flooded car possible, need help!

[caseyjones955]

The lines go into the rack body but fluid leaks from behind that boot would be a rack seal. There should be no lines that can leak there. Im not sure what the prospect for seal replacement would be as it is customary in my experience to replace the racks when they wear out, which is often before the car wears out. Maybe someone else can comment on rack seal replacement.

 

[radley]

The lines go into the rack body but fluid leaks from behind that boot would be a rack seal. There should be no lines that can leak there. Im not sure what the prospect for seal replacement would be as it is customary in my experience to replace the racks when they wear out, which is often before the car wears out. Maybe someone else can comment on rack seal replacement.

Well at least I feel better now that I know where the leak is coming from (well, at least ONE leak...) kinda hard to tell and really look up in there to see if the lines are leaking in that area, but both lines go toward steering column, and I cant find another leak spot, so at least for now, this has to be it.

I will purchase an entire rack like you said. 100 bucks, lifetime warranty. should just order it today.

 

[caseyjones955]

That seems like a good price. Im not sure how involved imstall is on that vehicle but make sure you budget for an alignment.

Just for fun you could slide some clean cardboard under the engine bay, fire it up and crank the wheels back and forth a few times and see what kind of puddle you get under that area, or any other areas.

 

[radley]

That seems like a good price. Im not sure how involved imstall is on that vehicle but make sure you budget for an alignment.

Just for fun you could slide some clean cardboard under the engine bay, fire it up and crank the wheels back and forth a few times and see what kind of puddle you get under that area, or any other areas.

yea i did that a few wks ago and couldn't get t he thing to start leaking....to locate leak. the car was up on jack stands though and i think the pressure of being on ground might help that pressure rise so that might be why....

install, we'll see. checked out some vids on youtube, many standard procedures, but for 2003 malibu, we'll see what hiccups i come across. alignment, yes you are right.
there are some tips to get it "close" to how it is now when reinstall, but yeah, i'll probably have to get that done afterwards. prolly going to order the part and head up home and work on it with my father so there's someone there in case the car drops on me...

 

[radley]

Put the new power steering rack in yesterday with my father.
Took us 13 hours total. It was effing hell. The whole thing was hell, from breaking rusted bolts, having to purchase the tie rod ends cuz one of them, couldn't grip it to twist the nut off, got all rounded so went and cut it off. had to buy 2 new ones, 30 bucks a piece. broke the sway bar bolt holding it on the passenger side, 8 bucks a piece for those assemblies. broke the mounting bolt for the rack already had an effing impossible time getting ACCESS to that crap, damn sway bar in the way constantly, on my back, head up working on this crap, arms working in front of my face like T-Rex, oh and the little window to work on the high pressure and low pressure ends into the column...yeah.. not easy, and got the HP one, woofta, but the low pressure, wrenches not long enough, didnt want to risk rounding the damn thing, ended up cutting the line in half right in front of me, also cut one of the lines that comes with the rack, just so we could get it out of there.. F*CK! Bought a barb to fix the low pressure line after got new one in there.. fought that for an hour.. unscrewed one of the rack line ends to get through the bracket in the middle of the car.. F*CK! it was hell guys... absolute hell. Then, put the column back on the pinion, well we lined it up wrong so i gotta loosen that set screw and get the wheel straight with the wheels... going straight, the wheel is pointed more toward 10 or 11....versus 12...

Drove it 70miles back, took it relatively easy. other than the wheel being mounted wrong, lol,, hey, it was a long f*cking day, seemed to ride decent.
Still gotta repalce the hubs, rotors, pads..didnt get to that yesterday but I have them. I'll make sure not leaking but so far so good.

So, what's next? Sounds like I gotta get it in for an alignment, right? Also fix that wheel position..... probably got to fix the wheel position first, then get it aligned... so... all in all, 100 bucks for part, 13 hours labor, 120 bucks in addt'l parts and tools (picked up crows foot wrench heads metric set, recommended by youtube video, also a longer 18mm wrench). and need to get aligned, plus the 13 hours labor, and other time spent researching, also fluid costs too.. effing effing HELL!!!!!

