Tuning my VGAS and Dyna 3000 on my new VMAX

[EN-V-MAX]

Picked up my first VMAX the other day. Very different machine then what I am used to! I feel like the bike is continually trying to make up its mind on whether its a sport bike or a cruiser. Makes for lots of riding fun. Anyway, I will list the spec of the bike I bought below, and then my questions.

2005 Vmax.
11k miles
Has V-GAS system from UFO
FatDaddy rear wheel with a 190 on it,
Dyna 3000 box
full UFO exhaust
New plugs
Bunch of other smaller mods.

The bike runs great, and has tons of power, but is really sluggish down low. Any RPM under 6k takes a while to really "catch" so to speak.I called up John at UFO performance who made the whole carb and fuel system and he said the system is intended to be "ROLLED INTO", not just wapped open instantly like you can do on a pure sport bike. The spark curve on my Dyna box is currently on switch SW4, and I have the rev limiter set to 10,500(not that I ever hit that anyway) I have run a tank of sea foam through the bike, put new plugs in it, always run premium, and it runs like a bat out of hell in the upper rpm's, but really lacks the punch down low. I think the AF ratios are most likely out of wack, but I really am not sure how to tell, or adjust, or even what switch I should be using on the Dyna box.

Anyone have any thoughts??...:confused2:

BTW, the bike has about $8000 worth of extras, is in pristine condition with 11k miles, is a 2005, has new tires, and I gave $2800 for it. The carb setup and rear wheel and exhaust alone where $5000...unk:

 

[Rusty McNeil]

First off do a search for the PDF cut sheet with curves and instructions on your dyna. There is such a thing as too much advance.
You'll see that curves are not in order and its not a typo or misprint. I've talked to their tech people and they confirmed 4 is more aggressive than 5

Curves in order of aggressiveness (ignoring all the retard curves) are;
1. Stock
2.
3.
5.
4. For highly modified engines

You're on way too aggressive of a curve unless there are internal mods you're not aware of.

You need to be on 1, 2 or 3. I'd go with 2 and see what it does.

I can't help you with the carbs other than to say Jon is right about rolling into them, although you should be able to do it briskly.
I put a set on a Bud's bike and had no issues, they worked perfectly although you could definitely feel a bog if you wack them WOT, when the motors not ready. (And they make you smell like gas)
Seat of the pants was a noticeable improvement over the Mikunis.
They're kinda like mechanical secondary carbs in that behavior, you can easily "open up too big a hole" too quickly and make the motor bog.
The accelerator pump curve (where they come in and how quickly in relation to throttle opening) and "CC shot" can be tuned to help that. They give it an extra squirt of gas as the throttle comes open to "fill that hole" while the engine is trying to catch up on the natural Venturi suction process.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

And you prolly would run better on premium too with stock compression, premium slows down the combustion speed in order to prevent detonation, robbing power in the process. It's only needed if you're detting, which is almost impossible with a stock motor unless the carbs were severely set up wrong.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Oh,
It sounds like you made a hell of a deal on it too!! Congrats and welcome!

 

[one2dmax]

Good deal on the purchase. Yes, you will need to roll into it and not wack it like you could with the stock carbs. the economy is also going to suffer compared to a stock carb setup with a jet kit. They can also have problems at high speeds sucking fuel out the stack and actually stop accelerating. You may be able to swap out the fuel chamber for a boyesen unit (I think I have some around here) to help with the throttle issue.

Sean

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I agree Sean about the speed thing. Pretty basic physics that air rushing past the tops of those stacks at a 90 degree angle is going to try to pull fuel back up out of them and make it hard to let air in.

Last time I rode my buddies bike I knocked the stacks off the carbs with my knees too.

Then again I'm kinda clumsy

 

[customizedcreationz]

Picture pictures pictures.....

Todd

 

[EN-V-MAX]

First off do a search for the PDF cut sheet with curves and instructions on your dyna. There is such a thing as too much advance.
You'll see that curves are not in order and its not a typo or misprint. I've talked to their tech people and they confirmed 4 is more aggressive than 5

Curves in order of aggressiveness (ignoring all the retard curves) are;
1. Stock
2.
3.
5.
4. For highly modified engines

You're on way too aggressive of a curve unless there are internal mods you're not aware of.

You need to be on 1, 2 or 3. I'd go with 2 and see what it does.

I can't help you with the carbs other than to say Jon is right about rolling into them, although you should be able to do it briskly.
I put a set on a Bud's bike and had no issues, they worked perfectly although you could definitely feel a bog if you wack them WOT, when the motors not ready. (And they make you smell like gas)
Seat of the pants was a noticeable improvement over the Mikunis.
They're kinda like mechanical secondary carbs in that behavior, you can easily "open up too big a hole" too quickly and make the motor bog.
The accelerator pump curve (where they come in and how quickly in relation to throttle opening) and "CC shot" can be tuned to help that. They give it an extra squirt of gas as the throttle comes open to "fill that hole" while the engine is trying to catch up on the natural Venturi suction process.

