Lycan Engine Build

[TURBOVMAX]

Ok this should be good one. As you've probably read in the other thread I'll be building another bike... The Lycan. During the Winter I'll be fabing up a 4130 chrome molly frame. To build the frame you need an engine. What I'll do in this thread is take you through the process of building a high performance engine. The one I'll be building will be very exotic, but the process of the engine build is the same as building a stock one.


Along the way I'll supply you with the info to build your own and will offer some tools to do the work. You'll learn how to:

• Size crank and rod bearings
• Degree cams
• Do a chain drive conversion
• Learn where to get machine work done

Here are the preliminary specs for the Lycan Turbo Engine.

• 1327 80mm Bore 8.5-1 JE Pistons with an 8mm Stroked Crank (1488 CC)
• Hayabusa connecting rods (Thank You Mark)
• Dry Sump oil system

The engine is going to be a bit different in that the heads will be oriented this way. Don't let that discourage you! The basic engine building is still the same. The reason I'll be doing it this way is to keep the primaries going to the turbo as short as possible. So the turbo will be mounted between the V .

 

[rumblethump]

Sounds great.I'm ready.

 

[RagingMain]

This is going to be awesome!!!

 

[one2dmax]

Sounds cool! I debated a stroker crank but there isn't a ton of room in the block for it from the little I looked at it. And the rod ratio gets worse. I do like the heads flipped around.

Sean

 

[Redbone]

A fresh stack of legal sized notepads and a box of No.2 pencils, and fresh pot of coffee. I'm defiantly interested in this process.
Thank you in advance Gary!

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sounds cool! I debated a stroker crank but there isn't a ton of room in the block for it from the little I looked at it. And the rod ratio gets worse. I do like the heads flipped around.

Sean

I've wanted to do one for a long time myself. It wasn't until Mark brought up the fact that a Busa rod will work did I decide to try one. THANKS MARK! He has this uncanny ability to get me to try crazy things like the EFI project. Having been down that road of trying to squeeze every bit of power out of a normally aspirated engine. Trying it and having to buy a set of expensive rods, head work and pistons etc. would have made the $ risk factor quite high. Just put a turbo on it.

The Busa rods will support some serious horsepower (300 plus) and if you polish and shot peen them, it will make them all the more durable. The good ... their dirt cheap! Because the Busa is like a cockroach... even looks like one if you squint and stare long enough.:biglaugh:

As far as the rod ratio is concerned... couldn't care less. Guess you could debate it till the cows come home. Now a days top engine builders put it way down on their list of concerns.

While I'm on the subject of engine math it's a good time to recommend a good book and web site for you guys or gals that are interested in building engines. The book is a little pricey, but well worth it especially if you intend to build a high performance engine some day.

Reher Morrison

Here's a good tech article with David Reher's opinion on rod ratio. Rod Ratio

As soon as I get Mark squared away I'll make up a mock crankshaft to see if the cases will clear the stroke. I should mention that I intend to run the engine normally aspirated at first. So it should be fun to get some base line numbers on the engine. The torque numbers are what I'm most interested in. Should be some pretty significant gains at the lower R's.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

A fresh stack of legal sized notepads and a box of No.2 pencils, and fresh pot of coffee. I'm defiantly interested in this process.
Thank you in advance Gary!

Just keep them avitars coming... Should be fun! unk:

 

[RagingMain]

Just keep them avitars coming... Should be fun! unk:

I would love very much to keep that avitar "coming"
Sorry couldnt help myself unk:

 

[Birdoprey]

The Busa rods "may" offer more room due to the bolt design. Lots of cool things about being able to use them, one of which is that they Allow for a relatively cheap increase in cc's, depending on how you do it. Planning to do this myself with a Venture 1300 block. Will give me 1451cc's and does'nt comprimise cyl wall thickness(which is why most big bore V-max's run hot) Rod ratio would be around 1.62, which is well within whats "considered" ok. I'm not concerned about the ratio either though. Piston speed will need to be considered, especially if using stk pistons(yep, thats what i said). I've run some engine simulations on my computer and even with a 1000rpm lower limit, average hp/tq are MUCH more than the stocker. Peak hp is about the same, but hp AND tq everywhere else is higher, especially down low/mid rpm.
Will be a COOL project for sure!

