Noob overheating/ popping question 2003

[mundmc]

Hey all, Apologies in advance I'm a new rider and know little about engines.

The following has happened twice now, both on hot days, in NYC stop and go slow traffic.

1) I notice the engine feeling extra hot
2) The needle runs up to the red (just inside the red)
3) I soon after notice coolant draining out the overflow hose (lots)
4) the left side of the bike starts making loud, frequent "pop"s

I am aware of the fan being on when i pull the bike over (I can't hear it go on, but I believe it turns on)

Both times, i let the bike cool and put 505/50 coolant in the resorvoir (which was empty).

"Pop"s continue for about 10 miles thereafter, then go away, and it runs fine

I'm taking it to a local guy soon, but I'd like to have some clue on my own of what is happening. From reading the forum, problems I've seen include:
Radiator cap?
Head gasket?
Fan turning on too late?
Clogged carburetor on the popping side causing the popping and heat (though the popping tends to start after it overheats, and continues when it is cool for a time)?
Dirty coolant?
Failed coolant pump?
Failed thermisters?

The bike is a 2003 I bought in February 2015, 9000 miles on it, and I've only put about 100 miles or so on it since purchase, predominatly city riding.

Do any of these seem more likely than others? Help is incredibly appreciated, as a modicum of engine knowledge hopefully will keep me from getting hosed by a mechanic.

Mun

 

[Traumahawk]

I wonder if the radiator is a bit clogged? You can run a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water. ..run it at idle until it gets up to the fan comes on... (is the fan coming on when it gets hot?) And drain it. In the summer time fill it with 25 antifreeze.....and 75 water. Water gets rid of heat faster than antifreeze.

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[jfeagins]

I'd start by checking your charging system. When the fan kicks on, the extra draw on what's probably a sick charging system can cause the CDI box to starve for proper voltage, resulting in misfires which can have an adverse affect on cooling.

The OEM thermostat & auto fan switch don't usually kick in until the bike is almost indicating red. There's info here regarding a different fan switch to make it kick on sooner. Also, you might need to check your coolant thermostat (down low, behind the front down pipes.) The have been known to stick shut - same as on cars/trucks.

 

[dannymax]

I wonder if the radiator is full to begin with? Did you take the right side scoop off and remove the radiator cap? WAIT TILL IT'S COOLED DOWN THO before removing the cap!


9K miles seems awfully low for any serious problems....altho stranger things have happened.

 

[blaxmax]

I bought mine with 10k on it last oct and when i rode it 100 miles home i had to stop twice as it was almost in the red and smelled hot. Palm springs 101 degrees that day.
I mounted a manual fan switch the next day and changed to 75% distilled water and 25% coolant. It ran just above 1/2 on the temp.
Last month i bought an all aluminum tig welded radiator and now it runs below 1/2 on the gauge. 116 degrees today in palm springs right now.

 

[Fire-medic]

Feel the rows of the radiator and see if they all are about the same temp, or you can use some sort of thermometer, maybe a Harbor Freight infrared to see if you have a clogged row or more.

I vote w/a coolant service, read RaWarrior's sticky about maintenance and common VMax issues. http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=21240&highlight=switch

You can replace the radiator cap and the thermostat w/much less expensive NAPA parts, same for the fan switch thermocouple. Rinsing the system w/vinegar/water and then doing a distilled H2O/antifreeze mix should put you on the right side of things. Probably < $50 in parts and chemicals to make things work as they should, I bet you have the original anti freeze in it.

More overheating posts:
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19022&highlight=switch

Go to your local parts store (O'riley's, NAPA...) and pick yourself up a STANT cap, model #11233. It will work for you and you can pick them up from about $6-9. (from post #33 above, thanks KJ)

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=13832&highlight=switch

Tips on a variety of issues.

From std354: I put in the Auto Zone crossover for this switch, 88 Nissan Sentra-MT0540. Haven't gone over halfway on the gauge yet, including idling in traffic.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=9265&highlight=switch

From richwrench:
I run a Borg-Warner fan switch - p/n TFS545
A Stant thermostat p/n 13758 180 degree
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=9265&highlight=switch&page=3

 

[eggohead]

I would also put a better fan switch or sensor in. They seem like they want to run hot to start with. Mine did the same stuff when I first bought it, I replaced it and haven't ever had a issue with it again. I bought the switch off Vmaxoutlaw.com

 

[mundmc]

Traumahawk, jfeagins dannymax, blaxmax, Fire-medic, eggohead,

You guys are pretty amazing, I've been on a lot of niche forums in my life, and your fast advice is remarkable and very appreciated.