Thanks for the info Sir! I have searched and searched and cant find a sheet that is relevant to my Dyna box at all. There are 6 switches on the box: sw1-sw3 are for the rev. limiter, sw4-sw6 are for the spark curve. When I have the box installed, sw4 is the lowest setting I can set it to since it is the first switch for spark curve. Would you happen to have access to a PDF file that might help me out? I looked on the Dyna website and even tried calling them the other day but they were closed.

Yes, When I got the bike the accelerator pump and the four jets were not working at all. I have since blown them all out, primed it, and they work excellent, BUT, I did NOT think about adjusting the timing of it, so I will have to check into that. I should probably advance the pulse some...

And you prolly would run better on premium too with stock compression, premium slows down the combustion speed in order to prevent detonation, robbing power in the process. It's only needed if you're detting, which is almost impossible with a stock motor unless the carbs were severely set up wrong.

I already run the bike on premium as stated in my first post. Was this a typo and you meant to so do "NOT" run it on premium? I have only put two tanks through the bike, and ran premium in it because that is what the fella I bought it from said it needed, but You are right, with stock CR of 10:5, unleaded should be fine.

Oh,
It sounds like you made a hell of a deal on it too!! Congrats and welcome!

Thanks you sir! It was a right place right time sorta thing. I was worried that I would be shooting in the dark with regards to tuning this thing up, but after a phone call to Jon, and this forum, I am sure I can get it screaming.

Good deal on the purchase. Yes, you will need to roll into it and not wack it like you could with the stock carbs. the economy is also going to suffer compared to a stock carb setup with a jet kit. They can also have problems at high speeds sucking fuel out the stack and actually stop accelerating. You may be able to swap out the fuel chamber for a boyesen unit (I think I have some around here) to help with the throttle issue.

Sean

Sean, what do you mean by swapping out the fuel chamber? Not familiar with this....:ummm: Screw economy LOL. This is a hotrod. I have other bikes for cruising. Smelling like gas?... I always do anyway.:rofl_200:

I agree Sean about the speed thing. Pretty basic physics that air rushing past the tops of those stacks at a 90 degree angle is going to try to pull fuel back up out of them and make it hard to let air in.

Last time I rode my buddies bike I knocked the stacks off the carbs with my knees too.

Then again I'm kinda clumsy

Well, I had her to 140 mph this afternoon and she was still pulling hard, BUT, I do agree with the physics, and the stack do get in the way a little bit. I might rig up some 2 into 1 scoop system. Anyone ever do this before? A two into one scoop system with two inverted cone filters pointing toward the front of the bike would give me better flow and filtration. And I just ordered new stack socks too!!! :bang head:

Thanks for the help so far guys!!

 

[Fire-medic]

Doesn't Jon have some sort of ram-air designed for 'em? It's been awhile since I was on his site but I think there was a system he was just developing like what you describe.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Thanks for the info Sir! I have searched and searched and cant find a sheet that is relevant to my Dyna box at all. There are 6 switches on the box: sw1-sw3 are for the rev. limiter, sw4-sw6 are for the spark curve. When I have the box installed, sw4 is the lowest setting I can set it to since it is the first switch for spark curve. Would you happen to have access to a PDF file that might help me out? I looked on the Dyna website and even tried calling them the other day but they were closed.

You can download the installation PDF here (or from the attachment below) which includes a diagram of the ignition curves.

... with stock CR of 10:5, unleaded should be fine.

Agreed

I might rig up some 2 into 1 scoop system. Anyone ever do this before? A two into one scoop system with two inverted cone filters pointing toward the front of the bike would give me better flow and filtration. And I just ordered new stack socks too!!! :bang head:
Another option would be the UFO Ram Air Skoops[?

Thanks for the help so far guys!!

One other thought regarding the sluggish low revs performance. Check that the V Boost is working, i.e. that the butterflies have not been fixed in the open position.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

If thats a VGas setup he doesn't have VBoost anymore...

 

[Vmax Junky]

I run Jon's V-gas system on my 95 and absolutely love it. Noticeable improvement over over stock carbs. I'm also running Jon's 4 into 1 exhaust. True if you wrap the throttle to fast it will bog, Once I learned to roll throttle properly it became a serious monster. I seam to get about 85 miles out of a tank of fuel. Iv'e run Both Premium and Regular, regular fuel seems to be just fine (not dyno proven). Jon does a beautiful job setting up the carbs at assembly and is always very helpfull. He does offer ram air scoops for the Vgas carbs witch I'm sure would help with the fuel suction. Plus you don't knock the stacks with knees. I've knocked a stack off getting on the bike and noticed this morning one of my carb mounting boots was loose from the intake. So watch the knees. I don't have the dyna box yet and don't know alot about them, but would look hard there first.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

What year is your bike?
There's only two versions of the Dyna 3000.
Although they don't make the old one for the analog bikes anymore the sheet might be available.

