Borrow A/F meter???

[RagingMain]

I was hoping someone might have a A/F meter/setup I can borrow to tune my carbs.
The Ex just hit me with a court order to pay some medical stuff for the kids she never told me about and about wiped me out.
I would appreciate it if anyone has one.
Thanks in advance

 

[Birdoprey]

Hey RagingMain,

I have one of these:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php

It also has the RPM converter(scroll down to see it). You are welcome to use it. You can datalog with it as well. Very handy i might add.
The 02 sensor has been in my V-max for awhile w/o the unit hooked up, so it would be a good idea to get a new wideband 02. I was planning on getting one soon, so i will go ahead and do that so you can have a fresh 02 to use with it. I've got the manual and the CD w/ software which can walk you through using it. You can use it the quick and easy way w/o datalogging and simply strap the unit to your faux tank and watch while you drive. Easy as pie.
If your interested, lemme know and i'll go ahead and get a 02 ordered...

 

[Birdoprey]

I got another 02 sensor ordered today. Should have it sometime next week. As soon as i get it, i can sent it all to ya, if you are interested in using it.
BTW, this is a WIDEBAND 02, which is what you'll want to tune with. Those cheap narrowband 02's are not really worth much of anything since they get wildly inaccurate the farther the a/r gets away from Stioch(14.7:1). Tuning for power you'll want to shoot for 13.0-13.2 at wot on the road.

 

[RagingMain]

Dude you rock. Shot you a PM with my address.
This saves me a ton of money and some time as well.
Cheers

 

[Birdoprey]

You'll REALLY like it. If you datalog, all ya gotta do it press one button to start it. Press the same button to stop. It will hold quite a bit of data. BTW, there may be some logs in it. Just read the manual and it'll tell ya how to clear them out. I don't need them.
Hope it helps ya out. unk:

 

[hubeerjw]

Mark, ya beat me to it...

Fargo, I have one as well that I can send out. I'll eventually be using it for setting up the turbo, but it is yours if you need it.

Jeff

 

[RagingMain]

I got another 02 sensor ordered today. Should have it sometime next week. As soon as i get it, i can sent it all to ya, if you are interested in using it.
BTW, this is a WIDEBAND 02, which is what you'll want to tune with. Those cheap narrowband 02's are not really worth much of anything since they get wildly inaccurate the farther the a/r gets away from Stioch(14.7:1). Tuning for power you'll want to shoot for 13.0-13.2 at wot on the road.

Okie dokie will do. If I want to shoot for 13.2 at WOT any idea what I would want to set it at when at idle so I am close to this when I am at WOT??? :ummm:
Plus since I commute a lot is there a better ratio to be at that will still give great performance but with a bit better mileage??? I guess what I am asking is lets say I am at 14 will I actually see any real world mileage benefits over the 13.2?

Jeff thanks for the offer, I do appreciate it but Mark beat you to it.

Thanks guys

 

[hubeerjw]

Okie dokie will do. If I want to shoot for 13.2 at WOT any idea what I would want to set it at when at idle so I am close to this when I am at WOT??? :ummm:

Your pilot jet, A/F screw, main jets, float level etc. all play a part in giving the bike the right amount of fuel through the range of RPMs. I'm sure one of the Marks can explain it much better than I can, and give you specifically what components control the fuel management at specific RPMs, but for example, your main jet will control the A/F ratio from 6k rpm up to redline. It might not be 6k, but lets use that number for now. Certain jets control the A/F ratio at certain RPM ranges, so you should be able to dial it in at almost any rpm. I would make sure your mains are set right and work your way down.
I hope this info is accurate, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Jeff

 

[RagingMain]

Your pilot jet, A/F screw, main jets, float level etc. all play a part in giving the bike the right amount of fuel through the range of RPMs. I'm sure one of the Marks can explain it much better than I can, and give you specifically what components control the fuel management at specific RPMs, but for example, your main jet will control the A/F ratio from 6k rpm up to redline. It might not be 6k, but lets use that number for now. Certain jets control the A/F ratio at certain RPM ranges, so you should be able to dial it in at almost any rpm. I would make sure your mains are set right and work your way down.
I hope this info is accurate, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Jeff

Thanks Jeff. I am pretty much doing what you suggested already. The mains were set when we had it all dialed in Topeka for the Dyno days last year but when I brought her home to Cali she has been running lean even at 4.5-5 turns open on the A/F screws. Wasnt even that much of an altitude change. Somewhere in the neighborhood of only 1500 feet or so. Last time I had it on the dyno here in So Cal she was pulling right at 130/82 and the A/F mix was mid to high 14. Tried pulling the screws out a bit more but things went to shit after that.

