Rebuild or engine swap?

[Timbox]

Just joined and looking for some help in making a choice. I picked up a nice looking 1994 Vmax yesterday. I got her on the table today and did all the fun stuff to get her to run over and run. Well the engine was seized but with a little solution down the cylinders and then small pressure on the 19mm crank she came free.
I turned it over by had a few times with plugs out and was happy with no bad sounds or mechanical friction out of the normal. I had the plugs out and give it a turn over and nice spark on all 4 plugs. I was happy, but that didn't last.

Normalized up the engine and gave it a start....not a good noise coming from engine. I shut off the engine and then pulled the plugs again. I put some tubing down each cylinder and hand moved the crank. The right rear piston is not moving...broken connecting rod.

With that info would you recommend I fix the engine I have (27K miles) or just swap out with one fro ebay?

I have done top ends of many bikes. Pulled and swapped many as well. I just wonder with the price of a connecting rod being $20 or so not too sure what way to turn.

Thanks in advance and thanks to the forum for this great sight.

 

[Fire-medic]

I suspect you have a trashed big end & thrust bearing surface on the cases. Not worth fixing. A tear-down to confirm things. Did you have ball pein on anvil sounds? You can probably re-use the heads, tranny, & engine accessories.

http://vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf

 

[marsmax85]

find a cheap 86 to 93 I believe 1300 venture motor and swap the vmax parts over .. If you were close to Northern Va I have an extra one ... Use the search function to look up arts swap from your motor

 

[Timbox]

I suspect you have a trashed big end & thrust bearing surface on the cases. Not worth fixing. A tear-down to confirm things. Did you have ball pein on anvil sounds? You can probably re-use the heads, tranny, & engine accessories.

http://vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf

Thanks for the great feedback. I am looking forward to tearing into it, but I was leaning toward the different engine. I guess it will have to look and see what the damage is in there.

There was no visible bits or chunks in the oil, so when I heard the sound, I was a little shocked. Normally there is some sign that this has happened. I will tear into her today and see what I can find.
Thanks again for the feedback...great forum and I sure do want this bike to turn out.

 

[Timbox]

Looking over the used motor inventory on the good old Ebay, I did find a good engine. It has warranty and guaranteed to be good, so that sold me. Now just need to move the bike from the table to the bigger colder shed to do the engine removal and swap.

Thanks for the link to the manual I will be reading up on how to pull the engine. As for the rest of the bike, looks like only the left rear turn signal is broken (have to love them old rubber mounting things) and the kill switch rocker is not working. At least the kill swx is broken on the "on" position, as the bike still has spark and tries to turn over.

Hoping the seller who I have contacted about their "running bike" might be nice and help offset the cost of the new used motor. I am not holding my breath as they did sell me a broken bike when they said it was not broken. They said they will be sending me a box of extra parts but not too sure if I should hold my breath on that one. More to come once I get the bike moved and deal with these wonderful Wisconsin temps.

 

[Fire-medic]

'Running bike' and 'running bike with no issues' are two different things, unfortunately. Give us an update when you learn more.

 

[Timbox]

Other motor will be shipping in a few days.

As far as people selling stuff I understand that some are honorable and others don't care. I try to be the first one and always let the buyers of my bikes know if there are any issues with them. I have pride in what leaves my hobby shop and don't screw people.

The seller said I still got a good deal even with the broken connecting Rod...I don't see it that way. They have a lot more parts they should be sending me, but I will not hold my breath....they could shock me, and that would be a good thing.

On a good note...my 2003 Kaw Mean Streak boned paper work came in today, so that is now legal and ready for the road this spring. It is not a Vmax, but I hope it will be a fun bike as well.

 

[Radioguylogs]

It's really disheartening that some sellers don't have a conscience. I had a bad experience once.

You have the right attitude to end up happy in the end. We just have to realize that we here now, and move forward with the best solutions to make the bike into what we want it to be.

By coincidence, I came into possession of a Honda V65 with a bad connecting rod. I bought a used engine on eBay, and the bike is as good as new now. I hope you have the same good result.

Keep us posted!

 

[Jack Hammer]

Best way to buy a running engine is to hear it run prior to purchase. If the seller never offers to hear it run, never pay for the premium.

I once bought a turbocharged Kawi KX-12 engine abroad. We agreed to terms and price and I drove out to the neighboring country to go pick it up. It was an almost brand new engine that was fitted with a turbo kit and a tuner and it was dialed in, according to the seller. No nasty surprises here, it really was. Bought it on the spot after he hot-wired it to run on a stand. Paid for what we agreed based on the advertisement and what he delivered on the spot.

If someone advertises a running engine, make him run it before you buy it. If someone sells a bike with "needs a new battery to run", make him buy a new battery prior that you can compensate for with the final buck.

 

[Timbox]

@Jack Hammer , Thanks for the info, this is not the first bike I have bought. I have been doing this for a long time and the price was right. I did over pay a little for the bike, in the condition it is in. But trying to find a good unmolested Vmax in my area for under $5 US is very hard.

There are more paperwork issues with this bike as well, that is not going to be fun. I will have the bike back in running condition by the end of the month, but I don't know when I will be able to get it back on the road legally.

The seller is possible terminal, and for the most part does not care what happens with the outcome. So for the first time in my buying and selling of motorcycles I got caught with this one. Now just the paper work and the used engine and hope this will be a lesson learned.

If it was any other bike I would have walked away from the deal even though it was a 2 hr drive one way.

Now the good news, I am really shocked at how easy this bike is to work on in comparison to lets say the V65 Honda. Just a few screws and clamps and most of the air box and carbs come right off the bike. Reading up the vboost and how to remove the engine, looks like it is more or less straight forward. I just finished doing a 2003 Kaw Mean Streak with a 1600 CC motor and it looks almost the same.

