Are you a new member? Come here and say hi!

[vwaxxed]

Hi, everyone! I just purchased my first vmax a little over a week ago. It's an 86. Has a 4 to 1 header and a manual vboost lever that it setup on a choke cable. The bike runs well. In the week that ive owned it I have had the seat repaired, put drag bars on it, and swapped the backrest for a grab rail. Ever since I was a kid I have wanted one of these bikes and I finally had the chance to get one. I plan on swapping the stock wheels for some 17s whenever I get the money for it. I wish they werent so expensive haha. Also want a shorter rear fender and a different seat eventually. I'd like to squeeze a little more power out of it as well. Lucky for me, after doing a little research I found out I live just 20 minutes away from Sean Morley of Morley's Muscle. I have a feeling he will be seeing a lot of me. I'm glad to be a part of this forum! Here are a few pictures from the day I got it and today.

[/URL][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG]

 

[blaxmax]

Welcome vwaxxed---is that a two brothers exhaust?

 

[vwaxxed]

Welcome vwaxxed---is that a two brothers exhaust?

Yes, it is!

 

[Orion1130]

Hello All!

I have wanted to own a Max since I have been riding. I bought my first max about 5 months ago at auction in New York. I live in Colorado Springs. I have been a long time lurker while I have been working through getting my vmax good to go. I have unresolved issues that I cant figure out, so as many have done before me, I am coming here to hopefully resolve them.

Like I said, I bought this bike at auction. From what I can tell and have found out, it has a 17" rear, morleys muscle kit w/ modified airbox w/ K&N filter, full exhaust (not sure what it is, definitely a full system), dyna 3000 ignition (non-dipswitch), denso COPS, and a few aftermarket body mods.

It has been a challenge to get running well, especially at this altitude.

The biggest issue as of now is it wont rev over 3k rpm, it bogs, backfires through the carbs and exhaust, I have done the shotgun cleaning and completely taken apart and cleaned the carbs and then synced them, still the issue persists. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!:biglaugh:

 

[blaxmax]

Hello All!

I have wanted to own a Max since I have been riding. I bought my first max about 5 months ago at auction in New York. I live in Colorado Springs. I have been a long time lurker while I have been working through getting my vmax good to go. I have unresolved issues that I cant figure out, so as many have done before me, I am coming here to hopefully resolve them.

Like I said, I bought this bike at auction. From what I can tell and have found out, it has a 17" rear, morleys muscle kit w/ modified airbox w/ K&N filter, full exhaust (not sure what it is, definitely a full system), dyna 3000 ignition (non-dipswitch), denso COPS, and a few aftermarket body mods.

It has been a challenge to get running well, especially at this altitude.

The biggest issue as of now is it wont rev over 3k rpm, it bogs, backfires through the carbs and exhaust, I have done the shotgun cleaning and completely taken apart and cleaned the carbs and then synced them, still the issue persists. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!:biglaugh:

Welcome Orion, My first question would be is there any resistors built into your harnesses on your cops? You need them with the Dynatek 3000. Also what are the numbers if any on top of the cops-ie denso 129700-???? I'm guessing 4400.
I do build harnesses with resistors so contact me if you need them.

 

[blaxmax]

Did you see what size jets were in the carbs? At that altitude it is like jetting for Bandimere.

 

[Orion1130]

Thanks for a quick reply! There are resistors wired in, the denso numbers are 129700-4800 J0480. Would you think it could be an ignition problem? How reliable are the Dynas?

As for the jets, I recorded the numbers but forgot to label them for which jets in my notes (brilliant). With the bike being from the east coast, I can almost guarantee they are nowhere near where the should be for this altitude. Jetting would be pretty close to Bandimeres strip, at least close enough to get me into the ball park.

 

[blaxmax]

Thanks for a quick reply! There are resistors wired in, the denso numbers are 129700-4800 J0480. Would you think it could be an ignition problem? How reliable are the Dynas?

As for the jets, I recorded the numbers but forgot to label them for which jets in my notes (brilliant). With the bike being from the east coast, I can almost guarantee they are nowhere near where the should be for this altitude. Jetting would be pretty close to Bandimeres strip, at least close enough to get me into the ball park.

I only had the dynatek ignition for the early gsxr 1100's and never for the Vmax.
You could measure the resistance of each coil and then each coil through the harness at the connector end to see if a coil or a resistor in the harness has gone bad. If you have the numbers of the jets just post them and we will know which goes where. Also the ohms for the coils and harnesses. At that altitude I would think 145 mains would be best. Also what are your a/f mixtures screws set at?

 

[Traumahawk]

Thanks for a quick reply! There are resistors wired in, the denso numbers are 129700-4800 J0480. Would you think it could be an ignition problem? How reliable are the Dynas?

As for the jets, I recorded the numbers but forgot to label them for which jets in my notes (brilliant). With the bike being from the east coast, I can almost guarantee they are nowhere near where the should be for this altitude. Jetting would be pretty close to Bandimeres strip, at least close enough to get me into the ball park.

