"Seat" those carbs-easily!

Having recently written to CaptainKyle, (thank-you for another question answered) I was working on the carbs and while I had recently purchased lower carb boots, I had not replaced the airbox-to-carb bellmouth rubber boots, and was having a time getting them to seat. They were tight in the airbox, but I could not get them to assume the position on-top of the carb bellmouths (closest to the air filter).

For removing the rack of carbs, Kyle had suggested using a stick under the front & back of the carb bodies & the valve covers as a fulcrum to loosen the rack of carbs from the lower rubbers, which worked great. Now I have a designated 'carb/wood dowel removal tool.' A broom handle by any other name works as-sweet.

Now it was time to replace the airbox.

So there I was trying to summon enough avoirdupois to work in-conjunction w/Mother Earth (gravity) to allow the airbox to pop-onto the carbs. It wasn't happening.

Now I am >200 lb. and can usually accomplish anything where bulk is an advantage, but I will never be able to follow Lawrence of Arabia and his camel through the eye of a needle. That would be a Brough act to follow.

Sitting there, next to my bike, wondering if it is time to use the "water test" as they did in colonial New England to discover whether or not a person was a witch, I was almost to the point of removing all those airbox rubbers and throwing them into the boiling water, to soften them up so I could then place them onto the carbs and let them cool/contract, solving my problem. I didn't want to go to the trouble.

Seizing on the moment, I decided that perhaps a more-direct application of force was in-order. I climbed onto the bike, after positioning the airbox directly-above the carb tops. Now I was standing on the footpegs w/the bike on its centerstand (you Kerker 4/1 guys will have to use a rear trackstand). I carefully positioned one foot at a time onto my case guards while holding-onto the handlebars. Then I sat onto the airbox lid and had the most-gratifying "plop!" as the airbox dropped about 1/2" neatly onto the carbs. "Mission accomplished!" Now tighten those clamps and you might as well check the clamps under the carbs too.

The summation:
Airbox loose? "Sit on it." And try to avoid 'methane blow-through.' It is flammable, and you don't want to cross the explosive threshhold, so put down the Marlboro, man.

hahah good job man. might be able to put a wipe of wd40 on a rag and on the boots to help ease the box on........

Fire-medic said:

I climbed onto the bike, after positioning the airbox directly-above the carb tops. Now I was standing on the footpegs w/the bike on its centerstand (you Kerker 4/1 guys will have to use a rear trackstand). I carefully positioned one foot at a time onto my case guards while holding-onto the handlebars. Then I sat onto the airbox lid and had the most-gratifying "plop!" as the airbox dropped about 1/2" neatly onto the carbs.

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I suspect the departed Health & Safety Inspectors will be rotating in their collective grave when they read that!

May I respectfully suggest that a far simpler (and potentially less hazzardous) method is to smear a little silicon grease around the inside of the rubbers before installing. All that is then required is a firm push on the top to experience the gratifying 'plop' referred to.

Far more preferable to getting your arse stuck in the airbox.... how do you explain that down at the Casualty department!

MaxMidnight said:

May I respectfully suggest that a far simpler (and potentially less hazardous) method is to smear a little silicon grease around the inside of the rubbers before installing. All that is then required is a firm push on the top to experience the gratifying 'plop' referred to.

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MaxMidnight said:

+1. I use clear silicone grease ( Dow Corning 111 "Valve lubricant & Sealant") for a variety of jobs. Not messy like other types of greases, provides a moisture barrier, is a "non-curing sealant"(good for those stubborn carb air leaks), and has a wide temperature range.
Around vehicles, it's great as a weatherstripping lubricant to keep the doors from freezing shut(probably not needed in Florida), coating grommets prior to installation, protecting electrical connectors against moisture, etc.
It's also good as a release agent when constucting fibreglass and bodyfill parts , using the molding process.
Cheers!

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Likely your carb boots need replaced. They are normally very soft and supple and almost no effort at all is required to seat the airbox. I used to fight it like that until we started replacing those with hard boots.

Sean

Thanks for the insights guys. We can all use a bit of "humour," as our British friends say!
I am gonna get some Dow 111 on my way to install my rebuilt rear caliper, it was sticking & luckily I wan't far from where I am working on it when it happened while checking out the ride after other work which has been done.

Yeah, 20 y.o. rubber boots aren't the most co-operative, about as co-operative as a 4 y.o. at bedtime! I did replace the bottom carb boots to the VBoost & that made a big difference in ease of installation & leakage.

Is the top of your airbox ass-shaped now? Who knows, a dual concavity lid could suddenly add 5hp by some fluke of physics.

