Rear brake safety lighting etc

[Ryanneal]

I'm becoming more aware of this issue as I often sit at a stoplight in neutral, hands and feet off brakes = no brake lights = increase risk of getting run over.

So....

I've been looking at the signal dynamics back off brake modules, the ones that have programmed flash/repeat patterns etc. I bought the XP model to install. Then I realized they offered a "Hold" model which monitors electronic speed sensor data, and will activate the brakes when you are slowing or stopped with hands and feet off brakes... Sounded good, but I don't think my max has electronic speed sensor? Has cable, right?


So..... I came up with the idea to do a mod to activate brake lights, whenever the bike is in neutral, and the kickstand is not down. This condition will simulate me being at a stop with no brakes. Note, whenever I'm in gear at a stop, I have a brake on. (I think)

I'm using the kickstand switch in the logic, because I don't want the brakes flashing while I'm warming up in the parking lot on the side stand.

Input?

 

[Redbone]

That sounds like a good device but not for me, I guess I'm just old school.
I keep my bike in gear, just incase you have to get out the way of some idiot not stopping. Keep my eye on the mirror, people turning and leave a couple bike lengths between the car in front of me as well so I have room to maneuver if needed. I keep my foot on the brake and will flash it to someone behind me if they are coming up too fast. You can never be too safe.

 

[Traumahawk]

that sounds like a good device but not for me, i guess i'm just old school.
I keep my bike in gear, just incase you have to get out the way of some idiot not stopping. Keep my eye on the mirror, people turning and leave a couple bike lengths between the car in front of me as well so i have room to maneuver if needed. I keep my foot on the brake and will flash it to someone behind me if they are coming up too fast. You can never be too safe.

+1

 

[Tex85]

I will second Redbone in saying always leave your bike in gear... you never know when you're going to need it. I have 2 friends who have been hit while sitting at a light, the one is now wheelchair bound and the other has chronic back problems. Stay in gear, flash your brake light (I use the CBR brakelight so it strobes 2 or 3 times quickly then goes solid). You can never be too careful on a bike. Too many people are texting while driving and simply not paying attention to the road.

 

[Miles Long]

I've been using the XP module for years, hooked up to my upper brake light only (for redundancy.... in case the module fails, the lower brake light still will function normally) It works great! I also use the emergency flasher option. This is hooked directly to the battery, and has a hidden in-line switch. Also only operates the top light. Good for road-side stops, or in extreme conditions like heavy rain or dense fog.
I always leave my bike in first gear when at stoplights, left foot down, right foot on the brake, ready to go. Gives me a bit of a chance if I see a texter barreling towards me in the rear view, obviously not going to stop.
If I'm being followed by a tailgater, I'll pull over asap, or if approaching a stop , I'll purposely slow down gradually to get their attention. Makes them mad as hell, but at least I'm not butt-ended when I do stop (hasn't happened yet, in any event)
Cheers!

 

[Redbone]

I will second Redbone in saying always leave your bike in gear... you never know when you're going to need it. I have 2 friends who have been hit while sitting at a light, the one is now wheelchair bound and the other has chronic back problems. Stay in gear, flash your brake light (I use the CBR brakelight so it strobes 2 or 3 times quickly then goes solid). You can never be too careful on a bike. Too many people are texting while driving and simply not paying attention to the road.

I have a custom setup comprising of 3 Custom Dynamics knight rider LED tail/ brake lights where the middle one flashes 5 times then goes solid red like the other two. They are bright and have a decent angle of view. I am really impressed with the CBR lights, slick looking mod, like it was a factory setup.

 

[Fire-medic]

You also have to be aware of the road rage idiots who would damage their vehicles just to hurt you, whatever your mode of transportation is that day. It seems like every other time I am out there are aggressive drivers who use their vehicles as weapons. The LEO's in FL seem to have too many other demands on them to pay-attention to these. The most-dangerous ones are those who follow you when you try to get-away from them, changing lanes and even taking a different route from what you intended, trying to lose them. At least on a bike you can have a better chance of going somewhere they can't. In those cases, the flashing lights can help them to keep-track of you, not a good thing! A switch to turn-off your brake light and taillight may help you avoid continuing contact w/knuckleheads like that.

I have been rear-ended in my truck 3 times in 4 years so I have a certain personal interest in avoiding rear collisions.

