.

At first, I thought I saw an indication the key switch connector harness had problems:
b3be37aacceb37c2bc73c469e8b2498a.jpg
99e78d697e28c0fd2ad20893e5839689.jpg


The contacts to the key were fine, no corrosion. Note, I had not yet taken the shrink tubing off the key switch connector harness (more on that later).

Then I took the airbox off, and noticed some melted plastic along the blue wire of the main wire harness:
58bac2424dad9e9eed52595f6494a8e9.jpg

9ed94d15dc7afa49d7c884e39ed82b1d.jpg


Being not-at-all a genius, I assumed the blue wire touched the frame and caused the 30A fuse to bust. I replaced the fuse, moved the exposed copper wire far away from the frame, and turned the key switch. It immediately blew the 30A fuse.

I looked around a little more (wish I did before), and noticed the blue wire in the main harness was in bad shape in a few places. Here is the line to my tail light:
1c31b80f0702f7d732cd050fb39705ea.jpg

e69f8d599a3fdc0f6da8bbf8f2a0567e.jpg

d500a922816fcacee91ccef70e77e337.jpg

It's notable that the rubber housing around the connectors to the tail light was partially melted, and the disconnects' plastic was all fused together.

Lastly, I did a post-mortem on the key switch connector, and the brown and red were fused in some places, as were the red and blue in other places:
56b2b87f44aad330c79d7d4a1eb5edee.jpg

1380dfbf962cd5433bd43c630761c260.jpg


So... I'm not sure if the first fault was in the key switch or somewhere else in the wiring harness. I suppose it's possible if the blue wire went to ground, the current melted it in more than one place, all at once, but I don't know enough electrical knowledge to support this speculation.

1) I assume I need to replace the wiring harness, and I suppose the key switch connector for good measure. Sigh.

2) Any other sagely advice? Everybody has been extremely helpful.

3) More testicle jokes.

4) Enjoy the 9/11 Memorial lights, taken from my curbside workplace as I close up the patient.
e302041817dae2bcc419eeaed406f5e2.jpg



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