Radial brake conversion on my VenMax

[dingy]

Here is an update on mounting Radial brakes on scooter.

Brakes came of a 2010 R1 that had 45 miles on it. Owner did an upgrade to stock brakes. I got them for $155 with shipping on Ebay and they were like new.

I have had a rapid prototype made of a bracket that I designed in Solid Edge CAD. It was made using a Dimension 3D printer which is a fused deposit process. The local high school has a machine and they made the prototype out of an ABS like material for $65 from my CAD model.

It is very close for a first try at it. I was hoping to only need one bracket that would fit both the left & right sides, but that plan isn't going to work. Bracket is symmetrical from the center line allowing it to work on either side. The rotor retaining screws are just touching bracket though. I will have to make a left and right final bracket with a relief cut to clear the rotor screws. Functional parts will be made from 6061-T6 aluminum.

I have ran FEA analysis on model and it has a 4x safety rating over anticipated rotational torque forces.

It is a close fit centering caliper over rotor. This came off a bike with 5mm rotors and the 1st gen Venture MKII's are 7mm wide. This is leaving about .020" clearance on either side of the caliper body.

I plan on refining this model a little more and getting another prototype made before moving to a machined aluminum set.

Third from last picture shows rotor to caliper clearance and second from last picture is what caliper looked like on original mount. Last ones are CAD models & VMax front rim.

I have a VMax front rim going on this winter & am goung to repowder coat lower fork tubes black.

The Mod Monkey is not exclusive to VMax's.

Gary

 

[[email protected]]

Very nice work Gary.
Surprised you didn't set it up with late Vmax or R1 front rotors that have a larger diameter and are 5mm thick.

 

[dingy]

The way the bracket is designed it will accommodate the larger diameter rotor with a bushing placed between the bracket & the caliper housing.

The difference in rotor thickness would be about .078", which I don't see a major problem with the caliper body offset from the rotor center line by half that. If it is an issue I can shim bracket inwards with a spacer between fork tube and bracket. Last picture shows use of spacer (shown in red). The spacer and caliper each have a shoulder protrusion to keep assembly locked together.

This was just intended to be a first pass at fitment. Final version with the VMax front rim will be wider due to VMax rim is about 1/4" narrower overall than the Venture rim.

I am considering getting a set of wave rotors for it at some point.

This is more about the bling factor. I also have a set of 6 caliper brakes from a 1997 YZF 750. These are a direct bolt on that wouldn't require the bracket, but are still the two piece design.

Gary

 

[maxcruiser]

Very impressive work right there. The finish product is sure to be a great mod.

Mike

 

[CaptainKyle]

Nice work !

 

[one2dmax]

Looks good. BUT, as you already noted the 6 piston YZF set would work quite well and probably not even be measurable on the difference between the two. I have seen an almost identical adapter design for the vmax to convert to the radial brakes too.

Sean

 

[dingy]

Looks good. BUT, as you already noted the 6 piston YZF set would work quite well and probably not even be measurable on the difference between the two. I have seen an almost identical adapter design for the vmax to convert to the radial brakes too.

Sean

I have a picture of an adapter with a set of 4 caliper radials on it.

Its not really about the stopping power, it's more about never been done before on a Venture. I have a set of R1's on the bike now that are probably more than adequate.

Sort of like the VMax rear wheel & under slung caliper, I doubt there is another Venture with that.

It's just that Mod Monkey thing, it's spreading.

Gary

 

[Redbone]

I have a picture of an adapter with a set of 4 caliper radials on it.

Its not really about the stopping power, it's more about never been done before on a Venture. I have a set of R1's on the bike now that are probably more than adequate.

Sort of like the VMax rear wheel & under slung caliper, I doubt there is another Venture with that.

It's just that Mod Monkey thing, it's spreading.

Gary

Indeed! DAMN!
Nice work Gary!

 

[satariel666]

I will ask you one thing before I place my comment becouse I dont want any war
with americans anymore. I found that americans dont like HONEST people from EU.
No offense to anyone of course.

Do you want my opinion here Gary?

 

[dingy]

I will ask you one thing before I place my comment becouse I dont want any war
with americans anymore. I found that americans dont like HONEST people from EU.
No offense to anyone of course.

Do you want my opinion here Gary?

Absolutely say what you think.


I can always ignore it.


Gary

 

[satariel666]

Ok...firstable this wont do anything good for braking. Im always trying to explain anyone whos hunting for better braking power. 300mm rotors and perpendicual yamaha calipers are all you need. Also theres no sense of using it with traditional master cylinder(at least you do plan to upgrade the MC?)
For Venture of course. You are not going to race track for some laps dont you?

