Starter clutch going bad?

[RaWarrior]

I had just remembered that this was somehing I was going to look into over the winter. Since I got my Max last summer, on rare occasion, usually when the motor is cold, the starter won't catch, or only catch for a second then let go. Waiting for it to stop then trying again has always worked. It's not the "jar of rocks" noise, it just sounds like the motor free spinning. The bike has about 15k miles, it has an odyssey battery, did the crimp fix, and it never turns slow even when hot. Probably 95% of the time it starts fine, but every so often you just get a "whirr" when you press the starter.

No big deal, but from reading a bit it seems like if I tighten the bolts up now before it gets worse I can save myself hassle and money later.

What's with yamaha and starter clutches? My buddies 660 Raptor had the clutch crap out after like 2 years of sparce use. Are solenoids such a bad thing?

 

[vmaxcruzer]

I had just remembered that this was somehing I was going to look into over the winter. Since I got my Max last summer, on rare occasion, usually when the motor is cold, the starter won't catch, or only catch for a second then let go. Waiting for it to stop then trying again has always worked. It's not the "jar of rocks" noise, it just sounds like the motor free spinning. The bike has about 15k miles, it has an odyssey battery, did the crimp fix, and it never turns slow even when hot. Probably 95% of the time it starts fine, but every so often you just get a "whirr" when you press the starter.

No big deal, but from reading a bit it seems like if I tighten the bolts up now before it gets worse I can save myself hassle and money later.

What's with yamaha and starter clutches? My buddies 660 Raptor had the clutch crap out after like 2 years of sparce use. Are solenoids such a bad thing?

Just went through that. Getting the fly wheel off was memorable. Luckily I caught it before it did any permanent damage and just need the bolts re-tightened. Spend a few hours on it and get it done now before you need a new clutch. They're not cheap.

 

[one2dmax]

It could be a potential problem but I didn't hear it at all when I was there. Not sure I would worry too much about it yet.

Sean

 

[RaWarrior]

So if I understand this right, I shouldn't need any parts to fix this, except probably a new alt cover gasket? Remove the alt cover, yank the flywheel, and tighten the little bolts on the clutch with loc-tite- reassemble.

Depending on the weather, I'll see if I can't get that done sometime next week. Like cruzer said, a little time now to save a hassle and expense later.

 

[one2dmax]

You need a stator cover and a middle gear cover gasket. Then drain the oil since you don't have a center stand or hang the bike leaning over to the other side with straps to the ceiling. You may need to go and get some new bolts from the hardware store and the puller and good hammer (to whack the puller). Then a punch to spike the bolts in place once you replace them (they are that way from the factory too).

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

sean u confusing ryan (RAwarrior) with mike from florida (warriorR6)?

Ryan do u have a CS?

 

[RaWarrior]

Ya, I still have the original center stand.

 

[vmaxcruzer]

If youre tackling this soon, here are a few things that might keep Murphy's law at bay.
I removed my engine (for other reasons) and laid it on its side with the gen cover up so removing the flywheel was easier. I assume you're not so put some blankets or foam down just in case the flywheel POP's off like mine did. If it hits the floor it may get damaged. Mine almost took out my front teeth when it finally came loose. Damn thing jumped almost a foot on the air. If you're renting the puller, get insurance on it. I borrowed one from a buddy at a local bike shop, it was stout and made for pulling motorcycle flywheels but I thought I was gonna snap something at one point, either a bolt or strip out the threads. I used a 600 ftlb gun, a breaker bar, heat, penetrating oil and a whole lot of dead blow hammer. I almost gave up when BANG It jumped. Not trying to discourage you cuz I'm sure that its just me...but know that it may take some cussing. The starter idler gears only go one way so thats no mystery, but there are some small pins and springs inside the clutch housing to watch for. Other good advice I got from buds on here is to be sure to degrease the bolts and threads if your going to use blue locktite otherwise it won't stick to the treads and do its job.
Hopefully you'll just need to tighten them.

 

[RaWarrior]

Thanks for the tips. I saw in the archives here a tip that said to break the flywheel bolt loose, but only unscrew it a couple turns- so it keeps the flywheel from rocketing off the crank. I'll drain the oil into a clean container and then just put it back in again. This bike has always had the Mobil 1 racing 4t oil in it, so I'm continuing to use it. But at $13/quart, I'm not about to throw away $40 worth of oil that only has a few thousand miles on it(it's barely darker than new, still very tan).

