Q Changing the oil suction tube: how many have you done it?

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sider

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Personally I did it a few years ago, .although apparently I had no problems, and all the owners of vmax, .told me that it was.normal.that the oil warning light came on, When it accelerated a lot. Well, when I opened the oil pan, I found the dip tube in its normal position, But the silicone o-ring, slipped off one side due to pressure. Given the situation, I decided to modify the tube, add a stainless steel support bracket; and replace the silicone ooring (too soft) with a green one. The result was that when I turned the motorcycle back on, I had to change all the oil seals of the engine valve mushrooms, Because they had probably worked for years without oil and worn out (same problem on camshafts, engine valves and camshaft supports), And when the oil started to get to the right pressure, the engine valve seals no longer held up. Needless to say, from that moment on,It no longer ignited even after sudden accelerations. For this reason I am curious to know how many of you have already made the change and how many spend hundreds of dollars In maintenance and accessories, and in order not to replace a stupid o-ring, they are destroying the engine
 

one2dmax

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We sell a heavy duty oiling kit to address the flimsy oring as well as different gearing to overdrive the oil pump for more volume and pressure. The Vmax community has known about the oring problem for a number of decades now. Some address it differently then others.
 

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sider

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We sell a heavy duty oiling kit to address the flimsy oring as well as different gearing to overdrive the oil pump for more volume and pressure. The Vmax community has known about the oring problem for a number of decades now. Some address it differently then others.

Yes, the problem has been known for decades, but at least in my part, there are those who continue to talk about luck or bad luck in having the problem on their bike, and those who continue to say that it is normal Let the oil light come on when you accelerate hard. The truth is that the problem is there on all vmax, and if it is not solved, sooner or later there comes a bill to pay, and it is very high
 

MaxMidnight

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The oil light coming on and displaced O ring are two different issues.

The oil light is an oil level indicator and during hard acceleration the oil moves to the rear of the sump and causes the oil level light to come on.

The displaced O ring has nothing to do with the above.
Can anyone give evidence of engines that have failed directly due to the O ring?

I have asked this question many tiomes before and I'm still waiting for a response.
 

sider

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La spia dell'olio che si accende e l'O-ring spostato sono due problemi diversi.

La spia dell'olio è un indicatore del livello dell'olio e durante una forte accelerazione l'olio si sposta nella parte posteriore della coppa e fa accendere la spia del livello dell'olio.

L'O-ring spostato non ha nulla a che fare con quanto sopra.
Qualcuno può fornire prove di motori che hanno fallito direttamente a causa dell'O-ring?

Ho fatto questa domanda molte volte prima e sto ancora aspettando una risposta.
[/CITAZIONE]

I think the oil warning light does not detect the oil level but the oil pressure, at least from what I know, and if you calculate that before changing the oil draft, the soy would light up at every acceleration, while from then on it didn't light up anymore, I would say that the oil that moves has nothing to do with it. for the rest I can tell you that my engine it has obvious signs of wear caused by the lack of oil in the heads. low pressure of the oil in the cylinder heads does not generate a sudden break but a slow wear of the moving parts, and thus an engine which by conformation, and very low rotation speed, it could be eternal, slowly dies. the worst problem with cylinder heads is that they don't have filler bushings in the aluminum, so once the aluminum digs. the warheads are to be thrown away,so in my opinion it's crazy to ruin an engine for an o-ring. if you need other tests, I repeat that the engine ran without oil leaks before the modification to the oil pump, but when I turned it back on, I had to change all the oil seals valve stems, because oil literally dripped from them. this means that until before the modification, very little oil reached the cylinder heads
 
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one2dmax

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The oil light coming on and displaced O ring are two different issues.

The oil light is an oil level indicator and during hard acceleration the oil moves to the rear of the sump and causes the oil level light to come on.

The displaced O ring has nothing to do with the above.
Can anyone give evidence of engines that have failed directly due to the O ring?

I have asked this question many tiomes before and I'm still waiting for a response.
I can tell you that nearly every engine we have taken apart for transmission failures as well as spin bearing failures had the oring displaced. I don't know that I can remember taking apart ANY spun bearing motors that the oring was in place. And I have taken apart a number of them. I have however taken apart engines for trans repairs that the oring was in place but I would put the ratio at 1 or 2 in ten that had the oring in place vs those with them blown out. Is that good enough to satisfy your question?
 

Julian Tomkins

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could the other items in the engine that failed be the cause of blowing out the o-ring rather than the other way round ?

I got paranoid about this o-ring thing a while ago so I bought the better kawasaki o-ring to replace it, when I removed my sump and oil pump I could not get the 'banjo' bolt to undo (bad wrist and lack of space), my orange o-ring was still in place so I tried to pull the oil pipe down with the other bolts removed to see how bad the fitting was but it didn't budge even with quite a bit of force, so I left it and put everything back together,
the only other thing I did was fit a new bung that the oil pipe 'rests' on as the original one was a bit squashed,
I now use the sight glass method to see that oil is circulating, if the oil vanishes from the window I feel all is ok,
I was told the most probable reason the o-ring fails is a failure to warm the engine properly before giving it a hard time
 

MaxMidnight

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I can tell you that nearly every engine we have taken apart for transmission failures as well as spin bearing failures had the oring displaced. I don't know that I can remember taking apart ANY spun bearing motors that the oring was in place. And I have taken apart a number of them. I have however taken apart engines for trans repairs that the oring was in place but I would put the ratio at 1 or 2 in ten that had the oring in place vs those with them blown out. Is that good enough to satisfy your question?
Not really. You refer to transmission failure but I would have thought that if a displaced O ring causing low oil pressure it would have been the big ends or mains that had suffered? Why do you think it affected transmissions?

