Grinding starter clutch causing metallic shavings in oil??

[nidyanazo]

Just changed my oil again, 3rd time in the last month- I'd been trying out different oils (rotella, mobile 1, and delo400) and have been dealing with a grinding starter clutch on and off... I noticed metallic shavings in the oil drain pan and was thinking it's probably caused by the starter clutch.. But I remember reading on a thread somewhere that the clutch grinding was no big deal, and it's not "messing up" the engine at all.. Just annoying, and eventually needing a fix. So what do you guys suggest? Guess I'll need to track down the correct parts to tighten the starter clutch bolts and replace whatever "goes bad" with it..

As for the metallic shavings, will a grinding starter clutch cause that? Nothing seems wrong with the bike- it's as smooth and powerful as ever! :ummm:

 

[nidyanazo]

To add: The debris are all just dark, no brass- so... Clutch friction pad material maybe? I dont think it's bearings, I used a mechanic stethascope and had a listen, no odd noises coming from anywhere, except the tick/knock sound from the main clutch area.. It's just a slight ticking sound coming from the clutch area at idle, kinda goes away when revved.. I hear this is fairly common- but the clutch does not slip. Only the starter motor clutch does.

 

[nidyanazo]

I just dropped a few different strong magnets in the oil pan to see if by chance and of the debris get picked up... NOPE. Not magnetic... hhhmmmm....

 

[nidyanazo]

Here's a pic of the oil drain pan.. I opened the oil drain plug and let out about 1/2 quart out... This is after a brand new oil change. Less then 20 miles on this oil.. I put a match from a regular pack of matches you'd get from a bar or 7/11 store in for size reference... Whatever is in my oil the specs are TINY. ANy ideas?

 

[alorio1]

I just dropped a few different strong magnets in the oil pan to see if by chance and of the debris get picked up... NOPE. Not magnetic... hhhmmmm....

Clutch material is non magnetic, bolts holding the starter clutch is magnetic and their is a metal jacket around the brass roller cage. I think I would tear it down and replace cage bolts before one falls out.

 

[nidyanazo]

Yeah, I guess that'll be my next step. I wonder why my oil filter isn't picking up this stuff?? Too small??

As long as it's not some internal engine component failing- I have no problem replacing the clutch (even though it's functioning perfectly) and replacing the starter bolts.. If it were a bearing going bad, wouldn't it be magnetic?

Thanks for the advise

 

[one2dmax]

I do have an oil test kit (around $30 I want to say) that will let you send it in for analysis to see what the stuff is.

 

[nidyanazo]

Yeah I'll do the starter clutch bolts fixed and do a couple successive oil changes, and see it the problem is still there.. If it is, I may test the oil then.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I don't think a failing starter clutch "gives up" material by abrasion???

 

[MaxMidnight]

If you have had the generator cover off did you replace the gasket or use a sealer instead.

Have a read of this.

 

[Fire-medic]

I ran into a similar problem on a KZ305 parallel-twin I bought for resale. The ignition cover w/o the correct gasket grounded out the ignition, probably why the prior owner sold the bike.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

If you have had the generator cover off did you replace the gasket or use a sealer instead.

Have a read of this.

+1
That would be the gears shaving or grinding and not the clutch itself, and not using a gasket can misalign the gears (which are pretty narrow, maybe an 1/8") can cause problems here.

If the clutch is fine but the gears are misaligned I doubt it would give the same sound as the dreaded clutch rattle bang noise

 

[nidyanazo]

+1
That would be the gears shaving or grinding and not the clutch itself, but no gasket can cause problems here.

If the clutch is fine but the gears are misaligned I doubt it would give the same sound as the dreaded clutch rattle bang noise

So what exactly is this "dreaded clutch rattle bang noise" you speak of?

 

[Rusty McNeil]

So what exactly is this "dreaded clutch rattle bang noise" you speak of?

I'm pretty sure there a video on here somewhere. Maybe someone can find it.
It's sounds like a coffee can full of bolts going through a wood chipper.

It's caused by cracks in the starter clutch cage allowing those clutch rollers or whatever it's called to bite into the starter gear and crankshaft, break loose or "unbite" and then attempt to bite again, repeat again and again, sometimes intermittently, sometimes every time you hit the start button. It's very loud and there's no missing it.

From the sound you'd think there's going to be a pile of broken metal in the engine but usually it's just a cracked starter clutch housing which is the brass alloy cage behind the flywheel.

Usually once it cracks that's the extent of it breaking since when it "let's go" it eases the pressure on the cage that the rollers exert.

 

[nidyanazo]

Confirmed the damaged starter clutch today. Pulled that sucker off and found cracks, chips, excessive wear, and metal shaved down exposing the copper color under the silver- I'm sure that was what ended up in my oil now.

The 3 bolts holding the clutch on were literally finger tight. Crazy.

Ordered a new starter clutch assembly, with all the little springs, rollers, pucks and bits (everything), along with new bolts and gaskets. Should have it all buttoned up by the weekend when I'll do 2-3 quick oil changes to flush everything out. Hopefully that's the end of this nonsense! I'll for sure red loctite those little bolts in! :eusa_dance:

 

[alorio1]

I would peen the bolts also.........

 

[eggohead]

I did mine last month. Bought the bolts from Fastenal 5 for like 5 buck. I also used Red loctite and Pinged the hell out of them...lol

 

[nidyanazo]

Starts perfectly now, and after 5 oil changes (overboard I know, but the delo400 was only $16 / gal, so why not) I got the annoying particles out of the engine... Now the oil is nice and clean and she fires right up every time. Phew.