The Engine Used In A Touring Role

[AdvenJack]

I wanted to see Yamaha use this 1679 cc V4 in it's big touring motorcycles.
Has anyone seen this engine and entire drivetrain used in a custom set-up to propel a fully dressed motorcycle?
(something that would outshine the H-D tourers, Honda GW and Kawasaki V V)
Thank you all for whatever info you can share!

 

[totalcomfort]

Always dreamed of a vmax powered goldwing.

 

[AdvenJack]

I believe that the present Yamaha Star Venture should have been powered by the VMAX 1679 cc engine,
and I am convinced that it could have been hugely successful! I really dislike where my feet sit on a GW,
and my knee bend is to tight of an angle as well. In the attached picture we see how I like my feet and legs
to be. THIS could be true with the VMAX engine installed!

 

[Parminio]

You'd never get the mileage out of it. That's why Yamaha makes both a sport touring and a continental touring bike. The big V-twins are far better suited simply down to the gas mileage they get.

Nobody wants to be pulling over every 120 miles to fill up a gas guzzling V4 when they're on a 650 mile road trip. With the Vmax engine on that big heavy bike, that's exactly what you'd be doing.

 

[tbird71]

The old v4 on my tour deluxe does just fine. And gets REASONABLY good mileage with a big enough tank to go more than 100 mi on fill ups
And I have one of the new touring motors per se on my 06 113 Roadliner which is one of the best cruisers they ever made. I'd say if you want a goldwing get a goldwing. I'm perfectly happy with my Yams

 

[AdvenJack]

The old v4 on my tour deluxe does just fine. And gets REASONABLY good mileage with a big enough tank to go more than 100 mi on fill ups
And I have one of the new touring motors per se on my 06 113 Roadliner which is one of the best cruisers they ever made. I'd say if you want a goldwing get a goldwing. I'm perfectly happy with my Yams

I DON'T want a GW because of foot/leg comfort.
Couldn't the big VMAX engine be detuned from its high performance condition, down 20% or so, to then see better fuel economy?
Looking at the following link, people are reporting that their SIX cylinder motorcycles are delivering into the 50's MPG!

2021 Honda GL1800 GOLDWING TOUR DCT MPG - Actual MPG from 13 2021 Honda GL1800 GOLDWING TOUR DCT owners

The most accurate 2021 Honda GL1800 GOLDWING TOUR DCTs MPG estimates based on real world results of 59 thousand miles driven in 13 Honda GL1800 GOLDWING TOUR DCTs

www.fuelly.com

I'm curious, why can't an appropriately tuned FOUR cylinder do as well?

 

[Parminio]

Couldn't the big VMAX engine be detuned from its high performance condition, down 20% or so, to then see better fuel economy?

Then what would be the point? At that stage the 1900cc VTwin would outperform it.

The old v4 on my tour deluxe does just fine. And gets REASONABLY good mileage with a big enough tank to go more than 100 mi on fill ups

The Tour deluxe V4 is only 1300 cc's and 98 HP max. That's why it gets reasonably good gas mileage. But you also have to take into account it's a hundred pounds lighter than the Yamaha Venture is today.

If you take a Vmax 1700 that already gets bad gas mileage (27 - 32) and put it on a bike that's roughly 300 pounds heavier, your gas mileage is going to be in the pits. You'd be lucky to see 20 mpg. You would literally be out of gas completely, reserve and all, in 132 miles. At that rate you only outdistance my Gen1 Vmax by about 10 miles.

Pretty shitty performance for a "long distance touring bike".

Nobody that buys a touring bike like that wants to stop every hour and a half on a 600+ mile road trip.

 

[AdvenJack]

I hope I'm sounding sincere and not obnoxious with this inquiry. How is it possible for a properly tuned V4 at 1679 cc, to NOT be able to get equal fuel economy to the 1833 cc 6 cylinder Honda GW?

 

[AdvenJack]

Then what would be the point? At that stage the 1900cc VTwin would outperform it.

I believe a big V Twin can't possible be as smooth running as a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engine.
I want a smooth tourer.

 

[Parminio]

I believe a big V Twin can't possible be as smooth running as a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engine.
I want a smooth tourer.

Then you've obviously never ridden a good V-twin bike. A V anything is going to vibrate due to it's nature. Inline engines are always smoother.

To me there's really no vibration difference to speak of between the M109R and the Vmax. They feel about the same.

And of course the Venture is going to be far better insulated against vibration for that very reason: comfort.

So, yeah. That's a complete non-issue.

 

[Parminio]

I hope I'm sounding sincere and not obnoxious with this inquiry. How is it possible for a properly tuned V4 at 1679 cc, to NOT be able to get equal fuel economy to the 1833 cc 6 cylinder Honda GW?

Cam profiles, stroke, injector size, you know...pretty much everything that dictates how much fuel you use.

You can't take a high performance engine and simply say 'now get great mileage with close to the same performance on a bike that weighs 300 pounds more than the bike it was designed to run on'. If anybody could do that on a big touring bike that weighed in at just over 1000 pounds it would have already been done.