 

[Fire-medic]

Well giving it to a shop would cost probably a thousand bucks, plus. Here in South FL a shop rate at a reputable place, not a dealer, is a bargain at < $100/hr. Dealerships are higher. Old rusty northern cars are a nightmare to work-on. Here in the Deep South, we don't have the rust issues, unless you live next to the ocean, or it's a northern car where the owner moved south.

Sounds promising, though, I hope this clears up that issue.

 

[The Beekeeper]

I feel your pain brother, spent half my weekend replacing all 6 u-joints in a 38 year old corvette.................PITA!!!!!...........:damn angry:............Tom.

 

[radley]

So there's a lot of play in the wheel.... like turning left to right over the "center", there's a bit of dead space so the car wont turn in that "space" if you will. now, might be worth noting.. there's 2 rack bolts holding it to the frame.. one on pass side, one toward drivers side. pass side one has a nut on the end, that you can tighten. i THINK we tightened that, but we may have left it loose to try to fit the driver side bolt in... the driver side bolt goes in from the rear side, and screws into a threaded receiving end, b/c you can't access the back side at all... we screwed around wtih that but I never got the bolt to fit into the threaded receiving "nut" we'll call it... it's part of the frame... the bolt wouldn't line up no matter how much i tried to get it in there.. couldn't really tell either what direction i had to go,, and the access to even dink around with it was impossible.. that sway bar is constantly in the way and you can't remove the sway bar either or pull it out from either side,, it's curved on both ends so we had to work around it... we left the bolt in there even though it wasn't threaded into the receiving end towards the front of the car.... the bolt isn't poppin out of there cuz the sway bar is in the way but it's not super tight either.. the bolt is through the rear mounting tab and into the rack , but i know it's not tightened down.. couldn't get it.

Father says he thought we tightened the passenger side one though, which I think we did... so assume that's true. but the play in the wheel is scaring me.....a bit... thoughts?

 

[radley]

I gotta get that alignment done, but I think today I'll first take the wheel off and check out how we mounted that pinion area and make sure it's set in there completely....possible that things aren't placed in all the way so however the knuckle? is moving, etc. it's allowing a lot of play in the wheel...

I'll have to do that after work and see where I get with it.. hopefully I can jsut fix it and then get alignment done, then think about tackling the next problem...much bigger project...

 

[caseyjones955]

Wheel bearings come to mine if there is play in the wheel but all the tie rod ends are tight. With the mileage it is within the realm of likelihood as a normal wear item, luckily it's less painful than a rack.

 

[radley]

from tuggin on that damn rack, i see that i cut open the new boot on driver side already.. oops.. also i have new wheel hubs/bearing assemblies. gonna puton new ones, also need a new lug nut cuz i cross threaded one of them, but with new hubs, thats ok. just gotta pick up one lugnut.

i dont have a 35mm for the axle nut... also i need to go borrow a hub puller from oreillys or something right? i am gonna call and see if they have one to borrow/temporarily rent, ya know...

also i have new rotors and pads to put on there.. might try to sell this thing once i get the alignment done too...neighbor down street has a grand am or prix 2002 that has 120K on it only... advice ideas on all of above?

 

[caseyjones955]

I think Pep Boys or Auto Zone have pullers you can rent or borrow on the cheap to get the hubs done. The lug nuts are usually hanging on a hook in a bubble pack on the cheap to.

As for selling it, if it were me I would just drive it until the the next major problem crops up. You already put the money into it to make it road worthy, might as well get the use out of it now. It's market value is probably lower than the value of the use you should get out of it with all the work done.

Once it dies you can grab a decent low mileage Accord or Camry which would all but guarantee 300k+ mi trouble free service with routine maintenance. Buying a Gran Prix (another GM) is a lateral move at best, sort of like changing seats on the Titanic. Honda and Toyota cost more up front but you save because they last considerably longer and have significantly less unscheduled maintenance. So aside from the pleasure of driving a well designed vehicle you save money over the life of the car. I'm a cheap bastard so stuff like this matters to me haha.

