Newbie, needs help. 13-17mpg now it won't run.

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Kenom

Kenom

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Joined
May 27, 2012
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Location
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As many of you know, i'm fairly new to this forum. I'll be honest, I know VERY little about carburetors and this bike is really beginning to run horribly. I've tried a few of the more commonly recommended tricks, like the peashooter, and shooting the shotgun and putting a few cans of seafoam thorugh. Nothing I do to the carbs is making any real difference and the gas mileage on this thing is HORRIBLE. I get about 45 miles before the reserve fuel light comes on.

Here is my setup. I've got a '99 V-max. Stage 7 Kit, K&N air pods, and Kerker 4-1.

I just recently (within the last 45 minutes) took apart carb 1 to do the shotgun again, and noticed a incredibly small hole in the diaphragm. I mean incredibly small. .01" small. I did the shotgun, reassembled it without repairing the small hole, and now it won't even start with the choke completely on. Prior to this issue, When it did run, it would stutter when first accelerating. then would be incredibly rough at WOT. Would maintain a cruise O.K. but not great.

I've a few questions that my haynes manual won't address. Do the A/F screws on each side need to be relatively the same? How does a person determine where is the correct setting for the A/F screw? What other settings need to be done... I mean where in this forum is a Carbs for dummies or newbies? I've seen the rebuild thread, I've seen the shotgun thread... any other suggestions? This bike is totally behooving me.. HELP PLZ.

Here is a picture of the micro hole in the diaphragm:
DSC01086%20%283%29.JPG

Also, I dropped this and did a small amount of damage to it. I don't think it affects functionality as it doesn't seal tight against anything where it sits.
DSC01087.JPG
 
I do want to say, I just purchased this bike so didn't know what was done to it prior to owning it. It has sat for a long time (+1yr) without any riding. I don't know if the stage 7 was done properly, if the jets or anything was set properly. The butterfly's for the v-boost have been removed and the boots in between the carbs don't seem to be installed well. It could be anything that is wrong with this bike, and since I'm new, I really don't know where to look. However, since I recently did the shotgun on that one carb and it went from running semi ok, to not at all, something is wrong with the carb I just fiddled with.
 
some bikes have the same number of turns for each carb. some have totally different number of turns. It depends.

to determine the number of turns warm up your bike first. then working on 1 carb, totally close the a f r screw. the bike will start to stumble. slowly open the screw until the bike recovers. move on to the next carbs and repeat. sometimes the bike will not stumble. in this case increase your idle to something like 2500-3000 RPMs and then proceed with the closing and opening of the screws as I have previously described, finishing up by returning your idle back to 1000 RPMs.

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android
 
well as an example, on the one side, one is set to 2 7/8 out and the other is 3 1/8 out. Seems pretty close to me. would an adjustment of 1/8 really make that much difference? I.E. Not even starting when it was before. How much of an impact is that micro hole in the diaphragm going to make?

Since the bike needs to idle to determine the correct setting for the A/F screw and I can't get this to idle, that will have to be tackled once we get this running smooth.
 
Any hole or tear in the diaphragms will affect the running - you need to replace/repair that one. The damage from dropping it isn't good either - do yourself a favor and get a replacement from Sean ([email protected]) or Kyle ([email protected])

The main thing to get a Max's carbs to run good is SYNC. If the carbs are out of sync it'l run like crap or not at all. It's piss easy to sync the carbs but you need a balancing tool to equalize the vacuum between them. Carbtune is about $100, or you can make your own for about $15 - do a search here to find out how.

The A/F screws can only be adjusted perfectly using an A/F sniffer on a dyno. Most use 2.5 turns out as a starting place and then adjust by 1/8 to 1/4 turn either way until happy with how the bike runs.

Having a stage VII and pod filters doesn't make it easy to troubleshoot, and no vboost butterflies makes it harder again.

If the bike has sat a long time it's most likely you need to tear through the carbs, clean everything thoroughly and replace any rubber that has perished - especially the jet block plugs.

