What causes glazing on rotors/pads?

[coffee_brake]

After 18 months of owning my '02, I like the bike but the brakes are scary bad. Honestly, when folks pull out in front of me in traffic, I can't get the bike to stop. My little Nighthawk 750 with the drum in the back and a single disc up front stops ten times better! I'm never scared of traffic on that Honda, but the Yamaha has a crease in the seat from all the puckering.

I've done some mods and there's been some improvement, but not much.
Of course the fluid is perfectly new and clean and bled properly.
New stainless lines all around, new master cylinder with the smaller piston (same size as the FJR upgrade), R1 calipers with aggressive pads.

Searching this forum, I read about the rotors glazing. I've heard of the pads glazing but not the rotors. What causes this? I don't ride the brakes and let my rotors get too hot, and I don't keep the binders on while stopped, causing them to retain heat warp the rotors. Besides, it's had crappy braking since I got it. I didn't do it!

The only stock component left is the rotors, I can't think changing them would cause that much difference....would it? I can't do the EBCs or Galfers anyway.

The rear is so warped I try not to use it, it makes the bike lunge. But front brakes may as well be made of wood. I just scuffed the rotors all around, if it makes any difference I'll be thrilled.

Is there an alternative to the expensive Galfer rear rotor?

 

[[email protected]]

Ebay.

Get used from Pinwall or upgrade to some of the chinese wave rotors. A few guys are running these and have good luck. Not really cheap but way cheaper than the galfers http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FRON...4085717QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Just my opinion, a low budget fix.... I would remove the front pads and scuff the face of them with some 80 grit emery paper. Do the same to the contact surfaces of the rotor....scratch it up real good. Reassemble and test by hand with the front wheel off the ground, having a helper hit the brakes while you are spinning the wheel by hand. Make sure the calipers are fully releasing when you release the brake lever; dragging brakes will cause glazing! The rear probably needs the rotor replaced, cheap replacements can be found on ebay! Definitly want to get those rears working...they provide you braking power that you need and bike should have them or not be rode! Bob

 

[coffee_brake]

What is glazing? I know how to get it scuffed off, but what is it? My other bikes don't do this.

I'm aware of the rotors choices including good results with the Chinese ones, but I have upgraded every other component of this front brake system with no real improvement. Would rotors really significantly help? The new MC helped the most but not enough to call these brakes competent.

If it's glazing that has my system compromised, that's fine, I can remove it.
But if the stock rotor itself is so poor, then I'll look into rotors.

I appreciate any advice, thanks....

 

[gamorg02]

that setup really shouldn't have problems. my stock setup always stopped me fine, and now with braided and fjr master it works well (16mm bore tho)..

i personally don't think rotors could make THAT much of a difference. but before you dump your money maybe see if someone on the forum has some spares you could try (or maybe talk to Sean about trying some used ones)...

also take a look here. sounds similar:

http://www.vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/r1_caliper_conversion.htm

 

[coffee_brake]

Good article, thanks.....I'm pretty much there, sintered pads and all.

 

[maxcruiser]

Hey CB,

Glazing is usually caused by one or two reasons, overheating of brake pads or improper bedding of the brakes. When pads are overheated, the material begins to breakdown and for lack of better words, they melt resulting in glazing - the brake material can also glaze onto the rotors.

What type of pads are using?

Mike

 

[naughtyG]

I just put EBC HH pads on mine ('86) with stock rotors and calipers, but S/S lines, and saw aq small improvement. Not great breaking, but still adequate.
Then I went to the chinese wave rotors (still stock '86 1-piston calipers) which are a bigger diameter (same as '93+ Max) and that was so much better.

I still don't think it compares to a modern bike braking, but for me it's pretty good - I can most definitely lock both front and rear wheels now which I think is more than adequate.

 

[SpecOps13]

naughtyG, Those rotors are a nice looking setup that you put on at the last Tech Day.

My stock 94 braking system, front brakes will totally lock the wheel down in an emergency stop. The rear is a totally different story, it's really sad for a brake on a performance bike. It slows the bike a little. Brakes are in my distant future, this has been a good read.

Dave

 

[gamorg02]

naughtyG, Those rotors are a nice looking setup that you put on at the last Tech Day.

My stock 94 braking system, front brakes will totally lock the wheel down in an emergency stop. The rear is a totally different story, it's really sad for a brake on a performance bike. It slows the bike a little. Brakes are in my distant future, this has been a good read.

Dave

i'd recommend EBC and organic pads from sean for the rear

 

[coffee_brake]

I'm running EBC HH (sintered, I asked for the most aggressive pads I could get) in my R1 calipers.

I took a Scotchbrite to the front rotors, maybe this is going to help when I finish making dinner and head out for a short ride....

 

[KJShover]

i personally don't think rotors could make THAT much of a difference.

Night and day difference when I went from the stockers to the wavys. I had to re-adjust the rear brack to stop it from locking up to easy and the front I had to lighten it up a tad.

Definately money well spent in my eyes.

 

[one2dmax]

Note that many "race" or "sintered" pads work better when heated up. When just putting around they won't work as well. That's why stuff listed as race are not always the right parts for the street.

Sean

 

[coffee_brake]

Good call....

My ride last night was too short and slow to get any real feel for the difference. Also turned 40k miles..

I'm so used to engine braking to every stop that I hardly use the brakes in town. Heading out again today.....

 

[coffee_brake]

OK scrubbing the rotors with a ScotchBrite pad did a lot of good. There's a lot more grab than before.
It's not a fantastic set of brakes, but it sure beats what it was before...

 

[Elimax]

Re. the Scotch Brite pads...are they all the same, or are there different "grades" of them, some "grades" being better for scrubbing the brake parts?

Thanks!

Elimax

 

[tugla]

there are different grades, red, grey green might be more not sure. now i cant remember which is the more aggressive and softest as im always using the red on aluminum i will assume its the softest or less aggressive but i could be way out to lunch. the store or someone on line will be able to tell you im sure.

 

[joelyons50023]

A quick easy way to see if the calipers are dragging is to go for a ride and not use the front brakes, when you get back see if the rotors are HOT if they are ok to touch with your hand then they are ok, most of the time you always have brake drag but it is small. I got SBC HH pads and they work great with every thing else stock.

 

[coffee_brake]

Scotchbrite got off some glazing, evidently. Brakes are by no means stellar, but they have a LOT more bite than before. I'm a lot less worried now.

I think I'd like to remove the pads and deglaze them too, and see if that brings the bike up to speed....or down from speed, I guess.

Thanks for the tips, I knew about glazing on the pads but I didn't know about the rotors. Now I can put my meager upgrade funds toward a rear rotor, mine's in terrible condition.
What's the least expensive option for that?

 

[gamorg02]

Jenn i'd probably say a stock one from fleabay, but no gaurantee its not bent. sean probably has a plethora of barely used.

i think the next cheapest is an EBC. i may have one for sale soon. 2k miles on it..