 

[radley]

I think Pep Boys or Auto Zone have pullers you can rent or borrow on the cheap to get the hubs done. The lug nuts are usually hanging on a hook in a bubble pack on the cheap to.

As for selling it, if it were me I would just drive it until the the next major problem crops up. You already put the money into it to make it road worthy, might as well get the use out of it now. It's market value is probably lower than the value of the use you should get out of it with all the work done.

Once it dies you can grab a decent low mileage Accord or Camry which would all but guarantee 300k+ mi trouble free service with routine maintenance. Buying a Gran Prix (another GM) is a lateral move at best, sort of like changing seats on the Titanic. Honda and Toyota cost more up front but you save because they last considerably longer and have significantly less unscheduled maintenance. So aside from the pleasure of driving a well designed vehicle you save money over the life of the car. I'm a cheap bastard so stuff like this matters to me haha.

Thanks Casey,,hahaha.,, changing seats onthe Titanic.. lol. thats great.
my Head gasket is leaking as well,,, been an issue since i purchased it 4-5 yrs ago maybe now.... i know where the leak is so thats something to consider. seems to be more consistent now though. before it was here and there, now i put water in there every other day, at most.

Meanwhile ok power steering rack is replaced, not leaking, cool. but damn, i gotta repalce the hub assemblies I bought a while ago and rotors (whichare still good) and pads 9which are still good...) i've had the damn wheel off a few times.... rented the puller for the hub from autozone, just gotta return it for my money back, its 35mm for the nut on axle... tried to torque it off tonight but i need a , dammit cant think of it now, torque pneumatic drill tool, got one at at home depot today 35 bucks, 300 ft lbs, but wont do much with my puny little compressor,, 1/2 gallon, great for tires and cleaning carbs but aint worth shit on trying to bite off an axle nut... probably gonna return that and try to replace the hubs at my parents where father has got a bigger compressor and etc. i'lll return the drill, pneumatic, why can't i remember what its called...impact.. there ya go. figure if i get one, A) i need a real compressor, B) i'll upgrade to a 800 ft lb or someptin...

ON A GOOD NOTE, I WENT TO METALLICA CONCERT LAST NIGHT AT US BANK STADIUM!!!

I've seen several shows, being a musician and all, and, at least production-wise, best Ive ever seen, It blew my mind. can't imagine the cost of production at the new stadium.. any questions about that, i'll answer em for ya.

ok back to the heaping pile of crap i've shoveled too much money into..... i'll have to deal with the hubs this weekend when I go home and work on it with father's tools. i know what to do, so it shouldnt take too long. let me tell ya this though, f*ck, i am getting REAL SICK of working on my car and bike over the weekends. i'm about to finally take a shower and its damn near 9pm. wanted to get some scouting for big buck beds today but NOOOOOOOOOOOO, gotta play gearhead. f*ck! F*ckitty f*ck f*ck f*ck. .... ok. time to relax. I'll ttyl guys, thanks again Casey!

 

[caseyjones955]

Thanks Casey,,hahaha.,, changing seats onthe Titanic.. lol. thats great.
my Head gasket is leaking as well,,, been an issue since i purchased it 4-5 yrs ago maybe now.... i know where the leak is so thats something to consider. seems to be more consistent now though. before it was here and there, now i put water in there every other day, at most.

Meanwhile ok power steering rack is replaced, not leaking, cool. but damn, i gotta repalce the hub assemblies I bought a while ago and rotors (whichare still good) and pads 9which are still good...) i've had the damn wheel off a few times.... rented the puller for the hub from autozone, just gotta return it for my money back, its 35mm for the nut on axle... tried to torque it off tonight but i need a , dammit cant think of it now, torque pneumatic drill tool, got one at at home depot today 35 bucks, 300 ft lbs, but wont do much with my puny little compressor,, 1/2 gallon, great for tires and cleaning carbs but aint worth shit on trying to bite off an axle nut... probably gonna return that and try to replace the hubs at my parents where father has got a bigger compressor and etc. i'lll return the drill, pneumatic, why can't i remember what its called...impact.. there ya go. figure if i get one, A) i need a real compressor, B) i'll upgrade to a 800 ft lb or someptin...

