Radial rim advice and Mod discussion!

[DigitalArts]

1) What is a good 18 inch rear rim? I want to run a 180 without notching the swingarm, is that possible with an 18 inch rim?

I was considering the 17 inch Kosmans but I think the 18 not only looks better, but will help with fuel economy and lower RPMs.

The Carrs are amazing looking and quality but for now at least, I'd rather only replace the rear rim and get some radials on there (poor college student)

2) Also, how much does the weight loss on the Carrs effect the handling/speed?

3) Also, do you guys think it's an unwise decision to drop 10-15k on this bike over the course of its life instead of just upgrading to the Gen 2 for a new foundation?

headlight, shifters, rear+front suspension upgrades, fender elim, rotors+brakes, frame brace/motor mounts, motor cowl, radial rims (only rear is needed) and radial tires front+back, functional ram air from UFO (maybe on this one)

And that would be my "phase one"

4) Phase two would be down the road when I need to rebuild the motor/I have graduated college and make lots of money

Rebuild entire motor with gaskets + bore it + cam + better rods and other stuff + anything else it needs (o-rings, pistons, idk), replace the gears with new ones and maybe a higher speed 5th gear), nos can, shift guage, Carr rims/new tires, maybe a chain drive conversion, ohlin's $1500 suspension (would it be worth it over the 440s?), r1 front forks, a new paint job

So obviously Phase 1 isn't going to have a good ROI but it will still only be 4.5k to 5k into a great, performing, customized bike.

Phase 2 gets a bit like "I hate EFI so I'm going to be illogical" even though I like EFI. But it still sounds like a cool idea all the same! I'd basically have a beautiful, one of a kind, performing bike with (I'd imagine) over 200HP easily since it'd be chain drive with a bored motor, different compression pistons etc.

5) Opinions?

 

[scuff]

Well since you asked, Buy one already done, you will always save money buying a bike that has the mods you think you want, be patient one with the mods you want will appear or at least one close to what you want will appear, Think about where you live what's your terrain is it flat ? Lot's of curvy roads? How do you ride? Who do you ride with? Do you want a bike that turns well or goes in a straight line? If your buds have sport bikes or Harley's that's something to consider also, it's not much fun when you can't keep up with your buds or they can't keep up with you, well maybe it's fun when they can't keep up with you LOL but it's more fun when all the guys you ride with are pretty close together. Anyway that's my 2 cents hope it helps and Have a blast ! A V-Max is a blast the torque is awesome and the cool factor is nice too.

 

[Traumahawk]

Here is my same answer from the other post.

I have an 18 RC rim. I have been told that I have the last one made. I run a 180 tire without notching the swing arm, because the wheel is offset about 1/4 of an inch to the right. This wheel is VERY similar to the UFO max daddy. Some people have had issues with UFO.....some people havent. ME PERSONALLY, The people that I know that have had issues with UFO, I wont ever deal with them.....but again....thats just me.

Boxenstop is supposed to do a weldup version of the stock wheel, but I dont know if they are 17 or 18 inch.

Sean has talked about buying blanks.....and making his own wheel, like the RC. With the 18 inch wheel, you have the same rpms as with the stock wheel. With the 17 inch wheel, it does raise the rpms a bit. I think about 500 rpm at 70.

Firemedic has a friend that is doing the 17 inch weldup wheel, and currently has a 17 for sale.

LOL....to me cost isnt an issue....people need to do what they like, if they plan on keeping the bike. Mine was 6200 when I bought it....and Ive put about that much into it for extras.

 

[DigitalArts]

I have already purchased a bike with about 3k in mods (SS brake lines, UFO Vgas, fork brace, full holeshot exhaust) so I can't wait for the perfect one anymore xD

Here is my same answer from the other post.

Boxenstop is supposed to do a weldup version of the stock wheel, but I dont know if they are 17 or 18 inch.

Sean has talked about buying blanks.....and making his own wheel, like the RC. With the 18 inch wheel, you have the same rpms as with the stock wheel. With the 17 inch wheel, it does raise the rpms a bit. I think about 500 rpm at 70.

Firemedic has a friend that is doing the 17 inch weldup wheel, and currently has a 17 for sale.

LOL....to me cost isnt an issue....people need to do what they like, if they plan on keeping the bike. Mine was 6200 when I bought it....and Ive put about that much into it for extras.

Hmm, haven't heard of Boxenstop. I'd be really interested if he can make an 18.