The dynas are very reliable. If it was an ignition problem it would be all the time, and not just 3000 on up.

 

[Orion1130]

The dynas are very reliable. If it was an ignition problem it would be all the time, and not just 3000 on up.

I will try to get the resistance info and jet sizes tomorrow.

To fill in some other info; after some fun troubleshooting and looking at larger issues, I discovered that the PO had the plugs for the rear cylinders hooked up backwards so it was only running on two cylinders. I switched them around and the bike seemed to be running MUCH better that it was (obviously), however I rode it about 5 miles, parked it (it rained) and when I went to start it a few hours later it was hard to start and the not revving over 3k problem started seemingly out of the blue:confused2:.

I was excited because after i switched those, it was the first time it seemed like it was running close to how it should, aside from some bog in the top end around 6k.

Any ideas on why it would have just started out of the blue?

 

[Orion1130]

Also any ideas on what exhaust I have? Pictures in my album, I cant find any markings.

 

[blaxmax]

I will try to get the resistance info and jet sizes tomorrow.

To fill in some other info; after some fun troubleshooting and looking at larger issues, I discovered that the PO had the plugs for the rear cylinders hooked up backwards so it was only running on two cylinders. I switched them around and the bike seemed to be running MUCH better that it was (obviously), however I rode it about 5 miles, parked it (it rained) and when I went to start it a few hours later it was hard to start and the not revving over 3k problem started seemingly out of the blue:confused2:.

I was excited because after i switched those, it was the first time it seemed like it was running close to how it should, aside from some bog in the top end around 6k.

Any ideas on why it would have just started out of the blue?

When you say rear are you referring to the coils by the battery or the radiator. The coil wires nearest the radiator actually cross over to the opposite cylinders.
Also they are prone to crack and when water gets in it makes it hard to start. You might want to read this thread I posted below and also check out the forum jump down at the bottom of the page so when you ask a particular question more guys will see it and respond.

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=40699

 

[Traumahawk]

however I rode it about 5 miles, parked it (it rained) and when I went to start it a few hours later it was hard to start and the not revving over 3k problem started seemingly out of the blue:confused2:.

I was excited because after i switched those, it was the first time it seemed like it was running close to how it should, aside from some bog in the top end around 6k.

Any ideas on why it would have just started out of the blue?

Well with it having rained, I guess that it IS an electrical issue. So is it still doing it (and how long after the rain)?

Obviously something got wet, and some corrosion might have built up. So I will take everything apart in regards to the electrical system, and clean, and dielectric grease the connections.

Here are some good threads on COPS. Bird o Prey is really the one that started the COPS mod here on this forum.

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5766

Naughty G had some great threads on the ins and the outs of the install.

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5865

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5868

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5869

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5870

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5871

The reason why resistors are necessary with the Dynatek ignitions is that the stock coils have a resistance around 3 ohms, and that's what Dynatek set their ignition systems up for. COPS (Coil over plugs) have significantly less resistance. 1.2-1.6 on average depending on which coil sticks you use, hence that's why resistors are added, the bring the over all resistance closer to 3.0.

Occams razor- Everything else being equal, the simplest solution is usually the best solution. So, in problem solving start simple and work your way to the more in-depth.

And welcome to the forum.

 

[blaxmax]

I will try to get the resistance info and jet sizes tomorrow.

To fill in some other info; after some fun troubleshooting and looking at larger issues, I discovered that the PO had the plugs for the rear cylinders hooked up backwards so it was only running on two cylinders. I switched them around and the bike seemed to be running MUCH better that it was (obviously), however I rode it about 5 miles, parked it (it rained) and when I went to start it a few hours later it was hard to start and the not revving over 3k problem started seemingly out of the blue:confused2:.

I was excited because after i switched those, it was the first time it seemed like it was running close to how it should, aside from some bog in the top end around 6k.

Any ideas on why it would have just started out of the blue?

With a multimeter set to 200 ohms your stock coils will show 4.2 ohms
Your denso 4800 will show 2.6-2.7
With your cop hooked up to the harness and reading from the end of the coupling connector with a resistor inline it should read 4.2 ohms-the exact same as your stock coil.

 

[Traumahawk]

With a multimeter set to 200 ohms your stock coils will show 4.2 ohms
Your denso 4800 will show 2.6-2.7
With your cop hooked up to the harness and reading from the end of the coupling connector with a resistor inline it should read 4.2 ohms-the exact same as your stock coil.

On page 7.3 of the stock factory manual ignition coils are 2.75 + or minus 10%. Below is a snippet.

Mark has it at 3-3.5 ohms.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showpost.php?p=160723&postcount=2

This is whats been posted here, and other paces (including V4 musclebike) about the resistance of various coil sticks.