ON A GOOD NOTE, I WENT TO METALLICA CONCERT LAST NIGHT AT US BANK STADIUM!!!

I've seen several shows, being a musician and all, and, at least production-wise, best Ive ever seen, It blew my mind. can't imagine the cost of production at the new stadium.. any questions about that, i'll answer em for ya.

ok back to the heaping pile of crap i've shoveled too much money into..... i'll have to deal with the hubs this weekend when I go home and work on it with father's tools. i know what to do, so it shouldnt take too long. let me tell ya this though, f*ck, i am getting REAL SICK of working on my car and bike over the weekends. i'm about to finally take a shower and its damn near 9pm. wanted to get some scouting for big buck beds today but NOOOOOOOOOOOO, gotta play gearhead. f*ck! F*ckitty f*ck f*ck f*ck. .... ok. time to relax. I'll ttyl guys, thanks again Casey!

NICE on the Metallica concert, wifey and I pretty regularly listen to the first 6 albums! Good stuff. We dont often get good concerts here but James Taylor was just here and I skipped it to have enough money to buy this 89 Venture. I'll always regret not going though. That must have been a great show and a nice break from knuckle busting.

On the car, very sorry its still fussing with you. I didnt know about the head gasket being an issue too, had I know that I might have suggested cutting your losses and folding it in. Thats a fairly involved job, involves torque sequences and specs, making sure the head gasket surface is true, probably milling it and pressure testing it just to make sure $$, then the FelPro head set of gaskets, then retime it... Honestly I would just keep it topped off and drive it.

How does it run now? Does it drive fairly straight? Maybe just get it aligned and eff it. Return the hubs and all the other stuff you spent money on, carry a bottle of 50/50 af in the trunk to top off the radiator and just drive it until it falls through a crack in the earth and be saving for a Civic or something when that happens.

https://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/5731855637.html

https://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/5698553841.html

Or if you got really limited funds
https://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/5730983239.html

https://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/5738851202.html

This one about due for timing belt so figure that into your budget
https://mankato.craigslist.org/cto/5704045836.html

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/5741784901.html

You get the idea, service history is important, especially timing belts which are usually due around 90-100k mark and often run over $1000 to have done. If the car is nearly ready for that and theres no service history than knock that off your offer price or walk away. Best bring someone that is savvy with cars to help check it out. I'm really partial to Civics, they are fun, cheap to insure and drive and last for a zillion miles.

 

[radley]

Yeah, the Metallica show was mind-blowing. Their production, OMG, above and beyond anything I could have scripted. Rock show like I've never seen before..

Well cool, thanks man, I'll take a look into those posts. Hope I won't have to look too soon. Like you said, I'll keep it topped off and eff it at this point. I got the hubs and rotors on Ebay pretty dang cheap.. not sure if it's worth shipping back... 40 bucks for both of the hubs...shipped... whatever, i'll probably throw them on so at least I feel better about getting em in the first place. That and I wont have to listen to that annoying grind noise coming from them, or the one at least.

Seems to be running good....temp good as long as I keep cooling system wet, doesn't sound too bad, drives pretty straight, just got that play in the wheel it seems, i had it jacked up this weekend, front end and took a look into the wheel play, and the steering wheel position when on the pinion. Feels worse when driving than it looked on jack stands and turning wheel left to right.... I'll get an alignment done and drive the thing til I'm heading to the junk yard. After that I'll look into one of those foreign vehicles you talked about before... Keep it topped off, i always keep coolant and water in the trunk.... so, yeah. I'll get an alignment done within a couple days here and call it good.

Thanks for all your help, keep checking in. This thread has been turning out to be quite the saga...speaking of Saga, anyone a fan of Summit Saga IPA? It's like my favorite beer, so good...