If I could have what I want I'd get the Carr wheels since they're so light

How much are the prices from those three?

Unfortunatly, I am stuck in the 600 tops per wheel category until phase 2 (if it happens)

Also, is 17 that much worse? Seems like there are more people making them, and they probably increase accelleration marginally (I would assume given lower top speed). ++ I don't think a 30 year old bike should be above 140 much anyway!


Thanks for all the help and advice!

 

[scuff]

Sry should have read more completely your post but anyway hopefully the advice about thinking of your riding style and stuff will help point you in a right direction for the mods you want to do and how much money to spend doing them, there is a wealth of knowledge on here and many ppl with more experience than me that will help you.

 

[DigitalArts]

No problem! It was a really good point, my cousin rides an FZ6 and our friend rides an SV650.

So they definitely have me nailed in the handling department. We go a bit fast on windy public roads but we want to get more into track days so we don't get ourselves killed haha

Do you think a vmax with radials/front forks altered/444 shocks/r1 brakes could keep up with them on public roads? How far behind on a track?

^ Assuming equal riding skill


Also, on a side note - anyone know if these boots are worth the money? And if they can be worn a whole day, comfortably?

http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/sidi-adventure-gore-tex-boots#size_chart_tab

 

[Traumahawk]

I would also do frame braces in there as well. I have them on mine.....and made a sizable improvement in the handling.

 

[Traumahawk]

Also.....the Vmax really isnt a top end bike.....theoretically top speed is 145ish. One person here went 153 while being paced with a Vette, but without radials Ive been 135....and my bike didnt feel that stable anymore (but riding position probably had something to do with it, I was sitting up).

So, with the 17 the bike would be quicker stoplight to stoplight, and probably still have a topend of 130-135.

 

[scuff]

I couldn't say how radials would feel don't have them was hoping to do that this winter and upgrade my pipes, but my 2nd gear is going out now so that takes priority, still hoping to do the pipes and remove the stage one jet kit that the PO put in, I can say I have been to 135mph several times and 145 twice, on Dunlop bias plys I have progressive shocks in the back, I messed up and bought the stock height so money waisted there should have read this forum more before I bought those, but anyway that's another story, So top end for my bike is legit 145, does it feel great at speed NO ! but I'm probably more of a risk taker than most, to keep up with your buds in the twisty's I would say you have enough ponies spend your money on suspension mods, IMHO

 

[DigitalArts]

I would also do frame braces in there as well. I have them on mine.....and made a sizable improvement in the handling.

I do plan on doing that as well!

And I might reconsider a 17 then, which would you guys suggest for a budget price?

Also, I have an 03 UFO Vgas system, could these work? I want a filter system without killing the airflow!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLOX-Racing...AIR-INTAKE-Filter-Universal-Kit-/271226043160

 

[Fire-medic]

I have for-sale a 5-1/2" x 17" modded stock wheel, no offset so you would need a washer swap to fit something modestly larger than the stock width (radial tire motorcycle tires' profiles are always less-than bias-ply profiles, i.e., 90% vs. 60% or 55%). It's $650 & a core wheel suitable for re-use, shipping/insurance is paid by the buyer. I can send pics, you can also see it under my screen name in the 'Parts for sale' category.

A much-wider profile would require a widened notch swingarm, I think notching both sides would work best, giving you the most options of tire width.

 

[DigitalArts]

I have for-sale a 5-1/2" x 17" modded stock wheel, no offset so you would need a washer swap to fit something modestly larger than the stock width (radial tire motorcycle tires' profiles are always less-than bias-ply profiles, i.e., 90% vs. 60% or 55%). It's $650 & a core wheel suitable for re-use, shipping/insurance is paid by the buyer. I can send pics, you can also see it under my screen name in the 'Parts for sale' category.

A much-wider profile would require a widened notch swingarm, I think notching both sides would work best, giving you the most options of tire width.

How exactly does the offset thing work? I am a bit confused on the subject, feel free to make fun of me :bang head:

Lol but I'm looking for something that will run a 170-200 rear wheel. Preferable something that doesn't involve notching the swingarm as I don't think I have the tools necessary for all that and if I'm not mistaken, it can't help the swingarm strength too much.

Either way, 650 isn't bad - is that with the radial tire on it by chance?

I looked for the Parts for Sale link but can't seem to find it, could you post it in your reply?

Thanks!

