Shifting problem or normal?

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Soundedtrack

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I bought a new to me 2002 Vmax with 27k miles. It seems downshifting is more difficult than upshifting, it takes a little force and a second to get it to go down and shift. But if I blip the throttle to rev match, it goes right in every time.

I am unsure if this is a characteristic of the motorcycle or an issue; my other Yamaha, a fz1, had clunky shifting as well.

I reverse bled the hydraulic clutch to ensure no air bubbles, I adjusted the shift lever to my liking, and the bike does not move while I'm gear with clutch pulled, so I don't think the clutch is dragging.
I changed the oil to Maxima 10w40 with a new filter, just in case the old oil was weird.

Opinions?
 
I would think that what you describe is normal if you don't blip the throttle as you pull the clutch in.

Blipping on a downshift is good practice as it reduces the risk of the rear locking up and is kinder on the transmission as there will be less engine braking.

Imagine you are moving at a constant speed in first. If you maintain that speed and change up into second the revs will drop and will do so every time you shift up.

Now imagine that scenario in reverse. You want to shift down but for the engine to match the road speed in a lower gear it will need to be spinning faster. To achieve this you blip the throttle.
 
I would think that what you describe is normal if you don't blip the throttle as you pull the clutch in.

Blipping on a downshift is good practice as it reduces the risk of the rear locking up and is kinder on the transmission as there will be less engine braking.

Imagine you are moving at a constant speed in first. If you maintain that speed and change up into second the revs will drop and will do so every time you shift up.

Now imagine that scenario in reverse. You want to shift down but for the engine to match the road speed in a lower gear it will need to be spinning faster. To achieve this you blip the throttle.
Good afternoon, thank you for your reply. I have another question now.

There is minimal drag moving the bike forwards and backwards in neutral.
There is more drag, but not significant, if it's in 1st with clutch pulled in. I can hear the trans where I could not in neutral. Clutch pulled all the way in.

Is this the clutch dragging? I'm starting to think I have a slight drag. The lever starts to engage about a half inch from the grip.
 
When moving in neutral you are not having to put effort into rotating the middle gear, drives shaft or final drive.
I suspect it is you these additional components you can hear.
If the clutch starts to engage at half lever travel that sounds normal as well.
 
When moving in neutral you are not having to put effort into rotating the middle gear, drives shaft or final drive.
I suspect it is you these additional components you can hear.
If the clutch starts to engage at half lever travel that sounds normal as well.
Thank you
 
Suggest put bike on centre stand.
Engage 1st and tie clutch down to lever.

Try rotating the rear wheel.

If there is much resistance so that it tries to turn the engine, clutch has not fully disengaged.

Is it standard clutch?
How many miles done?
When wad last time clutch was bled and fluid replaced?
Any signs of clutch fluid leaks at master or slave?
Is clutch hose in good condition? (they rarely go bad)
 
Suggest put bike on centre stand.
Engage 1st and tie clutch down to lever.

Try rotating the rear wheel.

If there is much resistance so that it tries to turn the engine, clutch has not fully disengaged.

Is it standard clutch?
How many miles done?
When wad last time clutch was bled and fluid replaced?
Any signs of clutch fluid leaks at master or slave?
Is clutch hose in good condition? (they rarely go bad)
New to me, unknown how old clutch is.

There is no center stand. I will try what you are suggesting with a jack.

I reverse bled the system the other day to try to possibly diagnose. I ordered a proper syringe this time to possible do a better job, but the bleed did not help.

I do not see leaks, but could it be an air bubble? Even still.
 
When moving in neutral you are not having to put effort into rotating the middle gear, drives shaft or final drive.
I suspect it is you these additional components you can hear.
If the clutch starts to engage at half lever travel that sounds normal as well.

On reflection that is arse about face.
In neutral you will be moving the final drive, drive shaft, middle gear and secondary gearbox shaft.
In first gear you will also be driving the primary shaft and half of the clutch pack together with any oil drag.
 
So as an update. The clutch was sticking and appeared to be binding.

I pulled the clutch cover off and saw there was a gap between the plates and the end plate when the clutch was pulled. Discs stayed where they were.

The end plate was not moving out straight either, it was like one side had more movement which caused the discs to bind and stay put.

I swapped the spring plate 180 degrees and now it works, the plates spread as they should when the lever is pulled.

Opinions?
 