Is it just me, or do bikes seem to be gentler to oil than cars? In my trucks, at 5000 miles the oil is pretty black running regular 5-30. 5000 miles on my Magna and the regular 10-40 still looked clean as new. Now with about 3000 on the Max, the oil is barely off-new color with the 10-40 full syn.

What would you suggest for de-greaser? Just simple carb spray?

I'm still not sure I fully understand how this damn thing works/where it is, but I'm sure I can figure it out once I tear into it. I looked at the fiche picture of the clutch....it's the "#11" screws that have likely come loose?

 

[one2dmax]

Doh! My bad! Dang warrior fans anyway!

Yes on the #11 screws. You can generally even feel if they are loose by putting your finger on the end that protrudes through and seeing if you can feel them wiggle.

Sean

 

[RaWarrior]

I had contemplated going for a Warrior when I was looking to upgrade from the Magna, but obviously the Max won out, though that's not where my name came from. I liked the riding position/comfort of the Warrior a little better, but the Max has more power and, most importantly, I could get one for a lot less.

Actually RaWarrior came from online computer games, been using it for years. I think I originally wanted to use "RyWarrior" from my name(back when I played SOCOM on playstation), but I seem to remember typing it in wrong and submitting it just as I realized my mistake. So I just stuck with it and now I use it for everything online.

 

[tothemax93]

I'm about to do do the starter clutch thing also, and I have a few questions. Is there any problems using heat to get the flywheel off? Is it true that turning the motor over slowly with a run down battery can hurt the starter clutch? I don't mean to hijack but it seems on topic for this thread. Thanks,
Tim

 

[one2dmax]

Yes, a low battery causes extra strain on the clutch if the engine isn't turning over at a faster rate. Usually no heat is needed but some have done that. I think i've only ever had one that we added heat too.

Sean

 

[tothemax93]

I just ordered the parts for the starter clutch fix. I ordered the starter clutch outer assembly, the gear behind it, the bolts, both gaskets,and new o-rings. The total was $195.00 shipping included. My bike has 33,000 on it, so I figured for $195 bucks,even if I just have loose bolts, Its worth changing the parts. It will be like brand new.unk:

 

[kaboom]

So.......how slow of a turn over is too slow??:ummm:


I just went out and started mine and let it run for half an hour.......

It turned over slower than in the summer but it did not come anywhere near stalling out the starter motor.....

I'm guessing stalling out the starter motor is bad but as long as it turns over freely all is well.......but you have me wondering now:confused2:

 

[one2dmax]

Hard to describe but the engine should not sound like it's laboring to turn over.

Sean

 

[vmaxcruzer]

"break the flywheel bolt loose, but only unscrew it a couple turns- so it keeps the flywheel from rocketing off the crank"

Yes, good advice! I could'nt use this tip as the puller I used had a cone center and would have put all the pulling power on the tiny oil hole on the bolt end so I removed the bolt and used a small round adapter over the end of the crank that came with the puller. Then I donned my face mask:biglaugh:


Also, I wonder if the two brush vs the four brush starter makes a difference in the abuse on the clutch.

 

[RaWarrior]

Ya, I suppose putting all that pressure on a little oil hole isn't such a great idea. Guess it's better to just lay out some cushions, stand to the side, and whack it with a hammer till it pops.

After doing the "crimp fix", I noticed the engine cranked noticeably quicker due to nearly a full extra volt in the battery. I have a '97 so that came with the 4 brush starter, but it always seems to crank just fine...never labors or has to "wind up" to speed.

 

[one2dmax]

yea, the newer starters work very well as long as the battery is in good shape.

Sean

 

[4gasem]

Ya, I suppose putting all that pressure on a little oil hole isn't such a great idea. Guess it's better to just lay out some cushions, stand to the side, and whack it with a hammer till it pops.

After doing the "crimp fix", I noticed the engine cranked noticeably quicker due to nearly a full extra volt in the battery. I have a '97 so that came with the 4 brush starter, but it always seems to crank just fine...never labors or has to "wind up" to speed.

I did the crimp fix on mine with only maybe 1100 miles on it. It didn't "fix" anything but the crimp was... well... Like new... lol

Good insurance IMO.

Chris