 

[one2dmax]

The Carr's will let a 180 fit with no mods or a 200 with notched swingarm. The larger tire you go the more clearance you need on the driveshaft side so you end up having to get a wheel with built in offset of install a washer between the differential and wheel to shift it over to get some clearance back.

Each Lb (or even Oz) makes big differences in the gyroscopic effects. Imagine taking a bowling ball in your hands and spinning as fast as you can. Then try and move or even stop spinning as fast as you can. Not that easy to do.

Now, do the same thing but holding baseballs. You can alter the trajectory with minimal effort and stop almost immediately. The same thing happens on the bike.

Quicker lane changes, better handling, better stopping, and better acceleration.

Sean

 

[Fire-medic]

Offset is the measurement differential from dead-center, measured side-to-side from the vertical plane of the wheel hub. The modded VMax wheels often have less of a measured distance on the right-side of the wheel (looking from being seated on the bike) from the wheel hub, to the wheel rim, and more distance measured from the left-side wheel hub measured to the left wheel rim. This is called, offset to the right.

Think of it like this:
Place a ruler on the edge of the wheel, standing the ruler straight up and down and crossing as-close as you can get to the axle. The ruler would be at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock. The ruler would be on the left side of the wheel, the final-drive side.

Now do the same thing on the right side of the wheel, the side w/the brake disc.

Measure the distance from the surface of the wheel hub, to the closest edge of the ruler on that same side. That will give you a measurement.

Do the same thing on the opposite side. That will give you another measurement.

The side with the smaller measurement is said to have less-offset compared to the opposite side. In other words, the hub of the wheel is closer to the ruler on the side that has less-offset.

This is a bit simplistic, as the offset is actually measured from what would be the center of the wheel hub, measured side-to-side. The rear hub has space for bearings, the final drive gears, and the rear brake caliper.

Think of a simple disc wheel width of 6" from the outside flange on the left, to the outside flange on the right (no final drive gears, no brake caliper and mount). Now, figure that the wheel hub is 1/2" thick material. That would be 5-1/2" (twenty-two-quarters) of width and 1/2" of material. Now, to have exactly the same measurement on each side of the wheel hub, divide twenty-two-quarters into two equal halves. What is your measure? 22 divided by two=11, so that is 11-quarters (remember you began with 22-quarters). Eleven-quarters is two-and three-quarters inches. Again, that is measured from the surface of the wheel hub on the same side to the outside wheel rim.

Zero offset would be an equal measurement from the hub centerline to the rim outer flange measured from either side of the hub. Again, this is a measurement going from side-to-side, like the axle runs. Less offset is a shorter distance from the hub to the wheel rim. More offset is a larger numerical measurement from the wheel rim on that side to the wheel hub.

The VMax needs a smaller measurement on the right-side of the wheel from the hub to the wheel rim and a larger measurement from the hub to the wheel rim on the left side due to the driveline (the driveshaft) being on the left side. Simply-put, there is less room for the wheel and tire combo on the left side of the swingarm than there is on the right side.

So, the term, offset to the right means the rim-to-hub measurement is greater on the left side than the rim-to-hub measurement is on the right.

Now, a bit of offset is easily tolerated even-though it means that the front and rear wheel/tires do not track in exactly the same path as they rotate going down the road.

In a right-offset wheel:
The path of the rear wheel will be slightly to the right of the front wheel's path, if you inked each wheel/tire with a different color ink, and rotated the wheels at-least one full revolution, to show its footprint/contact patch. Because the rear wheel/tire is wider, it probably will cover the entire width of the 'footprint' path of the front wheel/tire.

In the days of the Championship Indy cars, when men were men, and Offenhauser engines were the engine powering 95% of the starting grid cars, the Champ cars had their entire bodies, including powerplant/drivetrain and driver, offset because the cars only turned left.

Yes, I know, they're turning right, they did run a limited number of road courses where they would turn right, too. The well-funded teams would have a chassis for each, one offset, one not.

One-quarter-inch to three-eights-inch of offset is not going to disturb the handling of your VMax. And, it's needed to accommodate the wide rim that a wide-width radial tire/wheel combo require.

On a VMax, the washer swap is a no-machining way to provide a small amount of offset for the wheel/tire combo.

An old trick for providing a relief for a wider wheel/tire combo would be to cut a piece out of the inside of the swingarm, and then flip-around that piece, and weld it in the same spot. Where you had a tubular convex-profile piece of tubing, now you have a concave relief in the tubing, giving you the additional clearance you need.