 

[caseyjones955]

Might as well install them if you got them that cheap. Last time I replaced hubs on a GM they were a couple notes from the parts house. IMHO your best bet is to use it until the end of it's life now to get your money back. Why not?

I was just throwing links out there as examples but I forgot a very noteworthy auto.
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/5703078057.html
I drive one of these myself and it's hands down the best car I have ever owned. Get one thats been taken care of and you will never EVER go back to an American car. Im sure you knew this but Lexus is made by Toyota.

Glad the Metallica show was a hit. They have been doing it a long time!

Have fun with the hubs!

 

[radley]

Ok so had the PS rack and stuff looked at when I brought it into MIDAS for alignment.. Talked to the guy prior and explainin situation. He lifted teh car up and took a look, after a while brought me in there. The pass side mounting bolt, was missing a bushing, must have fallen out when we were spinning that rack around trying to get it to fit,, so the bolt was a bit loose. I have the bushing in my car somewhere, figured i'dkeep it in case we found a reason it was around.. . the moutning tab on driver side for the rack was already frail and rusted, completely broke off, as I knew it probably would. Also the bolt on pass side, well, the hole for it was getting stretched out a bit from the stress and pressure of the rack, and without having any support on driver side,,, moving a bit. one TRE nut was loose, so he tightened that up as well. basically I'd have to rig up a way to stabilize that rack. it's much better now that the TRE nut and the one mounting bolt have been tightened, but obviously not a long term solution. He said he'd have to probably try to drop the under carriage to gain better acccess,, possibly to weld a mounting plate or two to it, drill holes in them and slip a bolt or do whatever in order to keep that rack from moving.... i think that was the problem for the most part. meanwhile the steering wheel is closer to 12 DOC, but sitll not perfect. it's better, steering much tighter, but things aren't 100%. Only cost me 35 bucks to have the guy take a look and dink around for a while.. wasn't bad and now I know whats up. The under carriage, there are 2 bolts, one by each wheel that he tried to loosen up with impact, wouldn't move. said there's a nut inside the undercarriage that, well, things could be rusted in there as well, he could heat it up and try, who knows what'll happen, a 2 hour job (conveniently at 100 bucks an hour) could turn into an all day ordeal, ya know... if the nut inside aint moving, or wahtever, he'd have to cut a hole in under carriage to gain access to it... that damn car would be there for hours.. so it's not like super awesome

my neighbor woiuld hook me up with the head gasket front and rear replacement job if I wanted him too,,, and decided I didnt wanna fuss with it over an entire weekend.. 500 bucks.. not gonna do that, not putting that cash into that car with those kinda miles.

so not sure if I should try to sell it, or take out the good newer parts and try to sell them on CL or something, or what.

also when I go in reverse and am turning while I do it, the wheel stops turning, locks up sorta.. not sure how or why... i have to move it around a bit an what not in order for the turning to continue, i'll check into that again, but either way, somptin isn't right, might be cuz the driver mounting bolt isn't there or supporting the rack,, and it must be moving fromthe pressure or something.... i'm no expert on that stuff, not enough experience with racks. everything else i've done though, timing belt, water pumps, alternator, all that stuff.

so that's the car thus far.... i dunno, thought i'd update.

so havent done hubs and rotors and pads yet,, also didnt do alignment cuz of rack issues.... doens't seem to be driving too bad though, as far as straightness, etc...

also will need new rubber for winter I bet.

damn MN snow and salt....... rough on them autos.

 

[Fire-medic]

Find out what the car's worth in decent shape, donate it and take the charitable deduction tax write-off. I wouldn't want the liability of knowing the problems it has, and trying to get whatever pittance you could sell it for, and then be sued because the next owner gets hurt or killed in it, and someone sues you as the prior owner, for selling a defective car.

I like Toyotas, we've had two Camrys, the 3.0 liter V6, which is also used in the Lexus of the same time. We sold one after 300K miles, and now have another that has close to 200K miles, 160K miles of which has been ours. It does a just-under 200 mile daily commute. We replace timing belts, batteries, and brakes, and CV joints if needed. I did have a transmission issue in the first one after 200K miles, so I can't be too-upset w/that.

