Penetrating Oils

[alorio1]

Here is an interesting article about Penetrating oils.

Penetrating Oils

Recently "Machinist Workshop Magazine" did a test on penetrating oils.
Using nuts and bolts that they 'scientifically rusted' to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety of penetrates and measured the torque required to loosen them.

This is what they came up with:

Nothing: 516 lbs

WD-40: 238 lbs;

PB Blaster: 214 lbs;

Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,

Kano Kroil: 106 lbs

(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.



This last "shop brew" of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat

out the commercially prepared products costing far more.

 

[bikedave99]

Here is an interesting article about Penetrating oils.

Penetrating Oils

Recently "Machinist Workshop Magazine" did a test on penetrating oils.
Using nuts and bolts that they 'scientifically rusted' to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety of penetrates and measured the torque required to loosen them.

This is what they came up with:

Nothing: 516 lbs

WD-40: 238 lbs;

PB Blaster: 214 lbs;

Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,

Kano Kroil: 106 lbs

(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.



This last "shop brew" of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat

out the commercially prepared products costing far more.

Thats insane... I've heard of that last one but never seen a study... how long were the rusted bits soaked? 10 fold decrease in torque required is nuts... How big was the control group of untreated nuts and bolts?

 

[tugla]

ive used atf lots to help free up bolts, preserve motors,lube cylinders etc....not sure the second to last is the same as aerokroil but that stuff along with mouse milk is wicked....

atf/diesel mix is also great for cleaning up old engines with lots of carbon, cuts right through it.

question is which atf fluid did they use hahha

 

[sdt354]

Tks Joe, that is great and usefull info. I have tried the acetone/ATF mix and it worked great. wd-40 is what's always near by though. I'm glad it reduces the torque by almost half. Salt water is better than any locktight. Old timers in N.E. used to dip prop shaft couplings in saltwater before install. I will not.
Steve-o

 

[tugla]

you add heat to these and also makes a big difference, helps the penetrant creep up inside, more effective......

hard to find now but kreasote(spelling?) used to treat railway ties back in the day , the black stuff is awesome!!!!! no heat required.....

 

[kevman]

I had heard that ATF was good because if you were heating a rusted nut or bolt with a oxy torch it didn't evaporate unlike wd40 or crc.Kevman.

 

[alorio1]

Thats insane... I've heard of that last one but never seen a study... how long were the rusted bits soaked? 10 fold decrease in torque required is nuts... How big was the control group of untreated nuts and bolts?

I don't have all the answerers to the questions Dave that you requested. but the bolts must have been fairly large to withstand 516 lbs of torque.
"Using nuts and bolts that they 'scientifically rusted' to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts." I got this from one of my good friends that works in a machine shop and the shop subscribes to the magazine. I really don't see where the size of the group is relevant, but the test were conducted and this was the results. It would be interesting for you to conduct your own test and post your findings before you suggest my post is insane.

 

[bikedave99]

I don't have all the answerers to the questions Dave that you requested. but the bolts must have been fairly large to withstand 516 lbs of torque.
"Using nuts and bolts that they 'scientifically rusted' to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts." I got this from one of my good friends that works in a machine shop and the shop subscribes to the magazine. I really don't see where the size of the group is relevant, but the test were conducted and this was the results. It would be interesting for you to conduct your own test and post your findings before you suggest my post is insane.

Whoops... bad choice of words on my part! I meant that the study produced crazy good results that I did not expect at all, my bad! My comment on the control group size was just curiosity about if the 516ft/lbs was repeatable using the same scientific rusting method. I fully intend to mix up a spray bottle of acetone/ATF.... a little cheaper than PB Blaster!

 

[Miles Long]

Thanks, Joe! Great info
I'm going to mix up some of that "shop brew" asap.
One thing - did the article mention how long the rusted parts were allowed to soak in the various penetrants?