 

[Birdoprey]

I've wanted to do one for a long time myself. It wasn't until Mark brought up the fact that a Busa rod will work did I decide to try one. THANKS MARK! He has this uncanny ability to get me to try crazy things like the EFI project.

Me!? Your old age is betraying you my friend! I believe you asked ME to get this EFI project started! I'm just paying ya back with the stroker...:eusa_dance:
I think its "Tha Fever", "Tha Sickness" or whatever the heck it is. Can't think clearly and keep getting myself in over my head!

 

[Dr.n2o]

Gonna go get me a set of busa rods and a used max crank that is "ripe for stroking" :eusa_dance:

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Gonna go get me a set of busa rods and a used max crank that is "ripe for stroking" :eusa_dance:

Cool! Your ripe crank should be a crank that is as good as new... no cracks, no spun bearings etc. A good place to start would be Ebay, looking for a 1300 Venture or a Vmax crank. Even better look for a short block, especially if your wanting to do the chain drive conversion. Pinwall on Ebay usually has a couple of Vmax short blocks listed. If you find a short block you can keep riding your bike until you get to the point where we start working with the heads. Then simply take the heads off of your existing engine and use them to complete the project.

This brings up a good point... if your wanting to build a stroker. Once I do the clearance check I'll be sending my crank out for modification. If enough people are interested and we send the cranks out at the same time. There may be a significant price break on getting the cranks reworked. The target date to send mine out is Nov 2. It's all about machine setup time.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Here's a picture that shows the difference between the Busa Rod and the Vmax. Kind of interesting that Suzuki really reduced the web width down at the big end. I'll be posting some dimensional info to go along with the rods later. There will be some modification to the rods we'll need to do. Nothing major. As Mark pointed out the rod bolts are more consistent with todays high performance rods. Remember the Vmax was developed in the early eighties. Maybe that's why we spin rod bearings... everybody always blames the poor old crank.

 

[Birdoprey]

I believe you will find that the Busa rod will make up for the added stroke due to it being smaller at the shoulders and also at the bottom of the rod(including the bolt heads). You'll have the final word Gary, once you get in there. I'm excited!

 

[one2dmax]

I've got a few cranks laying around that would be cool to use depending on price. I wonder if we can reuse the stock piston or when you cut the crank if the final deck height will be similar??? I've got a 1570 chain drive block that would be huge (1680cc) if we could do the same crank mod.

Sean

 

[TURBOVMAX]

I've got a few cranks laying around that would be cool to use depending on price. I wonder if we can reuse the stock piston or when you cut the crank if the final deck height will be similar??? I've got a 1570 chain drive block that would be huge (1680cc) if we could do the same crank mod.

Sean

That 1688 would be quite a thumper. The Busa rod length is 119.5 and the Vmax 124. The difference is 4.5mm so the deck height should be fine. The 8mm stroke is a rough number right now. The wrist pin dia of the Busa rod is 20mm verses the Vmax 19mm. So we can either re-bush the rod or modify the piston. During the next couple of weeks I'll do the mock crank rotation assembly to see what we have for clearance relative to the crank throws etc. So using the stock pistons may work out... all depends on how far we suck that piston down relative to the crank.

For those of you who have no idea as to what we're talking about.... here's a good explanation. STROKING AN ENGINE

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Me!? Your old age is betraying you my friend! I believe you asked ME to get this EFI project started! I'm just paying ya back with the stroker...:eusa_dance:
I think its "Tha Fever", "Tha Sickness" or whatever the heck it is. Can't think clearly and keep getting myself in over my head!