 

[Redbone]

You also have to be aware of the road rage idiots who would damage their vehicles just to hurt you, whatever your mode of transportation is that day. It seems like every other time I am out there are aggressive drivers who use their vehicles as weapons. The LEO's in FL seem to have too many other demands on them to pay-attention to these. The most-dangerous ones are those who follow you when you try to get-away from them, changing lanes and even taking a different route from what you intended, trying to lose them. At least on a bike you can have a better chance of going somewhere they can't. In those cases, the flashing lights can help them to keep-track of you, not a good thing! A switch to turn-off your brake light and taillight may help you avoid continuing contact w/knuckleheads like that.

I have been rear-ended in my truck 3 times in 4 years so I have a certain personal interest in avoiding rear collisions.

LOL, I'm glad I don't live there! You must have some uptight drivers there! :damn angry:
I've driven many miles commercially and have never been rear ended nor any caused accidents. And yes I have lived in big cities, Atlanta, GA, New Orleans and worked in Flint and Detroit MI. so I've been in heavy traffic with many over caffeinated crazy drivers!
That being said I would rather have a flashing light and have them see me. I have never been chased by some disturbed motorist so I'll take the chance with a more noticeable brake light.

 

[Fire-medic]

LOL, I'm glad I don't live there! You must have some uptight drivers there! :damn angry:
I've driven many miles commercially and have never been rear ended nor any caused accidents. And yes I have lived in big cities, Atlanta, GA, New Orleans and worked in Flint and Detroit MI. so I've been in heavy traffic with many over caffeinated crazy drivers!
That being said I would rather have a flashing light and have them see me. I have never been chased by some disturbed motorist so I'll take the chance with a more noticeable brake light.

I had a new GMC crew-cab pickup I bought under 'Cash for Clunkers' and had made one payment when I was rear-ended by an uninsured Jamaican teenaged female who gave the FL Highway Patrol officer a fake insurance card. I didn't find that out until I tried to call the company, and they told me, "we have no record of this customer, and that isn't even a correct policy number sequence.":damn angry: $3K in damages. The next female driver who rear-ended me told the police dep't. member writing the report, "I was applying my make-up, which is why I rear-ended him," good excuse! $2K+ damages. FL drivers suck. When I had a 1-year old Trans Am, my wife or I were in 5 accidents in 13 months, none of them our fault. I'm not superstitious, but the car went. Thank god none of them resulted in serious injuries.

 

[Ryanneal]

Need Electrical Expert

OK Maxers....

I am going to wire my mod...
which activates brake lights when in neutral, only when kickstand is UP. When kickstand is DOwn and in Neutral, system does nothing.

Here is my planned schematic.
The neutral switch is a simple ground or not to activate the RELAY1 sending power to the brake lights.
THen, simple logic, I'm using the kickstand to control a RELAY2 which will or wont send power to RELAY1.

What Im not sure about, is the kickstand switch. In the manual, I thought it too was a simple ground, but instead it appears that it is a continuity loop carrying 1 volt when the kickstand is UP (Enghine RUN switch set to ON). When the kickstand is DOWN, it breaks the continuity and interrupts the 1 Volt signal.

QUESTION... if I use that 1 Volt signal from the kickstand loop to activate a relay, will it diminish the voltage to a point where the balance of the system thinks the kickstand is DOWN? In other words, is it OK to run a relay using the kickstand loop? or will bleeding off of that voltage cause other problems????

Yes, I'm weird, but this will be cool !!!!!!!!!

I have attached both schematics.



(HERE IS THE CORRECTED SCHEMATIC)



Thanks

 

[Miles Long]

Re: Need Electrical Expert

Yes, I'm weird, but this will be cool !!!!!!!!!

Not cool at all.
Keep things as simple as possible. Leave your bike in gear when stopped /at stoplights. Flash your brakelights, or install a flashing module.
Ride safe.

 

[Ryanneal]

Re: Need Electrical Expert

Yes, I'm weird, but this will be cool !!!!!!!!!

Not cool at all.
Keep things as simple as possible. Leave your bike in gear when stopped /at stoplights. Flash your brakelights, or install a flashing module.
Ride safe.

Hi miles,.
I am including the Signal Dynamics XP Back Off module. I just intend to wire it to automatically go on with neutral, in addition to brake levers, because I do use neutral at stops. I note the advice, but it is a rest/comfort decision for me/back fatigue etc.

Please advise if you know who might be the electrical expert of the group capable of helping me with the question, thanks.