So here's my plan, based on the above:
1) Take off side scoop(s), take off radiator cap, make sure it is full (problem = not enough coolant)
2) Feel radiator for air/ cooler spots to make sure it has coolant circulating (problem = obstructed radiator)
3) Make sure the drain screw is NOT in the "drain" position (problem = not circulating all coolant to radiator)
4) Drain coolant (problem = dirty coolant)
5) Fill with 50-50 vinegar-water, running until hot, then draining (problem = scale buil-up)
6) Fill with 70-30 water-ethylene glycol
7) Make sure fan is turning on at correct temperature
8) Replace radiator cap (problem = something about not keeping system pressurized and thereby boiling too easily)
9) Replace thermostat (I need to read the details on whether this is the fan control thermostat or the warm-up-water-diversion thermostat)
10) Add manual fan switch (to turn on in stop and go traffic)

I'm off to reading about what tools I need, and I have my copy of the Clymer ready to go.

 

[Traumahawk]

Good. let us know how it turns out.....or if there are anymore issues.

 

[V-Four]

Traumahawk, jfeagins dannymax, blaxmax, Fire-medic, eggohead,

You guys are pretty amazing, I've been on a lot of niche forums in my life, and your fast advice is remarkable and very appreciated.

I just wanted to say welcome...and you are absolutely correct about this site. Awesome people here.

 

[mundmc]

I'd start by checking your charging system. When the fan kicks on, the extra draw on what's probably a sick charging system can cause the CDI box to starve for proper voltage, resulting in misfires which can have an adverse affect on cooling.

The OEM thermostat & auto fan switch don't usually kick in until the bike is almost indicating red. There's info here regarding a different fan switch to make it kick on sooner. Also, you might need to check your coolant thermostat (down low, behind the front down pipes.) The have been known to stick shut - same as on cars/trucks.

Potential winner! So I decided to ride my vmax out to the dealer, just to be on the safe (albeit likely expensive side). It's about a 45 minute drive through Brooklyn, lots of lights. I stopped a few times for it to cool off. The third time I stopped, the engine wouldn't start back up. I rolled it a few blocks, some friendly neighborhood bikers tried to help me jump it to no avail. This was in the Brownsville neighborhood in 95 degree weather. It was just lovely.

Now, the shop says there is a new battery in, but something is possibly wrong with the charging system, as the new battery won't, er, charge, i suppose.

Thanks again!

 

[Fire-medic]

You can check your alternator output yourself w/an inexpensive multi meter, ~40 V AC out of the alternator on all three legs, and close to 14.5V DC (+ or - 0.5 V) into the battery from the regulator/rectifier at ~2000 RPM (from the factory manual). If it's turning 16-17 V then your R/R isn't limiting output as it should and your new battery won't last long. The electrolyte juice will boil out.

If any one alternator leg is substantially below 40 V then you have a bad stator or wire lead.

Factory spec for the stator resistance is 0.42 ohms between any two leads +/- 15%, bike non running for this.

Look at the stickies I posted and get a MOSFET R/R and not a OEM, the MOSFET runs cooler and should last longer. A member was selling a Rick's Electric one (aftermarket replacement) he didn't need recently.

 

[Miles Long]

You can check your alternator output yourself w/an inexpensive multi meter, ~40 V AC out of the alternator on all three legs, and close to 14.5V DC (+ or - 0.5 V) into the battery from the regulator/rectifier at ~2000 RPM (from the factory manual). If it's turning 16-17 V then your R/R isn't limiting output as it should and your new battery won't last long. The electrolyte juice will boil out.

If any one alternator leg is substantially below 40 V then you have a bad stator or wire lead.

Factory spec for the stator resistance is 0.42 ohms between any two leads +/- 15%, bike non running for this.