Also make sure to check you needle valves and seats, and also take a good look inside your fuel tank with a flashlight to make sure it isn't rusty as that's the number one cause of wreaking havoc in carbs.
 
Yeah I really really wanna get this bike back to stock. I'm not liking the stage 7 AT ALL, plus not having the v-boost butterflies. If I could find someone to trade for a stock carb, I'd do it in a heartbeat!

In the meantime, I'll fix the tear with some silicone I'm really on a tight budget at this moment as I'm unemployed. I really don't think the damage to the slide is that significant. If it plugged up something in the carbs when it was in place like the needle, then I'd say it was significant. However, I can be wrong and most likely am.

I have checked the tank and there is no debris that I can see. It looks nice and clean in there. I've also looked at the filter and there appears to be nothing in it as well. I will pull it tomorrow and see if any debris comes out when it's removed.

am I correct that the PAJ1, PAJ2, and Main Jet Air Bleed were replaced with the stage 7? How hard is it to remove them for cleaning?
 
Suspect you will not make significant progress until the carbs are synche - start by acquiring a set of V Boost butterflies so at least you will be able to do this.

You need to fix the diaphragm - try re-sealing it first if not replace.

I take your point regarding the slid but it may affect the way the air flows over it with unknown consequences. If it were mine I'd replace it.

Remove the jets (main, PAJ1 & 2) and note which ones are fitted; also what position the needles are in.

Carefully inspect the inlet rubbers from the inside to ensure that they are not cracked and allowing air in.

Wash out the filters and re-oil.

I appreciate that dosh is tight but as the bike is new to you and has stood it would be prudent to do a full service (or as much as you can afford) to ensure that the basics are right.

Change oil and filter
Change brake fluid
Change antifreeze
Fill the tank with fresh go juice.
Check the operation of all lights & indicators.
Check the operation of the starter interlock.
Check and top-up battery electrolyte (if appropriate).
Grease the battery terminals
Lubricate: Clutch, gear-change & brake levers; brake pedal, side & cenrtestand pivots & throttle cables.
Check and adjust throttle cable free play.
Check condition of tyres and inflate to correct pressure.
Check tightness of fasteners.

Depending on age, mileage and condition also consider:
Replace fork oil.
Remove disk pads to inspect and clean around brake pistons.
Check and adjust tappet shims.

By the time you have sorted that lot you will (hopefully) have acquired some V Boost butterflies so now you can synch the carbs and will have fixed the throttle slide and diaphragm.

If you God is smiling upon you the bike will start first press of the button and run like as sweet as a sewing machine.

If not.....

You could try to best guess what the fuelling is doing (doing a plug chop would be a good starting point) OR spend a little more of your hard earned and put it on a dyno (the bike, not your money) so that you KNOW what it is doing and will give you a starting point from which to sort it.

Good luck! :rofl_200::rofl_200:
 
Fix the hole in the slide as best you can.

I would not worry too much about the chip in the plastic as long as it is not cracked the whole way thru or so rough that it is going to hang up in the carb. Doesn't look like that is an issue though

So you did the shotgun and the peashooter and now the bike won't start?
Pull the sparkplugs! If you can afford to replace them, do it. The auto parts store charges about 1.50/plug versus the 4.00 @ the bike shop. If not, at least clean them up and then try to start the bike. The plugs are probably due anyways after running around getting 45 miles on a tank of fuel!

Either the bike is jetted wrong or those carbs need gone thru badly. Either way, I would take them off the bike and disassemble to see what you have going on in there. It will eliminate any guessing.
 
Sounds like one issue is dirty carbs....not starting after the shotgun tells me that doing the shotgun moved some crud around in the carbs but didn't eliminate it.


Start by doing the shotgun & peashooter again, see if there is any difference.

Then, if it starts, plan on doing a vacuum sync before going any further....if it doesn't start dis-assemble and thoroughly clean them....the one year of sitting....with today's shit gas....didn't do the bike any favors.

Good luck! :punk:
 
Mkay, anyone recommend a good silicone sealer for the diaphragm? I've gone to o'reilly's and looked at all the silicone sealants and none of them are good for gasoline. I did get one Anaerobic gasket maker, but it doesn't dry. Still stays tacky.

