COP update

Here's the exact post. I was wrong, he didn't say it was exclusive to Dyna but those are the only units I've read that had trouble with the extra current.

Okay... IF you are going to use COP (I was) check the resistace of the coils, most COP has to low resistance and will fry the CDI, TCI or if you have a Dyna 3000. Thas why I don't run with my COP....
I checked BEFORE fitting, and I checked with the technichians at Dyna... the COP must be modified in order to work.... and the COP has limited power on waste spark engine. But they would have saved some space.

- Johan

Thanks for the input Mark. I checked the UK site and found it interesting that one guy was mentioning his buddy that's on his 3rd Dyna.

I'm going to call Dyna and see if they can fix this thing. Then I may sell it, if they can't modify it.

Also, anyone know of the best source for the stock TCI? The part number is:
3JP-82305-12-00
The best I got so far is $403.00 from Bike Bandit.

Vinnie

When I did the COP mod I went on the lookout for a spare TCI on fleabay 'just in case'.

I found that you can usually find one around $125, and missed one at $50 because I was away from my 'puter at the time.. :bang head:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Mot...les_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116

Vinmax said:

Thanks for the input Mark. I checked the UK site and found it interesting that one guy was mentioning his buddy that's on his 3rd Dyna.

I'm going to call Dyna and see if they can fix this thing. Then I may sell it, if they can't modify it.

Also, anyone know of the best source for the stock TCI? The part number is:
3JP-82305-12-00
The best I got so far is $403.00 from Bike Bandit.

Vinnie

Click to expand...

Vinnie, check with Sean Morley or John Furbur. Ebay may be an option too. Make sure you get one from the correct range. '85-'89 or '90 and up.

maleko89 said:

Vinnie, there's a post on the Euro Vmax site about this. The Dyna 3000 just can't handle the extra amperage. I'll see if I can find it.

Kloker, how many have you gone through?

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I read this whole post and have no freaking idea what the hell you are all talking about?

COP?

I do know that I had my first dyna 3000 crap out almost instantly. The second one seems ok still but the 2 step doesn't work.

It is really sad that this is our only choice for an after market ignition. I think they they are really generic compared to the other ignitions that dyna makes. Some of their drag stuff is top notch and only a little more money than the 3000.

Shawn, it stands for Coil Over Plug. They replace the stock ignition coils and wires.

Thanks for the heads up about eBay and Furbur regarding the TCI. I was trying to get a hold of K&N Motorcycles today but they never answered the phone. I wanted to see what they're price was on the TCI. So far, Bike Bandit has the lowest cost at $403.00 Some places are asking almost 600 bucks! Crazy.

I'd still like to hear from anyone that will put an amp meter on the ignition circuit and see what the thing is pulling on a stock TCI.

Vinnie

Be sure and call Gary McCoy at Mondak Motors. I believe he has the best prices for forum members now.

shawn kloker said:

I read this whole post and have no freaking idea what the hell you are all talking about?

COP?

I do know that I had my first dyna 3000 crap out almost instantly. The second one seems ok still but the 2 step doesn't work.

It is really sad that this is our only choice for an after market ignition. I think they they are really generic compared to the other ignitions that dyna makes. Some of their drag stuff is top notch and only a little more money than the 3000.

Click to expand...

its not the only option -i have been researching some ignition ctrl systems for this turbo efi im building.and have run across one that isnt a plug and play.but will work and will run cop logic style coils or stock ones if you like.has knock retard -individual per cyl too.perfect for a turbo or high comp motor.they are in the 600 dollar range.later mike

Indeed, Gary has the best prices - way better than bikebandit or any others for any OEM parts.

I don't mind doing the amp test for you - I'm running COPs on my '86 with stock ignition, is that going to help? Which year is your bike - pre or post '90?

shawn kloker said:

I read this whole post and have no freaking idea what the hell you are all talking about?

COP? .

Click to expand...

Not sure how you missed the other two threads + G's how to :ummm::ummm:

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5656&highlight=coil+plug
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5766&highlight=coil+plug
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5865&highlight=coil+plug
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5868&highlight=coil+plug

Vinnie- I am in NY, my bike is in NC so I can't run the amp check for a few days, sorry. As I noted in my post, I did blow a fuse while passing, but have had no problems since putting in the 10A breaker.

I think I may be the only one running the Dyna3k with the COP mod other than you. where are you located ?

Hi David,
I'm in Colorado between Denver and Boulder. My bike is a 2001 that uses the later model Dyna #D3K7-6.
During the ride I was taking, I was running the bike hard on and off (no sustained high rpm) but I never hit the rev limiter before the unit gave out. I was on advance #2 (one step up from stock) and was on rev limit 9500.
I emailed Dyna and asked them some questions about having the unit repaired (which I think is impossible being that the unit is all epoxied together). I also asked them why these things seem to blow eventually even with stock coil setup. I mean, that's what I'm finding out from other people that have them. Seems there's a lot of people that had them blow out. The stock TCI can also give out, but I don't hear it as often.