You can call me Grampy if you'd like h yeah:

 

[satariel666]

Yep, busa rods are almost indestructable. I even risk to say that one of the strongest STOCK rods ever made.

I may have busa engine with good rods, must ask my buddy.

Gary, whats the difrence in the big end?
If not that much you can always resize big end?
Why make life complicated with expensive crank mods?
Not trying to be an ass, just my toughts...
I have my plans with replacing stock rods at winter, been thinking about Falicon knife rods but busa conversion may change it


Anyway, as alyways you have crazy ideas but i like them a lot :biglaugh:
You just kill me with that swaped heads :worthy:
Keep it up, big fan of this mod here.

And +1 to your theory with rods/crank.
I've read an technical article from Egli Rancing. He have an intresting theory with this. Very similar to you, with the main issue at mass centralization, to much in the big end. And more that V type engines have much more vibrations at the crank.
More to say from me that i can live with shape of stock v-max rods but hell cant stay with the material they're maded. They felxy like the whole bike.
Wonder how much they can streth at high rpm. 10mm? LOL


He claimed that also stock plane bearings are pain in the ass.


Cheapo:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Haya...ies?hash=item3ca54ab42a&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Yep, busa rods are almost indestructable. I even risk to say that one of the strongest STOCK rods ever made.

I may have busa engine with good rods, must ask my buddy.

Gary, whats the difrence in the big end?
If not that much you can always resize big end?
Why make life complicated with expensive crank mods?
Not trying to be an ass, just my toughts...
I have my plans with replacing stock rods at winter, been thinking about Falicon knife rods but busa conversion may change it


Anyway, as alyways you have crazy ideas but i like them a lot :biglaugh:
You just kill me with that swaped heads :worthy:
Keep it up, big fan of this mod here.

And +1 to your theory with rods/crank.
I've read an technical article from Egli Rancing. He have an intresting theory with this. Very similar to you, with the main issue at mass centralization, to much in the big end. And more that V type engines have much more vibrations at the crank.
More to say from me that i can live with shape of stock v-max rods but hell cant stay with the material they're maded. They felxy like the whole bike.
Wonder how much they can streth at high rpm. 10mm? LOL


He claimed that also stock plane bearings are pain in the ass.


Cheapo:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Haya...ies?hash=item3ca54ab42a&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

LOL... My wife thinks I'm crazy too. I've destroyed a few crankshafts mostly always the middle rod bearings. I believe the problem lies mostly with the stock oil system. There are lots of engines out there with plane bearings making huge horsepower.

Early on I switched over to the over drive oil pump and the oil system got better. But still got that oil light once in while under hard acceleration. So I installed a pressure transducer and data logged the oil supply at the end of the crankshaft. I found that the oil pressure was all over the place. That's when i decided to do something with the pan. So I built this pan and never had a problem with the oil pressure again.

I believe the oil gets aerated form sloshing around in the stock pan. So now I'll do a dry sump setup which will serve two purposes one put the oil where I want it and two create some crankcase vacuum. I intend to spray the pistons from the bottom up which will probably help with the other Vmax problem which is wrist pin lubrication and will cool the pistons for my Turbo application. The problem with doing the dry sump is the oil tank location on a stock MAX. By flipping the heads around the tank could be mounted up front and resemble a belly pan and it would be nice and cool there. How do you like those crazy ideas?

Those busa rods are a bargain! And there's plenty out there.

 

[naughtyG]

For those of you who have no idea as to what we're talking about.... here's a good explanation. STROKING AN ENGINE

I am a little miffed by your theory. If you're going to use shorter rods with stock pistons, you'll need to increase the distance between TDC and BDC in order to add to the stroke dimensions, right?

What confuses me is how do you mod the crank to achieve this? Don't you end up with a more fragile crank with less metal where the big end bearings go, or are you planning on forging a new crank from scratch? :ummm: