COP update

[Vinmax]

Hey G,
Yeah, when you do the math, you can see that small differences in resistance make large differences in total current draw.

When I get my new TCI, I'm going to perform some amperage checks and see if I need to find a set of COP's with a higher resistance.

As for the Dyna, I received a reply from them today. They basically told me that they are not going to research making a Dyna 3000 for use with the COP's. They also said that they don't/can't repair the unit. But, they will take it back and replace it with a working unit for $129.00 So, I guess I may go that route and then sell the thing and stick with the stock TCI.

Vinnie

 

[naughtyG]

Nice enough of them to replace it at a lower cost, although it's just another sale and they obviously still make money on it.

It would be really interesting to attempt to open up the broken one - if you're just gonna trash it please send it to me and I'll have a go. It would be pretty funny if it was just a fuse or cheap replaceable component inside it that burnt, wouldn't it?

 

[RagingMain]

We already talked about putting another resistor inline with the COP to decrease amperage but found out it would drop voltage too much. Anyone figure out a way to get around the lower resistance of the COP and keep our current low enough to not fry our TCI???:ummm::confused2:

Calling all electronic/electrical engineers

 

[naughtyG]

If my measurements are anything to go by, the only ignition that will fry is the Dyna3000.

That's because the stock item is protected by a 10 amp fuse, so it's obviously designed to take up to 10amps, and in my measurements the highest reading I saw was just over 6 amps. :eusa_dance:

I think so far none of the COP-running (forget the pun) members have managed to fry an OEM CDI unit - only one Dyna3000 went tits up. :confused2:

 

[ssnsltd]

If my measurements are anything to go by, the only ignition that will fry is the Dyna3000.

That's because the stock item is protected by a 10 amp fuse, so it's obviously designed to take up to 10amps, and in my measurements the highest reading I saw was just over 6 amps. :eusa_dance:

I think so far none of the COP-running (forget the pun) members have managed to fry an OEM CDI unit - only one Dyna3000 went tits up. :confused2:

maybe I am a bit hyper sensitive today about bike mods. I spent the day working on my step brothers (2) Ducati and Suzuki MC's. We replaced a $46 factory break light switch (Duke) with a $3.00 Radio Shack switch and on the Suzuki we put on a "streetfighter" faring and moto-x handlebar mod. They were both told these could not possibly fit or work.


I am with G on this, mostly-, BUT and I do mean BUT, we don't know the d3k will fry based on the mod :
-not trying to start a fire fight, disrespect the crap V had to go through, debate anything other than what we can PROVE based on the facts given, cause God knows I am not a money factory nor wanting to start a feeding frenzy. I am concerned and interested- but not willing to think the D3K is automatic toast based on this mod. I have both Dyna 3k and COP mod installed in my bike. I can swap back to either/both if I need to.
-

BUT: what we KNOW:
V has a V-max with Dyna 3k AND has just put in a COP mod with low (<stock) resistance coils.

so did I. We both blew a fuse- under similar conditions.

I replaced my fuse with a 10a breaker. I have hit v-boost, and >100mph several times since, no issues. And no tickets, can not speak for V

V replaced his 10a fuse with a 15a fuse and did same BUT: is now facing several issues as he posted.

V's
ignition MAY have fried. It damn sure sounds like it to me but- We KNOW his bike runs like crap. I don't however, know of anyone who posted the CDI (TCI) died and got the bike to run after said CD "died" at all. Not like I couldn't have missed something. I am old and slow, this is NOT hard to prooof. . And of course the Dyna 3k may have a "limp home" mode.

it MAY have happened based on the COP update. it MAY have happened based on Sun spot activity or global warming. it MAY have happened because the Dyna 3k (yes I bought one) just sucks.

What we know is:
-a Dyna 3k died, maybe.
-this is not the first one.
-The CDI frying has not happened to anyone else with the COP mod.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO- reminder to all:l I am not trying to say or start or provoke anything other than

we know what? cause I S.A.S. do not want to walk home based on a flaw with the COP mod. But- I am damn sure not willing to hide in a closet because of the "bogey man is out there" either.

Christ I think this falls under Rant. . . . . .

 

[hubeerjw]

On my drag bike engine (that I just got running) has the Dyna and the COPs. I started the bike about 3 times... it sputtered a few times and died, then it ran for about 4 or 5 seconds. I shut it of and was jumping for joy. I tried to start it again about 5 minutes later and nothing.... I blew the 10 amp fuse as well. I replaced it, fired it back up and let ir run for another 5 to 10 seconds and shut it down. So far, so good. Anyway, I thought it was interesting that the fuse didn't seem to blow until after I turned it off (or maybe it happened at the exact same time.. who knows) Since my wiring harness is completely destroyed at the moment, if anyone has any ideas as to fixes, we can use my harness as a tester. I was thinking about putting some in-line fuses in before each COP and see if there is a single COP that is responsible or even to see how low of a fuse I can go before blowing them. Let me know if you want me to try something.

Jeff

 

[naughtyG]

Jeff, can you try the amp test? Remove the ignition fuse, and connect an amp meter set to 10A or up across where the fuse would go. Then run the motor and record the readings. I'd be interested to see if it correlates with my readings?