I swapped the spring plate 180 degrees and now it works, the plates spread as they should when the lever is pulled.
Makes me wonder if it was installed improperly to begin with. I'm not that familiar with the Vmax clutch, but I had an old Honda years ago that did the exact same thing.
 
If you check the Service manual, there is a stacking order for the pieces into the clutch basket, and you need to pay-attention to that. Apparently you've stumbled upon the better order of steelie/friction disc alignment, to compensate for what may-be slightly warped pieces. Look at the marks on the clutch tabs description.

I know we're men, but sometimes ya gotta read the directions. Start at 3-66 and pay attention to 3-68 and 3-69, for marks on the friction discs, the clutch basket, and the pressure plate.

VMX12- Service-Manual.pdf (vmoa.net)

VMax clutch friction disc tabs.01.pngVMax clutch alignment marks.png
 
If you check the Service manual, there is a stacking order for the pieces into the clutch basket, and you need to pay-attention to that. Apparently you've stumbled upon the better order of steelie/friction disc alignment, to compensate for what may-be slightly warped pieces. Look at the marks on the clutch tabs description.

I know we're men, but sometimes ya gotta read the directions. Start at 3-66 and pay attention to 3-68 and 3-69, for marks on the friction discs, the clutch basket, and the pressure plate.

VMX12- Service-Manual.pdf (vmoa.net)

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Looks like it's releasing OK, are you using a motorcycle oil? You're using an aftermarket pressure plate, with multiple springs? Perhaps the issue is in the springs, one or more may have lost its tension. Measure them for length, and the amount of force needed to compress them to a set length.
 
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Looks like it's releasing OK, are you using a motorcycle oil?
Yes. I got a bulk order of the Maxima dino oil, no synthetic. I tried that and also Castrol 4t in this bike to see if it's a difference.

Before I swapped the spring plate, where the pick was pointing there was a gap when the clutch was pulled.

Discs would stay in the same spot, but a gap would open and close with the clutch lever being pulled. I wonder if this is why the guy sold the bike, unfortunately I didn't notice on my test drive.
 
Now the clutch is operating?
Not sure yet. I swapped out the cobra slip on exhaust for a stock one, but found the rear exhaust gaskets were worn, so the pipes moved inside the clamp. Waiting on parts....

Was going to rebuild the clutch master and slave before I found the clutch issue when I was swapping the gasket.
 
OK I re-read the thread. I understand things better.

Do you have the OEM 1-piece diaphragm spring? And the OEM pressure plate?

I now believe from your description you do-not have a Lockhart-style multiple-spring pressure plate.

I've never encountered a weak diaphragm spring, though if someone was constantly drag-racing I'm sure that could happen.

I think rebuilding the master cylinder will help you. It sounds like the piston is bleeding internally. Question: does the lever come-back almost to the handlebar before the clutch releases? Say, that same half-inch?
 
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OK I re-read the thread. I understand things better.

Do you have the OEM 1-piece diaphragm spring? And the OEM pressure plate?

I now believe from your description you do-not have a Lockhart-style multiple-spring pressure plate.

I've never encountered a weak diaphragm spring, though if someone was constantly drag-racing I'm sure that could happen.

I think rebuilding the master cylinder will help you. It sounds like the piston is bleeding internally. Question: does the lever come-back almost to the handlebar before the clutch releases? Say, that same half-inch?

Yes, 1 piece OEM spring and pressure plate.

Was planning on replacing clutch, pulled everything out before ordering another diapragm spring for DD and 8 friction/8 plates and found these grooves.
See pic.

The larger piece has grooves I can feel, the smaller rotating basket I can see but barely feel. The top hat looking piece in the center of the nut, is this normal looking? Please advise..

Edit: After sitting the bike would be impossible to move in gear/clutch pulled in. A short ride would fix this, then after shifting, rinse and repeat.
 

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They don't look too notchy from the pics. An excessively notchy clutch would typically have the notchy feel at the lever too.
 
They don't look too notchy from the pics. An excessively notchy clutch would typically have the notchy feel at the lever too.

As a follow up to this since I am finally home long enough from work trips to ride it, a new clutch(whole discs instead of the half), new diaphragm spring(stacked on old one for DD mod), and new gasket solved my issue.

Butter shifting now. Able to move the bike cold with the clutch pulled in and in gear, and much less lurch when starting/putting in gear.

Now all I hope is the slight clutch grab didn't damage shifting dogs? No second gear pop out yet.
 

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