I had a 4-cyl Accord 5-speed that was fun to drive, and it got 25+ mpg no matter how I drove it. Similar maintenance to the Camrys, no tranny repair though. Thieves tried to steal it, but didn't know how to drive a manual transmission car, they abandoned it in the middle of the parking lot. I like the Accords more than the Civics, more room, and not so-much of the young-driver 'ricer' look. Don't forget your big diameter chrome exhaust tip!

 

[radley]

noticing more leaking with head gasket lately.. been filling it up with water every couple days..not driving anywhere too far, havent had to, just locally to work and back. left work yesterday and car was getting a bit hot, figured I was low on water again, so when I got home, car was at 200 degrees or so, above average a little, so I popped the hood and took a peak. I saw water bubbling out at a decent enough rate, lots of air with it, but water level was low..i know where there's a little leak, lookin into hood, closest head gasket, right side towards the middle of the engine, that's where I saw stuff weeks ago, and where the coolant had been pooling from.. but,, yesterday, dang,, saw where it was coming from.. so, lookin into hood, closest gasket.. back right corner,, jsut arond the corner past the thermostat, that's where it was coming out pretty good.. i filled up the reservoir and kept pouring, pouring,,, soon there was a huge wet spot under my car...the water was leaking right out of that spot.... like Casey said earlier,, small head gasket leak will get worse...sure did.. after a while the water level does finally settle, the resevoir doens't drain completely but with the atmospheric pressure of being full, will drain to half, maybe slightly more-ish..

So, time has possibly finally come. Sucks cuz the engine itself is running well, after the whole swim thing earlier this summer. new steering rack, not secured properly though,, newer alternator (1 yr old), new serp belt, new water pump, new spark plugs, new plug wires, newer EGR valve (1 yr old), new air filter,...

i could have a guy fix head gasket for 500 bucks. still gotta deal with steering thing but, not so worried about that, been working decent enough for me to get around...

dangit, hmmm.. Obviously put a lot of money into it, but have had to in order to keep running.. and have gotten by pretty cheap..... bought her for 300 bucks 4-5 yrs ago from my cousin.. her dad is older and not too auto-experienced. leaking head gasket enough of a scare and my 1990 Camry wasn't doing too well, so worked out great.. Will need new tires by winter too, esp if I want to be getting around the snow and what not for deer season...

I don't feel good junking it for 150 bucks... put more into it than that in the last 2 weeks... ya know? Meanwhile sitting on new Rotors, New Pads, and also new Hubs.... is this how people end up with garages full of useless stuff?

Thoughts,,, dangit. I dont' want to spend 3-4K on another vehicle.. maybe it's time I should do something like that, but dang, how the hell do I save up for a house down payment, etc... would rather not have a loan out,,, hate owing people money... or find something with higher miles, got a friend selling his 2001 Nissan Pathfinder with 190K... plenty of miles on it, dont know much, havnet looked at it yet, just dang,, not sure what to do...

in the meantime, I'll keep plenty of liquid with me and take it day by day. Need to do some scouting this weekend...only chance I have before opener which is sept 17.

https://youtu.be/mIE6DK6epvA

 

[caseyjones955]

I feel your pain, im also saving for 50% down on a house. 200 degrees is not bad, most modern EFI cars are designed to run at that temp with thermostats that open ~195. The boiling over is a concern thouh, 500 for the head gasket job is cheap, especially considering a quality gasket kit might be around 100. Dont cheap out on that, get felpro. 190k on a pathblocker aint to bad, just remember our talk about timing belts, if it has a belt instead of a chain you will be facing the that service cost, at 190k its either just been done or is due. The market on used cars and bikes is really soft right now so that should work in your favor. Im really sorry your still struggling with it but sounds like u got it cheap enough that your not really underwater on it. Only fill water with engine cold or running adding slowly or what happens is like ice cubes in hot coffee.