So this last couple of weeks I had the time to do a carb job and replaced the pilot jets from 37.5 to 40, mains are 157.5 and float levels are right where Sean put them-16 mm. I am glad I pulled them though because one of the enrinchers had a couple of holes in it and I am hoping this was causing the popping on decel I have been dealing with for quite awhile now.

Thanks again for all the help. Will keep you updated with the results.
Cheers

 

[Birdoprey]

Fargo,
On normal CV carbs, your main jet is responsible for 6000-7000 or so on up. You'll wanna set this first. If you dyno'd yours with an a/f of 14:1, you are a good deal lean. The pilot jets are typically responsible for idle-2500 or 3000. Adjusting the mixture screws only adjusts this circuit, and does not affect the mains. Though the pilot circuit normally affects idle-2500, it DOES have a very small affect on WOT(normally about 10%) since some fuel gets drawn through this circuit. Not really enough to notice. Your needle pretty much takes care of the transition from the pilot circuit to your mains.
With that being said, i'll be honest and state that the above info may not fully apply to the V-max. The stk V-max CV's have other circuits that most CV's do not, and i've not spent the time to find out specifically what does what. I'm sure the above info still applies, but there may be other circuits that affect one if not all of the ones i mentioned. Would need some of the Carb Guru's input on that(Sean, Mark, ?)
I normallhy shoot for 13.5-14ish for idle. Under light load cruising you can go fairly lean(14:1 and sometime higher). I really don't use the wideband much in this range. I'll normally get the needle set by just riding around. I'll go lean til it surges slightly then richen it up til it stops. Usually makes for a nice crisp throttle response. The main thing i use it for is WOT, which is what you wanna set first before you mess much with the others.
Funny thing is that timing can affect your a/f. If you are running the Dyna, you may check this out. Check your a/f on one setting then change the advance curve and recheck. Each bike is different, but i've seen as much as a full point change in A/F with a pretty decent timing change.
Hope this helps some...

 

[Birdoprey]

BTW, 1500 is a pretty signifigant altitude change. Are you 1500 LOWER than you where in Kansas? That would explain you going leaner.
1500 ft would generally make .10-.15 et change(around 2mph) at the dragstrip(1/4mi) given a correct tune for each altitude.

 

[maleko89]

Spot on Mark. It's all main jet once you hit 7000-7500. 6-7 is the transition from needle to main jet and can give some fits. I set mixture screws at idle and then set idle tickover to 2500 rpms to check the higher range of the pilot circuit. I've been told that the mixture screws have an affect up to 5000 rpms but if you tune the needle correctly you shouldn't need to worry about that.

I was looking at that same a/f reader that you showed Mark. Friend has one and he told me he shoots for 12.75-13.25:1 a/f mixture.

Where do you have the O2 sensor mounted? How easy are they to mount? It looks like that basic kit comes with a wide band sensor.

 

[RagingMain]

BTW, 1500 is a pretty signifigant altitude change. Are you 1500 LOWER than you where in Kansas? That would explain you going leaner.
1500 ft would generally make .10-.15 et change(around 2mph) at the dragstrip(1/4mi) given a correct tune for each altitude.

Yes I am 1500 feet lower than in Kansas. I was aware this would make me lean but I didnt think it would make it really lean. Thats why I swapped out the pilot fuel jets and will get it dialed in once I get your A/F meter. I will start out at 13.5 at idle and see where it goes from there.

Once again thanks. Let me know what the shipping is and I will hit your paypal acct.
Cheers

 

[RagingMain]

Spot on Mark. It's all main jet once you hit 7000-7500. 6-7 is the transition from needle to main jet and can give some fits. I set mixture screws at idle and then set idle tickover to 2500 rpms to check the higher range of the pilot circuit. I've been told that the mixture screws have an affect up to 5000 rpms but if you tune the needle correctly you shouldn't need to worry about that.

I was looking at that same a/f reader that you showed Mark. Friend has one and he told me he shoots for 12.75-13.25:1 a/f mixture.

Where do you have the O2 sensor mounted? How easy are they to mount? It looks like that basic kit comes with a wide band sensor.