 

[RagingMain]

I did this last night and i was pulling anywhere between 4-6.5 amps, highest reving while in nuetral was 6k

 

[Noxx72]

I did this last night and i was pulling anywhere between 4-6.5 amps, highest reving while in nuetral was 6k

You sure you weren't measuring that to ground? *snort*

 

[maleko89]

You sure you weren't measuring that to ground? *snort*

LoL. Yeah Fargo, I have an old R/R for you to test.

 

[RagingMain]

Ha Ha
I was actually measuring it on your bike right after I stole your bracket.

:icon_axe:

Cheers

 

[RagingMain]

Where would one find the OEM coil spark output and the COP spark output. I need to compare the two:ummm::confused2:

Cheers

 

[Vinmax]

Hey Guys,
I saw a few posts back that David wrote a couple of points about what we're seeing with the COP mod. He thought my bike ran like crap after my issues with the Dyna and the COP mod. I just want to clear something up,,,, My bike actually does not run at all now. It did start running like crap for only about 30 seconds total after running great for my ride till that point. After the 30 seconds of running like crap and backfiring through the exhaust, it totally quit. There was no 'limp home' mode for me. I had the bike flat-bedded home that night.

The Dyna was pulling some serious (up to over 10 amps) current before my ride that day and that was only when I was revving it in the garage. In all my short-sightedness, and totally disregarding my electronic education and experience, I replaced the 10 amp fuse with the spare 15 amp fuse so I wouldn't get dangerously shut down in traffic if the amperage went over 10 amps momentarily....:worthy: NO, I would never do that again. I should've cruised around town with an amp meter hooked up and mounted to my tank for testing. But I went the easy route (bigger fuse) and fried the Dyna. I think the 15 amp fuse 'forced' the Dyna to keep running with too high of a current load and overworked a component inside. Maybe a resistor or diode inside the Dyna is not rated for the current I forced it to pull.

I'm looking at it this way now,,,,,, I want the COP mod to stay. If I did it properly, I would have seen that I was not able to run with such high current with the Dyna and would have gone back to the stock TCI anyway. So I'll probably send the Dyna in for the $129.00 swap, then sell it. I'll then go back to the stock TCI and monitor things much more closely until reliability is proven.

I still want to hear from other guys that do the amperage checks with the COP mod and with stock coils. I'm not going to ask anyone with a Dyna 3000 to test anything, as it may be risky and I don't want anyone to have the trouble I had. But it would be interesting to have more data on amperage readings from other owners with and without the COP mod. The more testing we have, the better conclusions we can draw from this.

Vinnie

 

[Vinmax]

Hey Guys,
I was doing a lot of thinking on this subject of limiting the current of the COP setup to prevent blowing the TCI. What I'm thinking about now is a 'current limiting circuit.' What that would do is limit the current to say, 8 amps right at the fuse. If the current tries to go higher than that, then the voltage drops to prevent the excess current flow. No blown fuses and you get to run the COP's with the full 12v until the ciruit tries to pull too much current. All that happens is, just the TCI shutting down slightly by getting lower voltage.

Check this link for an example:
http://freecircuitdiagram.com/2008/08/27/variable-adjustable-current-limiter-circuit/

Vinnie

 

[RagingMain]

So basically it senses the current and if it goes above a certain set point it dumps some voltage to ground thereby limiting the amount of current the circuit will see??? Pretty cool.

How big is this thing and where would we put it to keep it cool??? It is going to disapate a lot of heat. Oh yeah and how much is it and would it be rated for all the vibration the bike see and elements, would need to be weather proof.

If it is expensive it would off set one of the big advantages of the COP which is price. We would still have all the other advantages though.

 

[Vinmax]

I'm still doing some research on it. But I think it's something I'd have to build with common electrical components. I don't think vibration would be an issue. There are only a few electrical components and as long as it was soldered good and taped up for weather resistance, there should be no issues.

Vinnie

 

[Vmaxattacks]

So.....can I do this mod with a STOCK TDI without any reservation?? I am reading about the associated maladies with the Dyna 3K and this mod and I still don't get that "warm fuzzy" feeling. I don't want to be 200mi away and have the brain box take a giant shit and leave me stranded.

Those 10A fuses you guys are blowing, is that with the Dyna 3K or the stock setup? With R-1 coils or another?
Thanx,
Bud

 

[naughtyG]

The only one I know of so far who's had a problem was Vinnie. He was running a Dyna3000.

AFAIK, all the others who've been running COPs since Birdoprey introduced the mod have not had a single problem.

I've been running GSXR600 COPs on my '86 for about 2000 miles now - no problem yet.

 

[Vmaxattacks]

Still worth a try anyway....I'll just get a spare TDI for "just in case". I have always been more logical than over-zealous. I need contingency plans, Goddamnit!

 

[naughtyG]

I tried this - still looking for a decently-priced one on fleabay...

But now with every COP user on the lookout, they've become like gold dust!

Remember there are two types - pre '93 and post '93 - and they are not compatible.