Edit to add: That's the very reason the Goldwing runs that big 1900cc flat six: Smooth power. Then again, the Gold Wing doesn't weigh a whole lot more than the Vmax does. At 800 pounds, it's a lot lighter than the Venture is, so they can get away with a good bit more in engine design.

 

[txfatboy]

I an not a long distance rider any more. My back is screaming after a 100 miles and it takes a couple of days to recover. That being said, My Victory Vision is a great counter part to my Vmax. The Victory is a fantastic bike. Yes its a big twin but is very smooth. It has multiple balance shafts, a timing chain and OHC's instead of pushrods, fuel injected, and gets 50+ mpg averaging 70mph fully loaded. As soon as it starts to roll it feels 300 lbs lighter and is very stable in the curvy parts. Add the stereo, heated grips, separate heated seats, tons of storage, full function cruise control, power windshield, adjustable air wings.. etc... It's a shame they folded the company. Great bike, low maint., super comfortable, and plenty of power for a big touring bike.

 

[AdvenJack]

I an not a long distance rider any more. My back is screaming after a 100 miles and it takes a couple of days to recover. That being said, My Victory Vision is a great counter part to my Vmax. The Victory is a fantastic bike. Yes its a big twin but is very smooth. It has multiple balance shafts, a timing chain and OHC's instead of pushrods, fuel injected, and gets 50+ mpg averaging 70mph fully loaded. As soon as it starts to roll it feels 300 lbs lighter and is very stable in the curvy parts. Add the stereo, heated grips, separate heated seats, tons of storage, full function cruise control, power windshield, adjustable air wings.. etc... It's a shame they folded the company. Great bike, low maint., super comfortable, and plenty of power for a big touring bike.

I have every confidence that your Victory is a very fine motorcycle.
Simultaneously I must say that I'm going with liquid cooled , 100%.
Thanks for contributing your info!

 

[txfatboy]

I have every confidence that your Victory is a very fine motorcycle.
Simultaneously I must say that I'm going with liquid cooled , 100%.
Thanks for contributing your info!

I totally agree. I would never buy the Victory...not because of any issue with the bike, but because it isn't my type of motorcycle (not a Vmax). The only reason I have it is because my Dad's knees are so bad he can't ride any longer, especially a bike that is almost a half a ton loaded with him and a passenger and gear. I agreed to take it and maintain it until his knees are replaced... or until I sell it.

 

[mattness]

me and my dad both was watching the yamaha countdown for the new venture. We were SO disappointed when they pulled the cover and it was that damn vtwin. IMO that is not a great Vtwin to ride. It chugs and lugs hard under 2k rpm and runs out of breath constantly. Shame. I do think a v4 touring bike wouldve sold.

 

[chriskep1]

Plus Polaris as a company absolutely sucks. You wouldn't believe what they did to me on a warranty claim on my jet skis. I wouldn't buy anything from them ever.

 

[starjak]

I wanted to see Yamaha use this 1679 cc V4 in it's big touring motorcycles.
Has anyone seen this engine and entire drivetrain used in a custom set-up to propel a fully dressed motorcycle?
(something that would outshine the H-D tourers, Honda GW and Kawasaki V V)
Thank you all for whatever info you can share!

check this out I have had these pictures a while now, this thread reminded me of them.

 

[swisher.drill.0s]

You'd never get the mileage out of it. That's why Yamaha makes both a sport touring and a continental touring bike. The big V-twins are far better suited simply down to the gas mileage they get.

Nobody wants to be pulling over every 120 miles to fill up a gas guzzling V4 when they're on a 650 mile road trip. With the Vmax engine on that big heavy bike, that's exactly what you'd be doing.

Hahaha. I do. It’s actually not so bad. The thumbs ups and conversations I get into, never mind the fun one can have on those 80 miles, which is as far as I want to go before pulling over are worth it. And I don’t go more than 2, 3 hundred miles in a single day. Why not just take a plane if you want to get there fast.

 

[swisher.drill.0s]

Hahaha. I do. It’s actually not so bad. The thumbs ups and conversations I get into, never mind the fun one can have on those 80 miles, which is as far as I want to go before pulling over are worth it. And I don’t go more than 2, 3 hundred miles in a single day. Why not just take a plane if you want to get there fast.

 

[FLVmax850]

Then you've obviously never ridden a good V-twin bike. A V anything is going to vibrate due to it's nature. Inline engines are always smoother.

To me there's really no vibration difference to speak of between the M109R and the Vmax. They feel about the same.

And of course the Venture is going to be far better insulated against vibration for that very reason: comfort.

So, yeah. That's a complete non-issue.

The V4 engine in the bike I just moved out of (03 Honda Magna) is regarded as the smoothest engine ever made. You need to look at a diagram or something because I talk with my hands and this is hard to explain, but a V4 has opposite and equal piston firing. That, coupled with the shorter drive shaft is why the V4 engine may not be your wife or gfs favorite but Im telling you on the Magna you could be doing over 100 and it almost didn't even feel like it was on sometimes.