Who recalls "TSCC?" A feature of another Jap. brand. Maybe there is something to the semi-spherical depressions left in the airbox!

"Methane Motor?" Try the hydrocarbon which isn't "just another aromatic h-c!"

I went to the auto parts store for some D-C 111 but all they had was Permatex, no Dow.

Took my bike for a ride after rebuilding the rear caliper, it had been dragging, thought it was corrosion on the pistons/seals/caliper body which kept the pistons from retracting. Removed it, split the body, used my trusty Dremel to clean the grooves in the caliper, a wire wheel for the pistons, brake cleaner spray for the orings, caliper body & pistons. I checked all passageways, & reassembled it. I checked the hose from the master cyl to the caliper, off the bike, good flow, no apparent internal collapse. Reassembled everything, used my Mityvac, pumped-up the brakes, both pads contract & squeeze apparently equally.

Took it for a short spin, everything worked ("hel-lo VBoost!") & headed back to the shop, as I pulled in, I felt the rear brake dragging-again. Guess I have to tear -down the rear master cyl., no rebuild kits in-stock & Parts Unlimited is back-ordered until Jan. 20, Tucker Rocky likewise. Hope a thorough cleaning does the trick!

Sit-rep tomorrow p.m.

Fire-medic said:

Took it for a short spin, everything worked ("hel-lo VBoost!") & headed back to the shop, as I pulled in, I felt the rear brake dragging-again. Guess I have to tear -down the rear master cyl., no rebuild kits in-stock & Parts Unlimited is back-ordered until Jan. 20, Tucker Rocky likewise. Hope a thorough cleaning does the trick!

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Fire-medic said:

Mr. Medic - Are you certain that you have the brake adjusted correctly, at the master cylinder? The end of the pushrod must be visible in the hole of the clevis. If you have the Clymer manual, this is explained on page 84, figure 55.
This is in the General Maintenance chapter of the book, and is not mentioned in the brake maintenance section at all.
I had rebuilt my rear slave cylinder last winter, thinking that it had been the reason for brake drag. After noticing that the rear rotor was still hot (after only using the front brake), I looked for other causes. Mis-adjustment at the master was the culprit.
I don't want to hijack any further. I can post a photo and the explanation in a new post under the "Brakes" section, if you or anyone else requests this.
Cheers!

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Hey, no 'hijack,' unless you are greeting your friend Jack. One thing I appreciate about this forum is that there is really no appearance of the Internet Police who think they need to tell others what to do. The administrator and the mods rarely have to make an appearance, and my opinion of that is that we are mature-enough to conduct ourselves accordingly. I have been on forums where people delight in playing Internet Police, they must have been "bullied" daily in secondary school, now they use the internet as a place to "get even." Those sites, once I discover that behavior, are sites which I do not revisit.

The bike is not dragging when stationary, it isn't until I ride it & use the rear brake that it seems to 'pump-up,' & I have owned the bike since it was purchased from a dealership w/1700 mi. on it. The rear master has not had the adjustment changed from stock as far as I know, but I will check your suggestion tomorrow & the factory manual, of-which I have a copy. Cold, the setting is OK & it stands to reason that if the return hole is plugged, that over-time pressure will build from repeated brake use, similar to a grease gun continuing to push-out grease, unless the nipple is blocked, then either the handle won't go down when you try, or the grease gun head pushes-itself off the zerk. And, that is exactly what happens, the brake lever loses all free-play, it only moves 2-3 mm & then is rock-hard, and the pistons push the pads against the rotor tighter than a crack monster clutches a baggie w/product.

Someone else suggested checking if my seating position caused my foot to activate the brake, and I did pay-attention to that, and do not believe that is the cause either.

Any possibilities need to be considered.

Fire medic, your ass is obviously heavier than your hands! Makes sense. Gravity wins again. :rofl_200:


I'm with Miles on the silicon lube idea. I went and got some seals from somewhere and the bloke charged me almost nothing, so I had a look around to buy something else to show my appreciation. I got a big box of o-rings, and a tube of this stuff --> http://www.parker.com/portal/site/P...t=O-RING+LUBRICANTS&Wtky=O-RINGS&vgnextfmt=EN

It's awesome! I've been giving the inside of water hoses a bit of a wipe before putting them on. Used it on the v-boost rubbers when I refitted the carbs. It's great stuff to have around!
Oh yeah, my rubbers are as hard as hell, but this stuff works great.

