Intermittent shut off...

[Vinmax]

Which bikes have the Denso's stock and which have the Mitsubishi's? I have 2007 R1's and I forgot which ones they are.

I may try and get a different brand to see if there's a difference.

Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

02-07R1's are the same, i think mark said they're mitsubishi.

 

[Birdoprey]

The Denso units are VERY plainly labeled on the top. If not, then they are prolly Mitsubishi's

 

[Vinmax]

Re: Intermittent shut off... I think I found the problem

Hey Guys,
I think I found the problem. At least on my bike. I went riding today. About a 135 miles in the Colorado mountains. The bike this morning, did just one 'shutoff' during low speed riding on the way to get gas.

I thought, shit! I already did the charging system soldering like I said in previous posts, and I was hoping that a low voltage problem was the issue and that the better charging would fix it. Anyway, it didn't do it for the rest of my riding until I came into a small town and slowed for one of those circluar intersections. The bike did it just then. I was thinking, 'I can't even let anyone else ride this thing for fear of them dropping it if it does this and they're not expecting it.'

I came down from the mountains, and it's like 80 degrees or so. I came to an area where they're re-doing the road. I had to wait there about 10 minutes with the bike just a little warmer than riding as usual due to sitting there with the engine on. The bike started to do the shutoff more often. About 4 times in 10 minutes. This thing was getting worse.

I got home, and let it run in the garage. Started to stumble. I looked at the tach, and it dives to 0 whenever the stumble happens. Just then I heard a crackling sound. I looked at my rear #3 cylinder COP. That thing was sparking like crazy, but 'inside' of where the black outer casing hugs the body of the COP. Right in that split area.
I looked at the front #4. Looked good. I looked at the front #2, and it also looked good. I check the rear #1, and that one was sparking worse! Like an almost constant sparking like you see on a spark plug. But this one was going to my engine, not just within itself.

So I have TWO of these things breaking down and shooting sparks. I turned the bike off for about 30 minutes. Went back in to start it up to get some more pictues. I got some of the fist incident, but they came out blurry.
But after 30 minutes of cool down, they are fine. So this problem with these things is temperature dependent.

Now my dilemma is, do I get two more from eBay or buy new. I'm wondering what the life is on these things. Or if there's a manufacturing/engineering problem and the heat eventually gets to them and kills them internally. Either way, I want to keep the COP mod. Right now I know I need at least 2 new COP's. But I just don't know if I should buy 4 new ones or two used.
Anyone else that's having this problem,,,,,,, run your bike to get it fully warmed up. Then bring it in the garage and let it idle to get warmer than usual. turn off the lights in the garage and see if yours is sparking like mine.

Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

hmmm interesting vinnie. don't have a garage to try tho. also just went back to stock, i need the bike as reliable as possible for the next two weeks.

 

[naughtyG]

Re: Intermittent shut off... I think I found the problem

I got home, and let it run in the garage. Started to stumble. I looked at the tach, and it dives to 0 whenever the stumble happens. Just then I heard a crackling sound. I looked at my rear #3 cylinder COP. That thing was sparking like crazy, but 'inside' of where the black outer casing hugs the body of the COP. Right in that split area.
I looked at the front #4. Looked good. I looked at the front #2, and it also looked good. I check the rear #1, and that one was sparking worse! Like an almost constant sparking like you see on a spark plug. But this one was going to my engine, not just within itself.
ee if yours is sparking like mine.

Vinnie

That is very interesting - my problem seems to also be temperature dependent. When my bike starts to stumble and loses #1 cylinder, it's always hot and been running for a while - especially at lower speeds.
I've had a problem with the #1 COP sparking - I would get shocks from touching it or the rubber surround while the motor was running. I have since swapped the COP (I have two sets) and I don't get shocks anymore.
However, the problem remains. The other day when it happened, I pulled the spark plug, put it back in the COP, then held it against the cylinder to check spark. Instead of getting a nice strong spark, I was getting a lot of tiny ones - just like arcing, but on the plug itself. :ummm:

Still don't know if I have a wiring or TCI problem, but it's always on #1 and apparently remains with two different COPs.. I'll try swapping the COP once more too - maybe these things aren't that reliable?

