My turn

[tothemax93]

Had an issue at work so they had me stay home today. There's a local guy with a dyno and he's having a special. He usually gets $110, but this spring he's getting $79 for a horse power run, a driveability run and a milage run. I can't do any work there, but I can get a base line. Always good to know. Hopefully the next time I'm on, I should have the results.

 

[Traumahawk]

Good....I'm a firm believer that people ALWAYS need a baseline for they start changing stuff on the bike.

 

[tothemax93]

Can't say I'm happy, actually pretty sad, but I have a ton more potential. As far as seat of the pants dyno. I really felt it was running quite well, especially from 6000 to redline. Also had good driveability. I only got to the drags once since I put the muscle kit in, and it ran 7.40 without any adjustments. more of a starting point, and thats pretty much where it stands today. My best time before the muscle kit was 7.28 with just marks 4-1 and needles shimmed. Fast forward to today.
I talked with the guy about what I need to do, but I'm actually more interested in your opinions. Let the advice begin. Keep in mind to, that the air temp was 57 degrees

 

[tothemax93]

It has right now. Marks 4-1
Morleys muscle kit
152.5 main
stage 7 needles at 3.5 clip, factory springs
a/f 3 1/2 turns out.
700 ft elevation

 

[Traumahawk]

I would drop the mains to 150's or 147.5's.....It looks like your running really rich. What I was always told...."Rich is safe...lean is fast".

I would also think about dropping the needles a bit...3rd or 2nd clip from the blunt end.

Also if I remember correctly going up on PAJ2 will lean out the midrange...

 

[tothemax93]

I would drop the mains to 150's or 147.5's.....It looks like your running really rich. What I was always told...."Rich is safe...lean is fast".

I would also think about dropping the needles a bit...3rd or 2nd clip from the blunt end.

Also if I remember correctly going up on PAJ2 will lean out the midrange...

I think your right Hawk. I'm trying to decide which one of the 2 to go with, with the mains. I don't know how drastic the size drop is. The dyno guy suggested the 147.5's. The dyno shop stopped there $79 special, so I know I'm not going to keep going back for confirmation at $120 a pop. I"ll get as much advice as I can here first. I'll get the mains changed, then I'll probably drop down the needles down and watch the plugs for changes. It is hard not to jump in, and change 2 or 3 things.

 

[dannymax]

Tim, is there a stretch of road where you can do the 4K - redline throttle chop followed by a plug reading? It's a pretty unhandy exercise, finding a spot where the cops aren't, etc. but I've heard it gives decent results once you get good at it.

Personally, I like the dyno-tune the best but it does get pricey!

 

[tothemax93]

I'll get back to the dyno at least another time. I just need to get it closer by ear first. The dyno was pretty interesting to watch. It wasn't just the usual hammer it for horse power. He did a normal driving run, and he could even brake it down gear by gear. He took a lot of time with me.

 

[one2dmax]

Did he make repeated runs until the engine quit making power? Looks like 1-2 sizes richer on the main and a lot rich on the needle.

 

[tothemax93]

Did he make repeated runs until the engine quit making power? Looks like 1-2 sizes richer on the main and a lot rich on the needle.

He didn't make repeated runs for power. He did 4 pulls in varying ways, such as normal driving etc. Probably to see where the A/F is in regular driving. Only did one for HP. That is one of my questions about the jets. On the graph at around 7,000 to red line it looks to be around 11.8 to 12. I wondered how much change do you get out of going one jet size. Like I said, the dyno guy suggested 147.5, but he has no where near the expertise on this bike, and these carbs as you guys. He also said when the temps warm up it will go even richer. It was 57 when we did it. I know one thing. It's gonna be a new beast when I get it right. I thought it was running good now.

 

[Traumahawk]

He is right. At idle "cold" my A/F is around 14 to 1, when the temp gauge is halfway, the A/F drops to 13.2 to 1.

 

[tothemax93]

I decided to change the mains from 152.5 to 147.5. Got that all done. When I was synching the carbs my fuel light came on. So even though it was low 40's i thought it would be a good time to gas up and go for a quick test. Definately pulled harder on top. I'll play around with it more today. Check the plugs as I go. I think next I'll Drop the needles to 2 1/2 clip from 3 1/2.

 

[tothemax93]

Tried a little more tuning today. rode around a bit with the 147.5 mains. Bike felt good. I'm getting a little blueing on the exhaust near the heads, but not to far down. Next I dropped the needles from 3.5 clip to 2.5 clip. Ran terrible so I went up to the 3 clip and if ran better. At the 2.5 clip it ran good when I ran hard through the gears, but around 4000 to 4500 it ran poorly at cruising speed. So i settled on the 3rd clip. After that I went after the A/F. They were at 3.5 turns out. I moved the to 2.5 as a starting point. Felt a little weak on the lower RPM's and I think a little knocking. Went up to 3 turns out and it was better. I ended up at 3 1/4 turns out. Pulled the plugs. The ceramic was white, but not bright snow white. The strap was greyish, A dark ring around the base of the plug, nothing wet with gas. Should have taken a pic. I've done what I can to lean it, and still feel it has good driveability. If i can, I'd like to hit the dyno one more time. I'd still like to do the 8-9000 RPM plug chop. I'll have to get an ove-glove, so I can check the plugs when it's so hot. Thanks for everybodys advice.unk:

 

[customizedcreationz]

An over-rich mixture can cause a blue spot to appear far down the pipe where the unburned gas ignites on a baffle or hot spot. A very lean mixture or timing that is too advanced can cause pinging and the extra hot gas can cause the pipe near the head to blue severly.

Over rich can cause a blue spot far down the pipe where the unburned gases ignite on a obstruction or hot spot ( baffle etc ). A very lean mixture can cause the pipes near the head to blue alot.

Where is your blueing happening and how bad is it? I mean on all the pipes or just some?

I am guessing over rich possibly.

You need to check your plugs as mentioned. You need to make a full on pass in 4th gear, and cut the ignition at like 10,000 rpm and coast to the corner of the road and pull a plug or plugs and see. If you don't cut the ignition right at high rpm and the rpm drops back down even a little, your plugs check will not be accurate.

Todd

 

[customizedcreationz]

I must have missed your last post. White plugs are lean plugs, you want slightly off white to tan plugs. But until you check it at full throttle you wont really be able to make a good decision unless you dyno it.

Mine were slightly lean, but if I did a regular check they were white. If I did a plug chop there were tan. The rears were always slightly less color than the fronts. I would only assume because they didnt get the same cooling as the front cylinders.

Todd

 

[tothemax93]

Went back to the dyno friday. 147.5 mains
3 1/4 turns AF
3 1/2 clip on stage 7 needles
Morleys muscle kit
Marks 4-1
Basically the same as the first run except I dropped the mains from 152.5 to 147.5's

I gained 10 HP. Still poor by Vmax standard, but a considerable gain.



Still consistantly rich. Logic says I need to drop the needles which i did before the dyno run, but driveability was horrible, Started at 2 1/2 and as I came back up to the 3 1/2 it was the best. Do I dare drop the mains another size. Here are some of the driveability runs.



It's interesting that the ruffly same place it dips richs in the horsepower pull, it goes lean on the hard acceleration pull.




Any and all advice is welcome.

 

[Traumahawk]

Have you checked your float level? If they are off....that can cause you to go rich or lean.

 

[tothemax93]

I had Danny do a carb cleaning and set the float levels for me this spring.

 

[Traumahawk]

Well then you could do 145's....it hasnt been unheard of.

 

[one2dmax]

Yea, go smaller if you need to.