 

[Fire-medic]

I once bought a turbocharged Kawi KX-12 engine

Hmmm, not even sure what is a KX-12, my knowledge of the KX series is that they use that prefix for dirtbikes. Even switching to the prefix 'KZ' which is used on the road bikes, I'm ignorant of the 'KZ-12.'

Z1, KZ900, KZ1000, KZ1100, KZ1300, those are the 900cc + air-cooled inline 4's with which I'm familiar. Is it something from a watersports product, or a snowmobile?

Speaking of turbos on air-cooled Kawasakis, here's one from an AMCA show last weekend. A GPZ1100 w/a Mr. Turbo kit. There was also a Z1-R Turbo with the colorful striping paint by Molly, who also created the 1970's broken-line black, yellow and white paint scheme for Yamaha. Both this home-built GPZ1100 and the factory Z1-R Turbos used Mr. Turbo kits.





If you know this model, you are a true Yamaha aficionado.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Sorry, ZX12. My bad.

 

[Radioguylogs]

... I am really shocked at how easy this bike is to work on in comparison to lets say the V65 Honda. Just a few screws and clamps and most of the air box and carbs come right off the bike.

I said the same thing when I got my Vmax !!! So much easier than the V65s.

 

[Timbox]

Same things on all these older bikes. The carb boots, I think I got luck and they are not too bad. I didn't have much fun taking the Vboost cable off, that had to be the weirdest or hardest thing to remove so far. I know it just had to be right to get if off and I hope it will go back in with ease.

The bike also has a after market oil filter plate on it. Has hoses coming from the "round" filter area to a flat plate with a screw on oil filter. I like the ease of it, but don't like how the filter may be hit with rocks and dirt.

Stopped today to let some penetrating spray do its work on the inner exhaust bolts. They look to be rusty and a little hard to get to. This bike has a 4 into 1 kerker. Once I removed the exhaust I will put the bike in the "T" brace I use when I remove engines.

So just want to get this Vboost right, looks to me like a way for the bike to have a syncro valve between the carbs. When the vboost kicks in it opens up that valve and lets the carbs flow into any cylinder they want? I am not trying to over simplify this, but seems that all the vboost does?

With other inline 4's or V4's you have to sync the carbs using vacuum. I say the vacuum ports on the tops of each of the Vmax carbs as well. If the vmax is properly synced then would the vboost really work? Just trying to wrap my brain around this. Thanks

 

[Fire-medic]

All arguments end with referral to the shop manual. 'Hard jobs' made easier, no questions about spec's, explanations about systems.

http://vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf
Since the OEM VBoost is closed at idle, synchronizing the carbs is easy, if it's left stock. Replacing the VBoost butterflies with open tubing as the Dynojet Stage 7 kit calls-for, and now you have no way to easily separate the carbs, since the #1/#2 and the #3/#4 carburetors are always open. There is no airflow connection between the right-side carbs and the left-side carbs. Just so no one misunderstands, I'm referring to right-side carburetors being connected with their venturis to the left-side carburetors (and vice-versa).

Draw the letter 'N' starting with the lower left cylinder sitting on the bike (1-2-3-4):



Spending a couple of hours going through the manual from front to back will make you much better-informed about the bike's design, servicing, and systems operations. You don't have to memorize the torque values and thread pitch/bolt size of the connecting rods, but as the Whole Earth Catalog said, it's access to tools. Your brain is the best tool to utilize, and knowing where to look to retrieve the service information you need will be much easier if you spend 'quality' shed time with your nose in the shop manual.

 

[Timbox]

Thanks a lot I also watched a video on it and that helped out. Once I saw that the vid and remember the intake and compression of each cylinder, then the light above my head went on. Very cool, you wold think they would do that with a lot more engines in the V4 family. I guess it might also be a Yam patent and only they can use it.

Just guessing the new 1700 with the FI system would not have it, as FI and the on board fuel system would take care of all fuel demands.

 

[Redrum]

Other motor will be shipping in a few days.

As far as people selling stuff I understand that some are honorable and others don't care. I try to be the first one and always let the buyers of my bikes know if there are any issues with them. I have pride in what leaves my hobby shop and don't screw people.

The seller said I still got a good deal even with the broken connecting Rod...I don't see it that way. They have a lot more parts they should be sending me, but I will not hold my breath....they could shock me, and that would be a good thing.

Hopefully your eBay guy isn't the same guy that sold you the bike.

I preferer to rebuild rather than swap in a used engine. I then know what I've got. All that work to get the engine in might be wasted effort if it's doesn't run or lasts a week. Even if he does honor the guarantee he's not going to pay for your install and removal.

I got hosed on a skid steer where the motor lasted 10 minutes after I got home. It was a good deal as well and didn't bother with fighting the seller. I rebuilt the motor for around $2k and it's still running great.

 

[Timbox]

Prepping the engine for removal and noticed that the old oil filter area looks to be broken off. I didn't notice that the day I picked it up. Now it was in a dark area that was not heated on a really cold day. All things that worked for the seller.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2ofG4uC] Vmax oil filter by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2ofHxHs] Vmax oil filter area by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2ofJi1a] Vmax oil filter broken by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
Just wondering if you have a 4 to 1 do you need a remote oil filter? Thanks

 

[maleko89]

No reason. So is there a remote oil filter somewhere on the bike already? My guess is someone broke/stripped the oil filter bolt/threads and just did the fix by using hose and clamp.

 

[one2dmax]

The bottom flange is common to get broken off. That is the fix since they don't generally weld up very good.