 

[gamorg02]

went back to stock for now, not one issue.

vinnie, i could maybe send you my R1 COPs and you could see if i have 2 good ones in there. without having a garage i think it'd be tough, plus i'm not going to put them back on right away.

 

[Vinmax]

Hey Thanks,
Let me think about that for a bit. For now, what I did was take the 2 metal surrounding pieces off of one of the COP's. I want to see where the arcing is coming from exactly. I don't see any cracks in the plastic so far, but I'm wondering why myself, plus some other guys are seeing this.

I don't think that these things run too hot with the Vmax being that they're exposed to the air. But being that I got them used from an R1, I wonder if they get damaged from the sportbike that they were in, running too hot..

I'm also thinking that if no one is having problems with the Denso's, then maybe the Mitusbishi's have issues.

I may try and get a hold of some Denso units.

Anyone know if the R1 units are considered 'long' or 'short'? The actual size of the R1 units I have fit perfect and if I do get Denso's, I want them the same exact size.
Also, what sportbike used the Denso's in the size I want?

Vinnie

 

[naughtyG]

I have two sets of Denso's, both are 'long' but still fit fine - you just have to put the rear ones at a slight angle to get them on and off.
One set came off a Honda 939, the other off a Suzuki 600 I believe.

 

[Vinmax]

Thanks for the info. It's getting late and I was just being lazy. I looked back on old posts from Birdofprey and found all the information he posted as to what bikes use long and short cop's and which ones are Denso's.

I'm going to look for some short Denso's and try those out.

Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

i have longer denso's coming in from mark. like i said tho, that will happen later once i get back from the trip. oem is working great for now.

 

[Redbone]

I received my long COP's (Denso) from Mark yesterday and going to install later this morning along with my wider flanders drag bars. I'll let you guys know if there are any issues.

 

[Vinmax]

I have 4 short Denso's coming from a guy on eBay. I'll install them and let you know how it turns out.

I don't even want to mess with the Mitsubishi's anymore. To have 2 of them fail (maybe more) on my bike, plus that I hear at least one of you guys has had the Mitsubishi's fail, make me not want to even deal with those anymore.

Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

i hear ya. i'll try the denso's as well and if they work i may get some short ones. with all the shit thats bolted on my engine anything longer would be atrosious to try.

 

[Vinmax]

Intermittent shut off...SOLVED!

I got a set of GSXR 1000 (2007) COP's from eBay. These are the short Denso units. Has a little sticker on each one that says Denso. They looked just like new and I got them for 29.99

I removed my Mitsubishi units that were from a 2007 Yamaha R1. I installed the Denso units and found that the plug is exactly like the Mitsu units. So no wiring issues at all and nothing to change or modify. Just plug these babies in and go.

I went for a 122 mile ride yesterday. I did lots of low rpm cruising through some areas in small towns. I stopped and let the bike idle quite a few times to let it really heat up because the last ride with the Mitsu units, I noticed that the heat really made them act up.

Not one issue all day! No sparking from the COP's to the block. No intermittent shutoff. No problems when the bike was running really warm. It's been months since I had a ride, especially with making it run warm and giving it lots of low rpm/high gear, that I didn't have at least one stumble.

So I guess this issue is over for me (keeping my fingers crossed). I think that if all of us that were having this problem were using the Mitsubishi COP's, then maybe that is the general problem in a nut shell. If only the Mitsu's are causing this, then maybe there's a manufacturing defect or something. I don't know if the heat and vibration of a motorcycle made these crap out of if they just were defective from a manufacturing or engineering standpoint.

Either way, I'm happy that this is fixed, but still would like to know if anyone that is having this problem is using only the Mitsu's. If you are, then I'd dump them and get Denso's and not even try to find 'good' Mitsu units. I had (2) that were visibly bad and sparking outside the coil case. But who knows what the other two were doing inside. Maybe they even had internal shorts that were killing the TCI and shutting the whole ignition off intermittently. I didn't even want to bother with finding another couple of good Mitsu units. Not worth it. I'm glad that my TCI is not blown from what these things were doing. From now on, only the Denso units for me,,,, so long as these hold up

Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

sounds good vinnie. keep us updated. got my denso's in will try them later. if they fit.