Second its designed badly - you have just created a lever with ~1.5:1 ratio so
at high loads it will be flexing dramaticly. Radial caliper requires diffrent straightening points
as the loads are working in diffrent directions(hard to explain). Static simulation will give you nothing here. Take a close look how diffrent radial caliper is bulid and how the stock R1 caliper bracket is looks like. Basicly you also have the lever ratio directed to "inside the rim".

Next, this caliper was desigend to work with 300mm rotor so the radius dont match the pads aread and to piston force area. I can bet you will be experiencing the uneven brake pads wear.

Done.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

I do agree with Prez but it will all depend on how you will mill the relief on the bracket. Now its weakest point is where the top caliper bolt is. The "V" tip...
When friction is added by using the master there are 2 movements associated. The tendency of the caliper to go along with the rotor (flex the V tip towards decreasing the inner angle) and due that the rotor is running inside the fork the tendency of the caliper to lean inside still as consequence of the the caliper wanting to go along with the rotor. It all has to do with geometry and thats why the calipers are disposed in a radial way now. You need to rib the bracket vertically and laterally to make it less prone to flex...

EDIT 1 - Good point on referring the shouldered bushings (that is important) though if you want to go 310mm (these calipers are for 310 rotors) make the bracket to accommodate those dimensions. Maybe raising the caliper position, and consequently tilting it forward will lessen the stress on the bracket, i. e. the caliper top bolt to be in the middle of the fork stock bolt holes...

 

[dingy]

I am still going to do this conversion. Haven't worked on it much lately as I have been working a lot of overtime. Been trying to get some extra funds to invest in the Ignitech TCI purchase I am doing, I want to get extra units for resale.

I am going to get a set of 300mm rotors for it and make bracket with these included in design without spacers, as was suggested. Also the 300mm are 5 mm wide which will help with clearance on the radial calipers to the rotor. Looking at using a set of RSV 99-10 rotors. Don't really like the wave rotors that much and they are expensive for an experiment.

I am not concerned about the 'lever action' on the bracket. Most of the radially applied force is pushing bracket forward into fork mount leg of bracket. And Finite Element Analysis showed a safety factor of 4 times needed for conditions that were estimated.

I had hoped to do this with the same bracket on both sides, but this isn't possible due to interference with the rotor mount screws.

Gary

 

[one2dmax]

The 2005 FJR Rotors are a bolt on and are 320 mm!

Sean

 

[wildweasel_pt]

The 2005 FJR Rotors are a bolt on and are 320 mm!

Sean

But only the ABS version. You can also go for R7 ones. Its what im getting for my bike

EDIT - Disregard, i didn't see the 2005 before, and they are all 320mm from 2004 onwards and all have ABS from 2006 onwards.

 

[dingy]

I just bought a set of 2003 FJR rotors for $25 including shipping.

Hopefully they will look as good as they do in pictures.

Know they are not the 320mm, but these look very smooth and they are the floating style. For the price I couldn't pass them up.

Gary

 

[one2dmax]

They are 298mm and same as the stock Vmax. Can't remember though if it has the counterbore like the Vmax late model rotors. Should not matter on your install.

 

[dingy]

They are 298mm and same as the stock Vmax. Can't remember though if it has the counterbore like the Vmax late model rotors. Should not matter on your install.

These will be better than what is on Venture now. I have 282mm's at this time. I am putting these on a VMax rim.

I was surprised at final price. Nobody bid on them & I got them for $9.99 + $15 shipping.

I had been looking for a decent set on ebay and everything was in $100 range plus shipping that I found at Pinwall. Plus the all looked worse than these do.

The R1's I have stop it pretty well, the radials are somewhat of an experiment & bling factor.

Gary

 

[gamorg02]

the fjr, r1, fz1 and vmax ones are all similar eh? anyone know what the black is on the center disk? paint? i've painted mine but it might be easier to just get new ones that are black on the middle next time i need rotors.

 

[PDWeyand]

These will be better than what is on Venture now. I have 282mm's at this time. I am putting these on a VMax rim.

I was surprised at final price. Nobody bid on them & I got them for $9.99 + $15 shipping.

I had been looking for a decent set on ebay and everything was in $100 range plus shipping that I found at Pinwall. Plus the all looked worse than these do.

The R1's I have stop it pretty well, the radials are somewhat of an experiment & bling factor.

Gary

If they do not sell the item on ebay the first time around, they buy it now on the 1st posting and on the 2nd posting they use the auction method. They post up their newest auctions at night. So if you search there stuff for sell you will see more at night than you will the next day, I called asking about a part and they told me that. So if you see something from them and it does not sell the first time listed all other listing after that are for bids. Glad you got a deal.