Hi Miles, just got done tearing-down a spare rear master cyl. & inspecting/cleaning it thoroughly. Not much in the way of crud in there, though the small hole under the reservoir 90 degree fitting would not take much to plug it. Any suspended debris (do the pronounce it "duh-'bris" in the UK?) the brake fluid could lodge in the hole & stop the fluid from equalizing, resulting in my symptoms.

I am on my way to the shop to swap-out the rear master cyl., let us hope this will do it. I would like to ride my (VMax) bike today, the weather is beautiful! BTW, the end of the pushrod is centered in the clevis hole, no-one butchered the adjustment.

My mechanic friend who has been helping me suggested that the '87 FZR1000 & the VMax may share the same rear master cyl, but upon inspection, that is not the case for the pressure hose location or the mounting pattern. However, the bore is the same, 1/2", so I am thinking the piston may be the same. If I need to I will swap-out the pistons.
Off to do the work!

Miles Long said:

Fire-medic said:

Took it for a short spin, everything worked ("hel-lo VBoost!") & headed back to the shop, as I pulled in, I felt the rear brake dragging-again. Guess I have to tear -down the rear master cyl., no rebuild kits in-stock & Parts Unlimited is back-ordered until Jan. 20, Tucker Rocky likewise. Hope a thorough cleaning does the trick!

Mr. Medic - Are you certain that you have the brake adjusted correctly, at the master cylinder? The end of the pushrod must be visible in the hole of the clevis. If you have the Clymer manual, this is explained on page 84, figure 55.
This is in the General Maintenance chapter of the book, and is not mentioned in the brake maintenance section at all.
I had rebuilt my rear slave cylinder last winter, thinking that it had been the reason for brake drag. After noticing that the rear rotor was still hot (after only using the front brake), I looked for other causes. Mis-adjustment at the master was the culprit.
I don't want to hijack any further. I can post a photo and the explanation in a new post under the "Brakes" section, if you or anyone else requests this.
Cheers!

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Click to expand...

Fire-medic said:

Hi Miles, just got done tearing-down a spare rear master cyl. & inspecting/cleaning it thoroughly. Not much in the way of crud in there, though the small hole under the reservoir 90 degree fitting would not take much to plug it. Any suspended debris (do the pronounce it "duh-'bris" in the UK?) the brake fluid could lodge in the hole & stop the fluid from equalizing, resulting in my symptoms.

I am on my way to the shop to swap-out the rear master cyl., let us hope this will do it. I would like to ride my (VMax) bike today, the weather is beautiful! BTW, the end of the pushrod is centered in the clevis hole, no-one butchered the adjustment.

Click to expand...

Fire-medic said:

My mechanic friend who has been helping me suggested that the '87 FZR1000 & the VMax may share the same rear master cyl, but upon inspection, that is not the case for the pressure hose location or the mounting pattern. However, the bore is the same, 1/2", so I am thinking the piston may be the same. If I need to I will swap-out the pistons.
Off to do the work!

While you were out test-riding your bike today, I spent my time getting my snowblower ready, for the inevitable. C'est la vie!
Sure sounds like a master cylinder problem, after reading your notation about the pedal loosing it's free play.
Let us know the results of the piston and/or cylinder swap!(but perhaps as a new thread in the brake forum?) This info helps everybody!
p.s. - I have no idea how the Brits pronounce 'debris"- I only speak "Canadian"
Good luck!

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OK, thanks, gonna post in the brakes tech section, merci monsieur si vous etes un Canadian de Quebec ((je sais vous n'etes-pas un citoyen de Quebec, mais New Brunswick, j'avais lise')

Just a quick note on using Silicone grease on the seals in your brakes DONT the silisone is too slippery in that application and will lead to premature failure of the seals and pesky brake fluid leaks.
Best option is to use a specific "rubber grease"if necessary,but a smear of brake fluid should be all that is necessaryfor assembly. Normally the only place you should need to use rubber grease would be on the outer end of the master cylinder where the rubber boot surrounds the shaft from the pedal.

Rear brake drag would normally be caused by pressure retained in the caliper/brake hose as a result of the piston in the master cylinder not releasing all the way and thereby blocking the port. This may only be a matter of a few thousands of an inch but that is all it takes to cause a problem of brake drag.Check and double check that the piston is not being held up by either slight corrosion in the open end of the master cylinder or too tight adjustment of the pedal link or corrosion /sticking of the pedal pivot.

Hope the new year goes well for you

Hi, and thank-you for the note on the brake lubrication. I did post a follow-up in the Tech-brakes section.

I never use 'silly-koan' grease on the caliper o-rings, just brake fluid. The master & caliper is doing fine now! A good cleaning of a replacement used master cyl is the solution, I will disassemble & clean the one I took-off.