I know that gold permatex isn't good. What has anyone else used?
 
Kenom said:
Mkay, anyone recommend a good silicone sealer for the diaphragm? I've gone to o'reilly's and looked at all the silicone sealants and none of them are good for gasoline. I did get one Anaerobic gasket maker, but it doesn't dry. Still stays tacky.

I know that gold permatex isn't good. What has anyone else used?
Click to expand...

Heard YamaBond or Honda Bond will work for tiny diaphragm holes, but have never tried it.

It looks like two of your plugs sat under water, make sure all your drain holes are open.
 
I'd think Yamabond 4 would be fine. It is a flexable and adhesive sealant. I got hooked on it at work years ago and still use it a lot, though not on a diaphram yet. I've also herd of silicone used to fix a hole.
 
Kenom said:
Yeah I really really wanna get this bike back to stock. I'm not liking the stage 7 AT ALL, plus not having the v-boost butterflies. If I could find someone to trade for a stock carb, I'd do it in a heartbeat!

In the meantime, I'll fix the tear with some silicone I'm really on a tight budget at this moment as I'm unemployed. I really don't think the damage to the slide is that significant. If it plugged up something in the carbs when it was in place like the needle, then I'd say it was significant. However, I can be wrong and most likely am.

I have checked the tank and there is no debris that I can see. It looks nice and clean in there. I've also looked at the filter and there appears to be nothing in it as well. I will pull it tomorrow and see if any debris comes out when it's removed.

am I correct that the PAJ1, PAJ2, and Main Jet Air Bleed were replaced with the stage 7? How hard is it to remove them for cleaning?
Click to expand...

To be sure empty your float bowl(s) into a clean clear glass container and let sit for 1/2 a day or so and then have a look up to the light/sun or with a flashlight for debris..............
 
dannymax said:
Heard YamaBond or Honda Bond will work for tiny diaphragm holes, but have never tried it.

It looks like two of your plugs sat under water, make sure all your drain holes are open.
Click to expand...

There are drains? Gonna have to look for that.

I did drain the floats and there is no debris in the jar.

I've repaired the hole with black permatex silicone and will be re-inserting the slide later today after I once again shotgun it.
 
I wouldn't settle for anything less than a new diaphram myself - but that's just me.

If a person gets too carried away with shooting pressurized carb cleaner down all the orifices in those carbs during a shotgun proceedure, you can accidently cause significant damage to the coasting enrichener diaphrams. (don't ask me how I know :whistlin:) That would cause it to be VERY DIFFICULT to restart the bike. Those diaphrams are running over $45.00 per carb the last time I checked. The only way to tell would be to yank the carb rack off the bike and go through them properly.
 
jfeagins said:
I wouldn't settle for anything less than a new diaphram myself - but that's just me.

If a person gets too carried away with shooting pressurized carb cleaner down all the orifices in those carbs during a shotgun proceedure, you can accidently cause significant damage to the coasting enrichener diaphrams. (don't ask me how I know :whistlin:) That would cause it to be VERY DIFFICULT to restart the bike. Those diaphrams are running over $45.00 per carb the last time I checked. The only way to tell would be to yank the carb rack off the bike and go through them properly.
Click to expand...

yea id give the carbs a proper tear down and cleaning. do it right .....then you wont be stuck in an endless jack around .
 
I don't plan on keeping this Carb for very long. Am currenly looking for a stock carb to swap it with as I don't want the Stage7. Kyle and I are in talks about doing a swap for parts to get this back to stock.

I did finish the shotgun, and it did start up. Actually runs smoother than it has before, but still stutters when I initially take off. I'm gonna leave it be for the time being until I can figure out what the future is for this carb..

Thanks for all your help thus far guys. A lot of really great suggestions thus far.
 
Crap, now the bike won't run on standard tank switch. I've got to keep it on reserve in order for it to run. As soon as I turn it back on to normal, the doggone bike starts to stall. Might be the LED I put in the indicator light or somethin.
 
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