 

[Miles Long]

Re: Need Electrical Expert

Hi miles,.
I am including the Signal Dynamics XP Back Off module. I just intend to wire it to automatically go on with neutral, in addition to brake levers, because I do use neutral at stops. I note the advice, but it is a rest/comfort decision for me/back fatigue etc.

Please advise if you know who might be the electrical expert of the group capable of helping me with the question, thanks.[/QUOTE

Rusty Mc Neil is our resident electrical guru, in my opinion. I'm sure he would advise you, regarding your proposed modificaion.
Cheers!

 

[Ryanneal]

Re: Need Electrical Expert

Thx kindly... I sent a note to him.

 

[naughtyG]

Re: Need Electrical Expert

I have attached both schematics.

Thanks

I may be wrong, but looking at your schematic you have a + going to the neutral switch, which itself connects to ground. So, when the neutral switch is closed, you connect the + to - which is a short circuit? :confused2:

 

[Ryanneal]

Re: Need Electrical Expert

I may be wrong, but looking at your schematic you have a + going to the neutral switch, which itself connects to ground. So, when the neutral switch is closed, you connect the + to - which is a short circuit? :confused2:

Sorry, that's my typo... at the top right of my schematic that is the current neutral switch line that I am tapping into, I just represented it wrong.

Here is the corrected schematic, including more info.


Thanks for pointing this out. Hopefully the new drawing is better.

 

[KansasBugkiller]

Ok if your going to do out of gear at stop light's do it when a car is all ready stopped behind you we like you as you are. Good luck

 

[Traumahawk]

ok if your going to do out of gear at stop light's do it when a car is all ready stopped behind you we like you as you are. Good luck

+1

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I got your message, and think I understand what it is you are trying to achieve.

Like the rest of the guys I think leaving it in nuetral is a less than optimal plan but thats not what your asking, you just want to know if it'll work.

Give me a bit to find that really cool wiring diagram "Dingy" made for us and I'll see what I can come up with.


Just a brain storm on my part, but another option is an RPM window switch set below 1200-1300 or so that parallells the brake activation circuit to your flash module and drives the flasher any time it's idling, with a disable switch to deactivate it when needed.

In any case give me a bit and I'll try to answer your question.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

According to the wiring diagram Dingy did for us

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=17986&highlight=wiring+diagram&page=2


Nuetral Switch is closed when in nuetral; Which should be in your favor.
Sidestand switch is open when side stand is down. Closed when sidestand is up; Which should be in your favor.

You can get a hard DC neg from one side of the nuetral switch to control the negative side of your circuit.

BUT, and this is a big BUT;
Hanging one side of a relay coil here to obtain your negativefor your Relay #1 is going to parrallel the diode module that is supposed to keep your indicator lights from acting stupid, and will probably cause all sorts of weird problems at MINIMUM. You'd need a diode in series with your relay coil to keep from feeding the indicator lights inappropriately and even then I'm not sure what the effects might be.

I also see a problem with the sidestand switch scenario being the driver of your relay #2
According to the diagram the sidestand is just like the nuetral in that one side of the sidestand switch is tied hard to Negative ground at all times, and when the stand goes up it takes that negative to the sidestand relay and energizes it, and it can also source a negative to the starting cut-off relay coil thru the clutch switch when the clutch is pulled in.
(See page 3 of the PDF)
The positive you would be need to obtain from the sidestand switch to drive your relay #2 is actually only "sort of positive" in that is coming from the side stand relay coil, one side of that coil really is a true positive, the other side that goes to the side stand switch is going to look like a positive with a meter when the side stand switch is open but it's downstream of the side stand relay coil and is actually "looking" for a negative to energize the sidestand relay coil.
In effect you would be putting two coils in series with each other, with attendant reduced voltage on your relay #2 coil and the side stand coil.

Honestly I don't see how to make this work without getting really complicated.

How about an RPM window switch that brings your brake light on at idle speeds, with a cutoff switch you control to disable it when you want to?

Or perhaps a coil hanging in parrallel with the nuetral light, with a cutoff switch you control to disable e it when you want to? The only problem with this scenario may be that the positive for the nuetral light comes from the fuel pump relay (I think it's just routed through the fuel pump relay, I don't think the fuel pump relay actually does anything with it?) and I don't know for sure how much load it can handle but a small relay isn't much load to speak of.....

My head hurts now, I'm going to go mow the yard