I could be wrong in regards to the switches if yours is an early box, I've never researched those.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/Default.aspx

Once you get to the above link go to

Support
Downloads
Select dyna 3000 from drop menu box
Click search
Vmax old and new pdf sheets are towards the bottom

Looks like you possibly could use the higher curves if you are running premium

 

[wishbone]

Congrats on the bike, those FCRs are great carbs. I run the PCW 39mm with a 30mm bell and UNI filters lightly oiled. The carbs need clean fuel and a good fuel filter. I run threw the gears a little longer than with the stock carbs, they will bog, just treat it like a dirt bike! You will need to keep an eye on them for problems like loose parts bad hoses and tune and keep them clean inside very important, well worth the trouble.Do a search on FCR tuning manual great stuff. I have been running these on the same bike sense the early ninties. No info on dyna I run cops with the stock box.

 

[Horrendous]

I wanna see some pics!

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[SpecOps13]

Welcome to the Forum,,,,, But...........:ttiwwp:

 

[EN-V-MAX]

Doesn't Jon have some sort of ram-air designed for 'em? It's been awhile since I was on his site but I think there was a system he was just developing like what you describe.

Yes sir, he does, but it replaces the stock fake ram air side panels, and I kinda like the look of open carbs. Maybe just a slight forward slant to the vel. stack would help some, although this is the last of my concerns for now since the bike runs GREAT on top end.

One other thought regarding the sluggish low revs performance. Check that the V Boost is working, i.e. that the butterflies have not been fixed in the open position.

No V-boost. This system doesn't have it.

If thats a VGas setup he doesn't have VBoost anymore...

Yup Yup! :biglaugh:

I run Jon's V-gas system on my 95 and absolutely love it. Noticeable improvement over over stock carbs. I'm also running Jon's 4 into 1 exhaust. True if you wrap the throttle to fast it will bog, Once I learned to roll throttle properly it became a serious monster. I seam to get about 85 miles out of a tank of fuel. Iv'e run Both Premium and Regular, regular fuel seems to be just fine (not dyno proven). Jon does a beautiful job setting up the carbs at assembly and is always very helpfull. He does offer ram air scoops for the Vgas carbs witch I'm sure would help with the fuel suction. Plus you don't knock the stacks with knees. I've knocked a stack off getting on the bike and noticed this morning one of my carb mounting boots was loose from the intake. So watch the knees. I don't have the dyna box yet and don't know alot about them, but would look hard there first.

Yeah, they are a neat setup and I am really getting the hang of running them correctly.

What year is your bike?
There's only two versions of the Dyna 3000.
Although they don't make the old one for the analog bikes anymore the sheet might be available.

I could be wrong in regards to the switches if yours is an early box, I've never researched those.

2005

http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/Default.aspx

Once you get to the above link go to

Support
Downloads
Select dyna 3000 from drop menu box
Click search
Vmax old and new pdf sheets are towards the bottom

Looks like you possibly could use the higher curves if you are running premium

HAHA!!! Thank you sir! I just realized that I was reading the box wrong! I didn't know you could use a combination of switches! Looks like I have actually been running it on adv4! I will go back down to 1 tomorrow and see how it does! NO plans on running premium since the bike doesn't need it. Just regular gas and gonna try the lowest adv curve.

Congrats on the bike, those FCRs are great carbs. I run the PCW 39mm with a 30mm bell and UNI filters lightly oiled. The carbs need clean fuel and a good fuel filter. I run threw the gears a little longer than with the stock carbs, they will bog, just treat it like a dirt bike! You will need to keep an eye on them for problems like loose parts bad hoses and tune and keep them clean inside very important, well worth the trouble.Do a search on FCR tuning manual great stuff. I have been running these on the same bike sense the early ninties. No info on dyna I run cops with the stock box.

What is COPS? I see it referred to a lot on the forum? Thanks for the carb tips...

I wanna see some pics!

Coming up tomorrow! :eusa_dance: I havn't taken any of the bike and I have it appart and the carb off, soaking in chemdip right now. Good clean synchronized carbs, regular fuel, and setting the box down to sw1 should improve a lot!

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Welcome to the Forum,,,,, But...........:ttiwwp:

Thanks! Pics on the way....unk:


On another note, I have played around with setting and can't get the forum to send me email notifications... anyone have a fix for this?:ummm:

 

[Fire-medic]

Coils-over-(spark) plugs primary ignition mod, most of us w/the mod got them here from Gannon, who is currently trying to source a new supplier for the resistors he uses, since the co. was bought-out. He turns-out a very professional 'plug & play' product.

I have both the COP's & the Dyna 3000 ignition box/coils but at the moment am still using the stock system, when I get the time and am more-healed, I will experiment.

 

[EN-V-MAX]

Coils-over-(spark) plugs primary ignition mod, most of us w/the mod got them here from Gannon, who is currently trying to source a new supplier for the resistors he uses, since the co. was bought-out. He turns-out a very professional 'plug & play' product.

I have both the COP's & the Dyna 3000 ignition box/coils but at the moment am still using the stock system, when I get the time and am more-healed, I will experiment.

Wow! Thats a cool idea! Is Gannon the fellas user ID who sells these? I will have to give him a shout. Whats the COPS setup cost?

As for the DYNA box, what level's are all you fellas who have and use one finding best to run on? I switched it to #1, but after reading the instruction manual PDF that was kindly thrown up here, I am thinking about running on #2. Jon @ UFO said he gets best results from #4 though...:ummm: