yes,another charging topic...

[carrizog60]

hi

my max has been acting up since i bought her.
only charges above 2500 rpm,at idle or low rpm woudnt charge.
thought i had a bad stator and sent to repair,but they tested it ok.looks new also.(bike has 8900 km 2001 model)
yesterday i reinstalled the stator and went to check and here is my findings:
started bike fine and at idle it showed 14v(wtf?self repair unit?)
with some revs the voltage went up to 14.5v and stayed there.

all fine?nope.had to stop the fools victory dance:banana:

has soon as the fan kicks in the voltage starts to drop,bike start to run rough at idle and voltage shows less than 13v.
as soon as fan shuts of voltage starts to climb slowly,but now it doesn't charge more than 14.1, even at higher rpms.
tested a R1 regulator i had on hand and it showed the same thing.

what now?can be the battery bad?it always started fine,even after being weeks at rest or at hot starts.
i already messed with the charging electric installation by adding 2 wires directly form the R/R to the battery(positive and ground).gained half volt by doing this.

can the stator be bad despite what the repair shop said?:ummm:

 

[Fire-medic]

Yes, it sounds like a bad battery from the readings you're getting under load. Wouldn't it be a good idea to fuse any hot leads like your R/R to battery, to prevent an electrical fire?

 

[blaxmax]

If your stator and r/r checked out it is likely the battery.

 

[Miles Long]

Yup, the battery is the first thing to have checked out. Have it load-tested, at a reputable shop.
The stator can be tested "hot" as well. Compare readings for A.C. voltage, resistance and continuity, both in the cold state, and after bringing the bike up to operating temperature.
Follow this excellent thread http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19108
The "Electrosport" Fault-finding chart can be found a few posts into the thread.
If all checks out, could be the fan motor itself, but doubtful. Does it spin freely? Clean all connections to the fan, including the fuse connections.You could also do a fan amp draw test directly at the fuse box.
Cheers!

 

[carrizog60]

thanks for the replies
i didn't test the stator output in volts AC,i did test then putting the negative probe on ground and the positive on each stator wire.
got a reading of 5volts dc out of each at idle which seems ok,but monday i will test the AC output.
wouldn't take this measurement at hot when its not charging diagnose a bad stator?
on the link it didn't make any suggestion on how to diagnose on hot.

i don't know any place that could check the battery,is there a way that i can test it myself at work?
unplugging the spark plugs so it doesn't start and crank it?

thanks again

 

[Miles Long]

thanks for the replies
i didn't test the stator output in volts AC,i did test then putting the negative probe on ground and the positive on each stator wire.
got a reading of 5volts dc out of each at idle which seems ok,but monday i will test the AC output.
wouldn't take this measurement at hot when its not charging diagnose a bad stator?
on the link it didn't make any suggestion on how to diagnose on hot.

i don't know any place that could check the battery,is there a way that i can test it myself at work?
unplugging the spark plugs so it doesn't start and crank it?

thanks again

http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

The chart is generic, but does cover testing Yamaha stators.
To test for stator output, set your meter on A.C. volts (if meter is not auto-ranging, expected output will be 50 volts + @5000 rpm).
Disconnect the three-wire stator connector, and measure between all combinations of the three wire connectors on the stator side (a-b, a-c, b-c) You should read upwards of 50 volts A.C. at 5k rpm, and all reading should be approximately the same.
You can do this test immediately after starting the bike, and then repeat after the bike has warmed up.
Resistance and continuity tests are done with the bike off.
Resistance is done between the combination of wires as above, continuity is done between each stator wire and a good ground point. Sometimes a winding will short out after the stator is hot, and this will show up on these tests.
The values for resistance are in the chart. Of course there should be no continuity between any stator winding and ground, hot or cold conditions.
If you can't have your battery tested at a shop, put your meter across the battery terminals and observe the D.C. reading while cranking the bike. It should not drop below 9-10 volts while cranking.
Let us know your results. Cheers!
EDIT - With so little mileage on your bike, chances are the problem is not the stator. In addition to the fan wiring, you should also check all the headlight wiring and connections for corrosion, since the headlight is always on, and draws a lot from the battery/charging system.