In the 1960's and '70's, this was a popular and economical way of customizing your motorcycle gas tank. Cut-out the side of the tank, and then weld it back in after reversing it. Now you have a 'scooped' or 'dished' tank, which costs a bit of capacity, but you changed your tank's appearance without having to spend $$ for a new tank. The dished or scooped cutout would often be painted in a high-contrast color or pattern from the rest of the tank to show-off the different contour.

Here is the info on my modded stock wheel:
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=35710

Sorry, no tire is included.

You can buy a Motorcycle Superstore pair of radials when they do a closeout. I am currently using a pair of Bridgestone Battleax tires and am very happy w/them. Don't go > a 110 width on the stock front wheel. A larger width won't sit-well on the stock VMax rim and your handling will not be as-stable as a 110 will give you.

I would love to have a pair of Sean's Carrozzerias, but my budget won't allow it.

How exactly does the offset thing work? I am a bit confused on the subject, feel free to make fun of me :bang head:

Lol but I'm looking for something that will run a 170-200 rear wheel. Preferable something that doesn't involve notching the swingarm as I don't think I have the tools necessary for all that and if I'm not mistaken, it can't help the swingarm strength too much.

Either way, 650 isn't bad - is that with the radial tire on it by chance?

I looked for the Parts for Sale link but can't seem to find it, could you post it in your reply?

Thanks!

 

[DigitalArts]

Nice write up! I really appreciate the in depth description.

So will I be able to transfer the rotor over from the old wheel? And I suppose there is a write up about how to do the washer swap in the forums here, eh?

Also, will it come with a finish similar to the stock front on my 85? And by chance do you make it in an 18 as well?

Thanks for all the info!

 

[CaptainKyle]

I have a pair of Dymags with tires I will probably be selling in the next few months .

 

[DigitalArts]

Ohh really?! I think those look really awesome! How much are you looking to get? Only selling as a pair?

How much do they weigh compared to stock? If they're like the Carrs I would dish out the money for the front as well.

Feel free to PM if you don't want your business public

 

[Traumahawk]

Vmax outlaw has a good right up about the washer swap.

Here it is.

Fat Is Where Its At !!
Making Room for Wider Tires

By Jerry Ferguson

Have you ever considered installing a fat rear tire but thought the fit might be a bit to tight ? Well here is a tip that will free up a little extra space you may need to accommodate that oversize tire. In a recent V-Boost issue we listed many of the available tires that will fit the Vmax and some that may be a marginal fit. The Metzler ME880 170/80-15 is just such a tire. A call to Metzler confirmed that the stock 3.5 inch wheel width is within specification for this tire application. However, without a little more clearance this tire will rub on the shaft side of the swing arm. There are a few brands of 170 size rear tires that will fit but for those of you who choose the marginal ones or just desire a bit of extra swing arm-to-tire clearance this may be the ticket for you.

This procedure basically moves the washer located on the rear axle between the brake arm and the swing arm to the other side of the wheel between the differential drive unit and the wheel drive hub. This provides extra clearance for the tire on the swing arm side of the tire equal to the width of the washer, about 1/8 inch. A bit of additional clearance may be obtained by making sure the differential unit is mounted to the swing arm as far to the right hand side of the bike as possible.

bullet Place the motorcycle on the center stand, or something appropriate if the stock center stand has been removed (sometimes necessary for fitment of an aftermarket exhaust system).


bullet Remove the license plate to facilitate removal and installation of tire/wheel assembly.


bullet Remove the two bolts holding the rear brake caliper to the brake arm and swing the caliper out of the way. It will rest on the outward side of swing arm/shock or if you remove the right side shock it will simply sit on the floor.


bullet Remove the rear axle cotter pin, (pre-'96), axle nut, and washer on left side of bike. Loosen the axle pinch bolt on the right side of bike. You should now be able to pull the rear axle out from the right side of the bike while lifting the tire/wheel (to get the tire/wheel weight off the axle; it really isn't going anywhere at this point as the drive hub is still firmly seated in the differential unit). The washer mentioned previously on the right side of the wheel should drop to the ground when the axle is removed.


bullet The wheel will be continue to held off the ground as it is still seated in the differential drive unit. Pull the brake arm toward the rear and up past the top of the tire to get it out of the way. You may need to loosen the bolt holding the brake arm to the brake torque rod to swing it out of the way or it may simply be removed if you want some extra elbow room.