Here is a list of the COPs that will work on our Bike:
Denso JO440 (129700-4400) 1.5 Ohms
Suzuki Part number 33410-35F10/35F00 (Denso p/n 129700-4400, COIL ASSY,IGNIT),
fits the following models:
Suzuki GSXR: 1000 (01-07), 750 (01-05), 600 (01-03)
Suzuki GSX-R600 2001 (K1)
Suzuki GSX-R600 2002 (K2)
Suzuki GSX-R600 2003 (K3)
Suzuki GSX-R600Z 2003 (K3)
Suzuki GSX-R750 2001 (K1)
Suzuki GSX-R750 2002 (K2)
Suzuki GSX-R750 2003 (K3)
Suzuki GSX-R750 2004 (K4)
Suzuki GSX-R750 2005 (K5)
Suzuki GSX-R750 2000 (Y)
Suzuki GSX-R1000 2001 (K1)
Suzuki GSX-R1000 2002 (K2)
Suzuki GSX-R1000 2003 (K3)
Suzuki GSX-R1000 2004 (K4)
Suzuki GSX-R1000Z 2004 (K4)

Suzuki GSXR: 1000 (01-07), 750 (01-05), 600 (01-03)
oem p/n 33410-35F10/35F00 (Denso p/n 129700-4400/4150)
4400/1.5 ohms, 4150/1.3 ohms
new aprox. $69

Kawasaki: ZX10/14 (04-07) oem p/n 21171-0005/1.5 ohms
ZX9 (99-03) + ZX12 (03-05) oem p/n 21171-1265/1286 (denso p/n 129700-3630)
Z1000 (03-07) + Z750 (05-06) 21171-1286
Z1000 denso p/n 129700-4580/1.5 ohms
ZX6 oem p/n 21171-1282/mitsubishi#F6T560
ZX9 denso p/n 129700-3630/1.3 ohms
ZX10 mitsubishi#F6T549/560
ZG14/08(Concours) # F6T560

Honda CBR600RR Ignition Coils 03-11
Denso 129700-4510 (1.4 Ohm)

129700-4800 1.6 Ohms (Longer 5-1/2" Coil, are a tight fit but will work)
06 07 Suzuki GSXR 600 750



Note:With the lower resistance coils (less than 1.5 Ohm) it may be necessary to add load resistors to get close to the stock 3 ohm resistance.
1.5 ohm (or whatever resistance is need to get you to 3.0 ohms total) 25 watt resistors like these should work well:
http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/13600-13.HTM
(1st column, 4th row.. 1.5 ohm 25 watt wirewound, 5 pack)
As long as they're ~1.5 ohm wirewound and between 20W and 30W they should work.

Note:Gapping on the Stock NGK Spark Plugs when using these COPs should be .026, instead of the .032-.035 used with the stock Coils.

PS
Most guys that used the Mitsubishi coils have said that they fail more often than the Denso coils.


The 4800's are listed at 1.6 Ohms.

 

[blaxmax]

"With a multimeter set to 200 ohms your stock coils will show 4.2 ohms"

Stock coils-4.2 ohms
4800-2.7 ohms

 

[Traumahawk]

"With a multimeter set to 200 ohms your stock coils will show 4.2 ohms"

Stock coils-4.2 ohms
4800-2.7 ohms

Just to double check, I looked at another service manual. 2.43-2.97 Ohms. Were your coils good?

 

[blaxmax]

Just to double check, I looked at another service manual. 2.43-2.97 Ohms. Were your coils good?

Both oem and denso have less than 9,000 miles-Not sure you are getting the setting of the multimeter at 200 ohms.

 

[Traumahawk]

This is whats been posted before about dynateks and COPS.

Hello Tim.
The factory resistor caps are required in order to reduce/eliminate RFI noise
which can adversely effect the digital functions of the Dyna 3000.
When doing this type of coil conversion, and using 4 individual coils, be sure
they each have a primary ohm reading of 3.0 ohms for the best possible
performance.
Thank you,
Larry Nelson
Technical Support
Dynatek
1-800-928-DYNA (3962)
http://www.dynaonline.com

 

[Orion1130]

Well with it having rained, I guess that it IS an electrical issue. So is it still doing it (and how long after the rain)?

Obviously something got wet, and some corrosion might have built up. So I will take everything apart in regards to the electrical system, and clean, and dielectric grease the connections.

Here are some good threads on COPS. Bird o Prey is really the one that started the COPS mod here on this forum.

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5766

Naughty G had some great threads on the ins and the outs of the install.

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5865

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5868

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5869

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5870

http://vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5871

The reason why resistors are necessary with the Dynatek ignitions is that the stock coils have a resistance around 3 ohms, and that's what Dynatek set their ignition systems up for. COPS (Coil over plugs) have significantly less resistance. 1.2-1.6 on average depending on which coil sticks you use, hence that's why resistors are added, the bring the over all resistance closer to 3.0.

Occams razor- Everything else being equal, the simplest solution is usually the best solution. So, in problem solving start simple and work your way to the more in-depth.

And welcome to the forum.

It is still doing it, 5 days later. Everything has been dried and I will work on checking for corrosion and anything else suspicious in the electrical system.

Thanks, I appreciate all of the willingness to help! I would love to get this sucker running correctly.