Look at the stickies I posted and get a MOSFET R/R and not a OEM, the MOSFET runs cooler and should last longer. A member was selling a Rick's Electric one (aftermarket replacement) he didn't need recently.

+1
Also, check the condition of the plastic stator wiring connector (white, 3-wire) itself. A common source of problems with the Max, as well as other bikes. They tend to melt, shortout, or cause resistance, or any combination of the three.
A very common mod is to eliminate the connector completely, by using soldered butt connectors, but this makes future testing of the stator difficult. A better solution is three individual insulated bullet connectors, soldering the wires after connecting to the male/female ends, and then assembling using dielectric grease.
Cheers!

 

[mundmc]

(All comments sincerely appreciated)

So took my Max to the dealer who sold it to me. They replaced the r/r, not sure if OEM or a different one. They said it cooled down on the highway, and hey had no problems with overheating.

Well...

I was riding home, and it was quickly in the read. Fan came on to no avail. Thought maybe more airflow should help. I circum-navigated Queens and a quarter of Brooklyn on the highway; running in the red the entire time.

Three days ago I missed my turn and slowly drive around Chinatown and Wallstreet in 90 degree weather. Bike felt very hot, in the red. I parked it, too the fake tank cover off, and got an awesome video of my reservoir boiling.

I'm curious if the coolant is even circulating through the radiator (though the bypass valve (or whatever on the manifold under the radiator), seems to be correct.

Lastly, I noticed the plug on the ? 1st cylinder (rear on the left), was leaking tiny amounts of coolant, and the area around the plug had scaling suggestive of an ongoing problem. I also hear a lot of "pops" when I accelerate (e.g. at least one per second).

Thoughts?

 

[Traumahawk]

One question that I have....is there 100% antifreeze in the overflow? 100 % antifreeze doesn't get rid of heat that quickly. It should be 75% water and 25% antifreeze.

Can you post pics of the leak?

I will get on the computer and post a pic of the proper way that the bypass knob for the radiator should be facing. It's backwards from what you think.


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[Traumahawk]

Here is a site with a very good pic. If you read the thread...the bypass valve is to drain the radiator. So it should be off.....at the 2 oclock position.

http://vmaxchat.yuku.com/topic/1383/Coolant-Drain-Valve-position#.Vb74EfNViko

 

[mundmc]

Hey Traumahawk,

Looks like the bypass valve is correct (the ON is at 2 o'clock). I tried wiggling it just to see if that made a difference.

I attached a couple pics of the coolant leak (50:50 coolant, though have had to emergently add water enough that it's closer to 75:25 water:coolant now) from the L rear plug. Not sure if this leak might be related.

Holy cow my Max sounds like a gun-fight for a while after it over heats, what with all the pops from the L side.

 

[Traumahawk]

Do you know if it's stock.....or if someone has messed with the jetting? I wonder if you might be running lean.....IE time to do a carb cleaning procedure called a shotgun.
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[jfeagins]

Thermostats are cheeeeeap for this bike. Take your old one in to cross it over to one for a car, rather than pay the stealership for a Yamaha OEM part.. A bit of a pita to get to though. It sounds to me like you might benefit from putting in a new one at this time though IF going faster on the hwy does not cause your bike to start cooling back down on it's own. Don't forget you'll also need a gallon or so of new antifreeze to do the thermostat swap out - I never figured a good way to catch and save the old antifreeze easy enough to be worth saving it. I mix mine 50/50 with water.

 

[mundmc]

Follow-up: First trip back to the dealership informed me they fixed it. This was not the case, and the coolant continued to boil.

At this point, I should mention I was driving from Midtown Manhattan, through Chinatown, in 90 degree heat. That said, by the time the fan came on, it was about 10 minutes until the coolant began spitting out the overflow hose.

Second trip back to the dealership and $450 later, they said it was probably the radiator cap, though they made some other clandestine changes (probably to the a/f screws, though they were vague), and it seemed to be a problem no longer.

Then again, the difference between August and late September temperatures in NYC are notable.

So if anybody is like me, and is unfortunate enough to know so little about their new Vmax while having this problem, a $10 part worked for me. Thanks all on the forum, I've learned a lot since the bike was returned, now learning to do my own fixes. Thanks again to the forum.