I recently had to remove a retaining ring from a fuel pump assembly. Held in place by eight very rusted, very soft, Phillips-head screws. Naturally, the screw heads rounded out almost immediately. Only one screw loosened, after grabbing them all with vise grips. This all happened after using a variety of penetrants (WD40, LPS-2, Tri-flow, etc.)
Then I remembered all the kudos for PB Blaster that have been given on this forum. So I bought some, and put the screws on the "soak cycle" for about 24 hrs. All the remaining screws came out with the help of the Vise-Grips, no problem.
Made me wonder if the other penetrants would have worked as well, if they had been allowed to sink in for as long.
Cheers!

 

[dannymax]

That's great info Joe....thanks for posting.

There was some stuff in the Navy that was incredibly effective....came in an od green (of course) gallon can labeled 'Penetrating Oil'....nothing more. Pre MSDS and ingredient listing.

I wonder if that was an acetone/atf mix prepared exclusively for the military? Always wished I'd 'liberated' a gallon of that stuff....unk:

 

[tugla]

no way to find it in surplus i guess eh dan lol

 

[dannymax]

no way to find it in surplus i guess eh dan lol

That never occurred to me Rov but probly guys a little smarter than me stole it all before it got to surplus anyhow!! :biglaugh:

I thought you'd be on the move today? :ummm:

 

[bikedave99]

That never occurred to me Rov but probly guys a little smarter than me stole it all before it got to surplus anyhow!! :biglaugh:

I thought you'd be on the move today? :ummm:

Well, if it worked well then the EPA probably snatched it up

 

[dannymax]

Well, if it worked well then the EPA probably snatched it up

I wouldn't doubt that a bit....more than likely full of all sorts of carcenogenic substances!

 

[tugla]

That never occurred to me Rov but probly guys a little smarter than me stole it all before it got to surplus anyhow!! :biglaugh:

I thought you'd be on the move today? :ummm:

yup always, makes for harder target to hit bahahah

flt cancelled yesterday on way to mass so now got tkt out of here and flights at 11pm, so off for a nap, catch ya on the flip side :biglaugh:

 

[RaWarrior]

I wouldn't doubt that a bit....more than likely full of all sorts of carcenogenic substances!

It's a wonder how anybody survived the 60s...I mean like everything then gave you cancer.

Time to whip up some acetone/atf blend....I'd always used PB Blaster in the past since I thought it worked a little quicker than WD40, though it seems the shop blend is the clear winner for freeing rust.


Currently my favorite general purpose lube, swiping the spot from WD40 is a product called DuPont Multi Purpose Teflon Lube, off a suggestion from someone I ride with. It's the world's best chain lube....sprays as a liquid, dries to a slightly waxy clear Teflon coating. Doesn't fling off, doesn't make a mess of the rear wheels, lasts a long time.

It works great for just about everything else too. Takes the place of WD40, white lithium spray grease, and other dry lube sprays. Non conductive and non flammable. Sprayed on garage door tracks they move virtually silently and smooth as can be. Quiets squeaky car door hinges, sticky tailgate latches, have yet to find something it doesn't work great for.

 

[Fire-medic]

I like the PB Blaster because it has a cool can, all that writing! And, it works. I use atf to soak stuff in for awhile before I try to wrestle w/it. It's good for pickling something for years of storage too.

 

[RaWarrior]

I've run ATF as engine oil, at least in my 10hp Briggs powered minibike. It leaks, I had used up all the el cheapo oil I'd been adding to it, I happened to have a quart of ATF handy. It's new enough to have the automatic shutdown if the oil is too low, and it wouldn't start without adding something.

Poured it in, then drove it for a good 90 min with no issues. Now it "bleeds" instead of leaks.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I like the PB Blaster because it has a cool can, all that writing!

Now THAT I can relate to! :eusa_dance:

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Just be careful with the acetone mix. Acetone is very flammable stuff, and the vapors are pretty powerful too! I usually soak things with PB blaster or liquid wrench, let it sit for a while, then warm it up with a small propane torch. Get's em loose everytime! I always reassemble with a dab of anti-seize to prevent things from locking up in the future.