 

[carrizog60]

your right but if corrosion was the problem then it would do it all the time i guess.
monday will test the stator when hot and the battery,but it always cranked fast...

i dont like the "install new parts" method of fault finding like some shops do,partially because i am no mr.burns with big money and because by doing so i cant understand what was the problem and solve it next time...

monaday will report back

thanks miles

 

[Miles Long]

Another quick check -
Remove the headlight fuse. Start and run the bike until the fan comes on, and see if the volts recover after it shuts off. If they do, I'd suspect your battery.........by the way, how old is the battery, and what type is it?
Traditional lead-acid batteries don't last very long in these bikes.
I'm with you on that "replace everything till you find the fault" philosophy. Much better to take troubleshooting one step at a time.
Good luck!

 

[carrizog60]

hi
Dont know battery age since i have bought the bike with it already since may .owner said it was new but who knows... It a lead/acid type.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I'm with you on that "replace everything till you find the fault" philosophy. Much better to take troubleshooting one step at a time.

...particularly as you are an eccentric millionaire who has a p.a. to carry the loose change of $100 bills for you.

PS: I'd have the battery tested before doing anything else.
When putting it back put a strap around it (seatbelt webbing is ideal) to make future removals easier.

 

[carrizog60]

ok,here are my findings for today.
3 wires from stator showed almost 70volts AC at 5000,cold and hot.
tested with a yb16al-a2 battery from a ducati and same problem.
my battery when crancing with light on never dropped below 10.5v so its fine.
charging at idle before fan hits is almost the same if i rev the bike but never exceeds 14.4v.
after fan hits voltage drops and after fan shut down voltage starts to rise but slowly,and never to the voltage that it would achieve before.
grounds to the motor and frame are good,added another one from battery to frame.

i am lost...

 

[jfeagins]

IMO, if your CDI box is misfiring with 13V still showing, it may be time for a new CDI box. Also, if your r/r will charge at a rate of 14.5+ volts one minute, but later will not, then it may also be time to get a new r/r. But that's just my opinion.

 

[carrizog60]

ok,now it doesnt charge at 14.5...

start and it shows 13.5 and sometimes less.
and it only charges at that voltage if i ver it above idle for awile.
new regulator was tested and same result.
at the end positive side of the regulator i see 0.8 volts
stator wires at idle show 18volts AC
at 4000rpm(above 3000 its the same) i can see the 14.5 volts IF i pull the headlight fuse.
with headlight on it takes one volt.

 

[blaxmax]

I think you have a dead cell in the battery.

 

[Miles Long]

Going back to your first post, you got a voltage increase by removing the stator, having it tested, then re-installing.
Do you suppose that perhaps the better performance was a result of disconnecting/connecting the three-wire plug?
This connection is a weak point on the Max, as well as many other bikes. Lots of owners eliminate the connector completely, but this makes subsequent stator testing difficult.
Replacing each wire with an individual bullet connector, with both ends soldered and heat shrinked, and then assembled with di-electric grease, is another option.
You will have nothing to lose by doing this mod, now that you know(?)* your stator is O.K..
* (?)....by the way, did you do the tests for resistance and continuity, both hot and cold?
Cheers!

 

[Bill Seward]

One good way to replace that sketchy 3-wire connector between the stator and the regulator is to use Posi-Lock connectors. They are simple to install, and are easy to disassemble in order to test the stator. They also have almost no added resistance, so you get to use everything your stator puts out to keep the battery charged. They even make waterproof ones. Most people just slip a piece of heat shrink tube over each connector to make them less likely to get wet inside.

 

[carrizog60]

I think you have a dead cell in the battery.

Tested with other battery and its the same.wasnt new but was from a working bike.

The 3 connector its ok as i tried the new regulator with individual wires i added extra wires on the ground and positive wires.added another ground from battery to frame.
I tested the stator for continuety and its ok. Resistence both hot and cold is very close on the 3 wires.

 

[blaxmax]

If you are sure your battery is good the next thing would be the r/r.First thing I did when I bought mine used was buy a new battery next was the "crimp"
being eliminated then the upgraded r/r. Check this one below- it worked for me and I believe it would be next in line then stator last.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201358295479?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[carrizog60]

problem is that i already tried new regulator,different battery,wires directly from r/r to battery,and the stator tested ok...

 

[jfeagins]

problem is that i already tried new regulator,different battery,wires directly from r/r to battery,and the stator tested ok...

New R/R? Or a different R/R from another bike? Was the different/new R/R the version with it's own dedicated ground wire, or another of the older OEM versions that grounded through the rear peg assembly? Because that rear peg assembly becomes a terrible ground source as it ages, and all the individual parts & bolts become rusted etc..., thereby not allowing an R/R to properly perform it's function.

Just thinking out loud here.