bullet You should now be able to pull the tire/wheel assembly to the right and away from the differential assembly while supporting its weight; it should drop to the ground. Roll the tire/wheel assembly out to the rear of the bike. If you have a very large tire already fitted to your wheel, you will probably need to let all the air out of the tire so it will slide between the differential and the right side of the swing arm.


bullet This is the prefect opportunity to clean up the inside of the differential and wheel assemblies, the brake arm, the rear caliper, and the axle. Maybe even your wheel!


bullet Before reassembly (and after cleaning), apply bearing grease to the splines inside the differential drive unit and lightly coat the rear axle, (moly grease is recommended).


bullet With the rear wheel off and out of the way you also have an opportunity to make sure the differential unit is mounted to the swing arm as far to the right as possible to take advantage of any extra clearance this may provide. Loosen the four nuts that hold the differential on to the swing arm. Just a bit loose; allowing the unit to be moved slightly with a few mallet taps. Tap the differential to the right side of the bike with a plastic or rubber mallet, and tighten the four nuts. It may or may not move at all, depending on factory assembly and tolerances.


bullet We are now ready for reassembly. Take the washer that was previously between the brake arm and the swing arm on the right side, (don't confuse it with the thicker washer that came off the left side from underneath the axle nut). Place this washer into the differential unit spline area near the center where the axle hole is. Insert a screw driver or other suitable instrument from the outside of the differential unit and into the axle hole to keep the washer in place until we can slide the axle back in through the wheel, (see photo).


bullet Roll the tire/wheel assembly back in between the swingarms and lift it up and onto the differential unit engaging the splines on the wheel and drive unit to hold it in place. Push the wheel to the left to make sure it if firmly seated in the differential while guiding the screwdriver through the center of the wheel hub. Once the wheel hub is fully seated it will press up against the washer we placed in between the hub and the drive unit and keep it from sliding our of position.


bullet At this point you may want to look into the axle hole from the outside of the drive unit to see if the washer in centered. If not, you should be able to move it slightly to center it before installing the axle, (leave the screwdriver in place until you are ready to push the axle through just in case).


bullet Swing the brake arm down and forward; make sure it is aligned between the wheel and the swingarm.


bullet Slide the axle back through the right swing arm, brake arm, wheel, washer (in between the wheel/differential unit), and differential. If you still had a screwdriver inserted to hold the washer in place, it should have been pushed out at this point and the axle should be protruding from the outside of the differential.


bullet Re-install the left side axle washer and nut and torque to the proper specification; reinstall a new cotter pin if so equipped.


bullet Re-install the brake caliper making sure the brake pads have been spread to facilitate sliding it over the brake rotor. Install the caliper retaining bolts and torque to the proper specification.


bullet Torque the axle pinch bolt on the right swing arm to the proper specification.


bullet Re-install the license plate (we wouldn't want you to get pulled over!).


bullet Be sure to your tire is inflated to the proper pressure and check for tire-to-swing arm clearance on the left side. You should have enough clearance to fit many, (perhaps all), of the 170 series tires available. Remember, the tire will expand when it gets hot under a load.
This procedure has been tested for years under heavy load conditions, (high speed, wheelies, etc), on many different Vmaxes with the long lived Metzler ME88 and the more recent replacement ME880 170 series tires with no apparent adverse affects to the drive engagement splines or any of the drive gear. Some rear ends do have minimal clearance due to manufacturing tolerances and the tire may still be too close after it heats up. This seems to be a rare occurrence but if it is encountered it would be wise to make sure the entire swingarm is not severely out of alignment.

A special thanks to Brad Thomas of Mesa, Arizona for sharing this tip. His many years of experience in the application of this modification on so many different Vmaxes allows it to be recommended without reservation.





Washer in place prior to modification



No washer after relocation







Metzler 880 -170/80 -15

This is where the washer went !

 

[Traumahawk]

And yes.....with another wheel, whether its a weld up, or one made for a Vmax...you will be able to swap the old rotor over.

 

[Fire-medic]

Using a bit of heat on the heads of the brake rotor screws and an impact hammer or driver should make their removal much-easier. Last one I did, for one screw I had to use a cold chisel and a ball pein hammer to get it out. It's not a bad idea to have the spares on-hand if you lose the Allen socket flats (they sometimes deform) getting them out.