When anyone gets a chance to do some amperage checks, I'd be glad to hear the results. I love the COP mod and want to get all the facts on the table and sorted out so we can all run reliably. It sucked being stranded with the sun going down and the weather getting cold. I wound up having my wife come by with the car and my little girl in the back. She brought some tools but not much I could do without another TCI unit to plug in. I had to call a flat bed and had the bike home at a cost of $152.00 What a waste of money,,,,,:bang head:

Thanks,
Vinnie

OK Vinnie I just ran the amp test on Maxine for ya. Remember this is an '86 Max with stock TCI and 'long' COPs from a 600 GSXR.

At 1000rpm idle it runs about 4.5 Amps. It doesn't seem to go up much at all when revving, but does go up if idling low (800rpm).

The full range I saw, revving it and holding it at 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8k rpm was 3.9 - 6.2 Amps.

Hope this helps!

naughtyG said:

OK Vinnie I just ran the amp test on Maxine for ya. Remember this is an '86 Max with stock TCI and 'long' COPs from a 600 GSXR.

At 1000rpm idle it runs about 4.5 Amps. It doesn't seem to go up much at all when revving, but does go up if idling low (800rpm).

The full range I saw, revving it and holding it at 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8k rpm was 3.9 - 6.2 Amps.

Click to expand...

Hey there

Johan's (the guy quoted from Vmaxchat) concern was about the COP resistance being too low compared to stock coils and therefore would blow stock TDI/CDI and Dyno 3000s. Have you measured the resistance of your GSXR600 COPs?

I actually joined up here after seeing Johan's post on Vmaxchat and thought someone on here might have compared resistance figures for the various COP options. Anyone?

Johan generally knows his stuff about electrics (e.g. he's the guy who originally came up with the R1 rectifier/regulator mod).

I'm interested in COPs for my Vmax trike but I don't want to risk blowing my TDI.

Check my previous post - stock TCI + COPs draws 3.9 to 6.2 amps on my bike.

Since the ignition has a 10 amp fuse, I can't see how the above current range could have any detrimental effect on a stock TCI.

Can't speak for the Dyna3000, but it sure looks like that unit is a bit on the weak side..

Vinnie, I am running the same on my V-max. in one of the posts I linked to earlier, I thought one of the folks took the measurements you are asking for. my coils are from an R1, again, sorry I can't get to them for a bit

maybe the "long" coils G has are higher resistance sticks :ummm::ummm:

ssnsltd said:

maybe the "long" coils G has are higher resistance sticks :ummm::ummm:

Click to expand...

When I first got them I checked their resistance, and they were all around 3.2 ohm if I remember right. I did post it in one of the earlier COPs threads.

Hey G,
Thanks a bunch for checking that stuff out for me. That amp reading is wayyyyyyyyyyy lower than I was getting when I did my quick check with my Dyna. If I knew I was going to be having any problems at all, I would have logged a lot more information, including before and after amperage readings.

The COP's I'm using are from a 2007 Yamaha R1. The resistance is about 1.3 ohms each when measured across the primary contacts. If you get a chance, I'd appreciate if you could measure one of yours and see if the GSXR 600 COP's measure about the same. I think you said that you thought they were about 3.2 ohms. I'd just like to be sure. If there are higher resistance COP's then I think we should all be using those.

From your amp readings though, I'm thinking that the Dyna makes you pull more current regardless of what coil is used. I want to see if Dyna responds to my email about not only my issue of burning one out, but why so many people have experienced this with stock coils.

Any more data that you or anyone else comes up with here,,, please let's hear it.

Thanks again guys,
Vinnie
P.S. I'll call Gary McCoy on Tuesday morning to order the new TCI unit. When I get it, I'll do a bunch of testing and post the results.

I wish I could do a 'before' test though. If anyone here can post the amp readings with stock coils, that would be great information for all of us.

Here's the 2 posts showing the resistive values of the COPs and the stock set up.

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showpost.php?p=53003&postcount=115

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showpost.php?p=51110&postcount=90

Vinmax said:

Hey G,

The COP's I'm using are from a 2007 Yamaha R1. The resistance is about 1.3 ohms each when measured across the primary contacts. If you get a chance, I'd appreciate if you could measure one of yours and see if the GSXR 600 COP's measure about the same. I think you said that you thought they were about 3.2 ohms. I'd just like to be sure. If there are higher resistance COP's then I think we should all be using those.

Click to expand...

yo Vinnie,

sorry my bad - the 3.2 ohm reading I remembered was from the OEM coils!

I just checked the GSXR 600 COPs I'm using, and also checked my Honda CBR929R spare COPs. All 8 of them came out at exactly 1.6 ohm.

That's still .3 ohm higher than yours, and at those low values it can make all the difference..

Check it out: 12V / 1.6 ohm = 7.5 amps

Whereas: 12V / 1.3 ohm = 9.23 amps

Having said that, you can see that my highest reading with the 1.6 COPs was just over 6 amps, and I would expect the voltage to be a little higher (13-14V) so there must be some added resistance from the CDI or the wiring somewhere..