Yo White Bread
I dont know where Mark has hsi 02 sensor but I put in 4 bungs, one in each header to individually tune each cylinder. I was putting out 130/82 in Topeka when you were helping me, I am hoping with each cylinder dialed in I will break the 135 barrier. Wish me luck.

 

[Birdoprey]

Spot on Mark. It's all main jet once you hit 7000-7500. 6-7 is the transition from needle to main jet and can give some fits. I set mixture screws at idle and then set idle tickover to 2500 rpms to check the higher range of the pilot circuit. I've been told that the mixture screws have an affect up to 5000 rpms but if you tune the needle correctly you shouldn't need to worry about that.

I was looking at that same a/f reader that you showed Mark. Friend has one and he told me he shoots for 12.75-13.25:1 a/f mixture.

Where do you have the O2 sensor mounted? How easy are they to mount? It looks like that basic kit comes with a wide band sensor.

I've not tuned carbs for quite some time, so i was'nt 100% on the transition rpms. I've actually road tuned several and then added the wideband to find i was within 1/2pt which was'nt bad.
On EFI bikes with ram-air, its normal to shoot for 12.8:1, which puts it right at 13:0-13.2:1 on the road. This is generally perfect for the most hp and corresponding mph in the 1/4. I use the 1/4 as a reference since hp shows up in mph and is more "real world" than dyno #'s.
On a bike w/o ram-air, i would prolly shoot for 13:1ish. The good thing is that the tuning will be done on the road with airflow you won't get on a dyno.
I have one of Mark's ss 4-2 systems with the crossover. I had him put the 02 right after each 2-1 collector. He was able to put it so that you can't see the bungs at all and they point right at each other under the bike. It was interesting too since i had a braced swingarm but he was able to modify the crossover to clear it(very SLICK i might add. Looks awesome). I have two bungs and i just move the sensor from one side to the other.
Yep the LM-1 kit comes with everything you need. Including the sensor. It also comes with one 02 bung. You can get extra bungs from Innovate(even ss if you like).
You are welcome to use my LM-1 anytime if you like.

 

[Birdoprey]

Yes I am 1500 feet lower than in Kansas. I was aware this would make me lean but I didnt think it would make it really lean. Thats why I swapped out the pilot fuel jets and will get it dialed in once I get your A/F meter. I will start out at 13.5 at idle and see where it goes from there.

Once again thanks. Let me know what the shipping is and I will hit your paypal acct.
Cheers

Fargo,

Makes sense then. On tuning idle, i'd more shoot for what idles best and gives the best response bliping the throttle. Shooting for a specific # is'nt always the best in areas other than WOT. The WOT is a science, the other areas less so. Drivability and response is whatcha want, and each bike is different in this regard.
I'll keep ya posted!

 

[Birdoprey]

Yo White Bread
I dont know where Mark has hsi 02 sensor but I put in 4 bungs, one in each header to individually tune each cylinder. I was putting out 130/82 in Topeka when you were helping me, I am hoping with each cylinder dialed in I will break the 135 barrier. Wish me luck.

It will be interesting to see if you endup with different jetting for each cyl. Keep us posted! Be sure to reference each cyl when making a change to one cyl. May change the load on the other cyls...may not. Will be interesting to see though...

 

[RagingMain]

It will be interesting to see if you endup with different jetting for each cyl. Keep us posted! Be sure to reference each cyl when making a change to one cyl. May change the load on the other cyls...may not. Will be interesting to see though...

I really hope I dont end up with different jetting with each cylinder, that would suck. I can see different A/F screw settings would be normal. I will keep you updated. Anxious to get the meter =)

 

[Birdoprey]

Fargo,

Just got the sensor in at 1:00pm CST. Getting it boxed with the LM-1 and shipping it out by 2:00pm(you can thank my wife for that!). Going USPS Priority, so you should have it by Monday or Tuesday.
Tried to PM you, but your box is FULL!!!

 

[RagingMain]

Fargo,

Just got the sensor in at 1:00pm CST. Getting it boxed with the LM-1 and shipping it out by 2:00pm(you can thank my wife for that!). Going USPS Priority, so you should have it by Monday or Tuesday.
Tried to PM you, but your box is FULL!!!

Cleaned up the inbox and yes please tell your better half thank you very much. I do appreciate all your help
Cheers