My problem is that correlation does not imply causation.
I would have thought that given the number of bikes out there that have had displaced O rings there would have been an epidemic of failure and as far as I'm aware (at least in the UK) that is not the case.
 

sider

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Posso dirvi che quasi tutti i motori che abbiamo smontato per guasti alla trasmissione e ai cuscinetti di rotolamento avevano l'oring spostato. Non so se riesco a ricordare di aver smontato QUALSIASI motore con cuscinetto rotante in cui l'oring era a posto. E ne ho smontati diversi. Tuttavia, ho smontato i motori per le riparazioni trans che l'oring era a posto, ma metterei il rapporto a 1 o 2 su dieci che avevano l'oring a posto rispetto a quelli con quelli spenti. È abbastanza buono per soddisfare la tua domanda?
[/CITAZIONE]
The problem is that for a stupid o-ring, the engine is slowly ruined. Different speech when the oil draft yields, and you find yourself in an instant with the engine running dry. in that case you destroy it in an instant
 

sider

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Not really. You refer to transmission failure but I would have thought that if a displaced O ring causing low oil pressure it would have been the big ends or mains that had suffered? Why do you think it affected transmissions?

My problem is that correlation does not imply causation.
I would have thought that given the number of bikes out there that have had displaced O rings there would have been an epidemic of failure and as far as I'm aware (at least in the UK) that is not the case.


As I told you, from my point of view it is a problem that presents the bill very slowly, but first or later it presents it. I'll give you an example: the first series of the vfr750 Honda 1986 had holes that They carried oil to the camshafts, which were too small. Honda realized this because I detect an anomalous consumption of material, and sent out a bulletin to the dealers to widen those holes. They have sold thousands of VFRs and many have never received the modified Honda request, yet they still walk. This however does not mean that a VFR 86 engine without modification, Both in the same conditions of use of a VFR 750 '86, with the modification carried out Both bikes still walk, but when you open the throttle, you know immediately which one hasn't had the change
 

maleko89

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I checked my notes and Yamaha did change the oil pickup assembly starting in '99.

"The new tube seats the o-ring ( now a smaller o.d. ) deeper into the port in the case eliminating the failure prone original design that was barely below the taper in the bore. At least that's the idea anyway."

Mark
 

MaxMidnight

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As I told you, from my point of view it is a problem that presents the bill very slowly, but first or later it presents it. I'll give you an example: the first series of the vfr750 Honda 1986 had holes that They carried oil to the camshafts, which were too small. Honda realized this because I detect an anomalous consumption of material, and sent out a bulletin to the dealers to widen those holes. They have sold thousands of VFRs and many have never received the modified Honda request, yet they still walk. This however does not mean that a VFR 86 engine without modification, Both in the same conditions of use of a VFR 750 '86, with the modification carried out Both bikes still walk, but when you open the throttle, you know immediately which one hasn't had the change

As you say, Honda realised there was an issue and took action. This would have been established from feedback from customers, the bike press and possibly via warranty repairs and subsequent examination of the displaced materials.
As the reputation of Honda was suffering due to the camshaft issues they took action to rectify the situation.

To the best of my knowledge there is or was no similar situation with Yamaha or the VMax. I am sure that they value the reputation of their products just as much as Honda so would want to take action to protect it if an issue with any of their products manifested itself.
As it took some fifteen years to modify the pick-up I find it hard to believe that they would allow a problem to continue for such a long time.
Whilst we are taking about the Max the same arrangement was also used on the Venture bikes as well.
I have been a member of this Forum since 2007 and a UK Forum since 2003. I'm sure if there was a significant issue with lubrication then I would have read of many cases of blown or damaged motors.
I haven't.

As I said in my previous post correlation does not imply causation.
If an engine lets go and it is seen that the O ring is out there there will be those who assume that was the problem. That there may have been insufficient oil/ hadn't been changed/ cooing issue/ thrashed mercilessly, which may well have been the prime cause, is not investigated.

I can only base my opinions on what I see on forums like this.
I remain sceptical regarding the significance of a popped O ring and until I read of engines failing on a regular basis due to lubrication issues I see no reason to change my mind.
 

Stephan

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I agree with you Max. I stripped my 35000 mile engine down to the last nut and bolt after I bought the bike in 2016 and one of the first things that I saw was the displaced O ring. All engine parts were within Yamaha specification and there was no visible nor measurable damage. From memory the pipe in question takes oil to the cylinder head and therefore wear would occur there first, but there was none. I did the fix anyway for good measure, but I suspect that it is not totally necessary.
 

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