help! - runs like sh*t

[dtoebaert-5311]

Hi
Today was our annual icebreaker ride, so this morning I left to the meeting point BUT what the hell? It runs like a wild horse, as if I'd be using the throttle randomly open-close-open-close...
Knowing she doesn't like the cold I thought let's continue a little till the motor gets nice and warm, but no avail...so I headed back home :bang head:
She starts fine, even without choke, worst of all: she's been ridden by two different guys from the local Yam dealer (because I suspected a gear problem, nothing related to this) just recently, and they both said she was in mint condition :ummm:
Battery measures 13.7 'off', when I turn the key it slooooowly sinks to about 12.4, when I turn her on it raises again to about 13.5 - .7 slowly fluctuating.
The only thing I find strange is that the voltage drops when I rev her up??

This was going to be my first organized ride this year :damn angry:
Guess I'll be spending the day troubleshooting the electrical system unless one of you guys thinks it's something different

 

[jojo2667]

when i bought mine it was doing the same thing, the guy actually took money off because of this, anyway, it turned out to be the carbs needed a good cleaning damm the greenies and their ethanol !

 

[allisontech]

when i bought mine it was doing the same thing, the guy actually took money off because of this, anyway, it turned out to be the carbs needed a good cleaning damm the greenies and their ethanol !

I agree "sounds like you need to try the shotgun posted here on the site". My carbs required a full tear down and cleaning on my 04 to get the jets clean in the jet block. It was like cruise automatic cruise control before cleaning them and the idle was all over the place.

Bill:biglaugh:

 

[SpecOps13]

My 89 is dropping voltage as the rpm increases. 14 Volts at Idle and 13.6 at higher rpm. My Odyssey Battery is holding 13.1 Volts after an overnight break. Everybody says to not worry with that.

Ethanol Sucks and can FU anything it touches. Can be a royal pain if not properly taken care of. I run Non Ethanol. My 94 is running perfect again, but the 89 still needs the carbs broken down and cleaned. I've been running cleaner for 5 or 6 tanks and they still have lingering effects of the crap gas.

Just noticed where you live, Maybe you don't even have Ethanol there?????

Good Luck,

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

Thanks for your suggestions! I took off the airbox, checked everything, cleaner than my kitchen...Checked for current leakage - none...Time to eat so charged it over noon...fired it up, let it idle for some time until 'warm'...gathered it didn't sound all that bad...took it out for a short ride...perfect!

I don't get it, I only took the tender off for one night, there's no leakage current I can measure...what the heck??

If it starts up fine the battery is OK right? After that the charging circuit takes over?

One thing though, I just now noticed the small print on the tender saying 'lead batteries only' - does that mean I can't use it for a 'dry' one??

I hope I didn't harm the battery using a wrong type of charger??

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

My 89 is dropping voltage as the rpm increases. 14 Volts at Idle and 13.6 at higher rpm. My Odyssey Battery is holding 13.1 Volts after an overnight break. Everybody says to not worry with that.

Ethanol Sucks and can FU anything it touches. Can be a royal pain if not properly taken care of. I run Non Ethanol. My 94 is running perfect again, but the 89 still needs the carbs broken down and cleaned. I've been running cleaner for 5 or 6 tanks and they still have lingering effects of the crap gas.

Just noticed where you live, Maybe you don't even have Ethanol there?????

Good Luck,

I'd have to check on that, don't know - maybe they make a 'mix' but don't say so explicitly at the station? I normally fill her up with 'Euro95' that's lead-free octane 95 as per the manual??

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

My 89 is dropping voltage as the rpm increases. 14 Volts at Idle and 13.6 at higher rpm. My Odyssey Battery is holding 13.1 Volts after an overnight break. Everybody says to not worry with that.

Ethanol Sucks and can FU anything it touches. Can be a royal pain if not properly taken care of. I run Non Ethanol. My 94 is running perfect again, but the 89 still needs the carbs broken down and cleaned. I've been running cleaner for 5 or 6 tanks and they still have lingering effects of the crap gas.

Just noticed where you live, Maybe you don't even have Ethanol there?????

Good Luck,

Checked it, seems like they've been mixing ethanol in our Euro95 since 2008...
Will fill her up with Euro98 from now on, just in case!
The problem seems to be the 'cleaning' action of ethanol, causing all 'dirt' to come loose & block any filters it passes...
Will check fuel filter next

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

My 89 is dropping voltage as the rpm increases. 14 Volts at Idle and 13.6 at higher rpm. My Odyssey Battery is holding 13.1 Volts after an overnight break. Everybody says to not worry with that.

Ethanol Sucks and can FU anything it touches. Can be a royal pain if not properly taken care of. I run Non Ethanol. My 94 is running perfect again, but the 89 still needs the carbs broken down and cleaned. I've been running cleaner for 5 or 6 tanks and they still have lingering effects of the crap gas.

Just noticed where you live, Maybe you don't even have Ethanol there?????

Good Luck,

And this...
For those of you who have had problems running your vehicle since the introduction of ethanol/gas mix, you probably had a little water in the bottom of your tank, or the gas station had a lot of it. The ethanol allows the water to mix with the gas and be run through your engine. Water in the gas makes the car buck, backfire, stop dead, etc. Ethanol is great for a mood enhancer/modifier, but a lousy vehicle fuel.
...sounds very much like what happened this morning...

 

[jfeagins]

Welcome to the world of ETHANOL.

 

[RaWarrior]

I highly doubt you'll avoid ethanol mixed fuels by buying "premium", or higher octane rating fuels. That's been a myth that is still running wild, that "premium" gas doesn't have any ethanol in it, which (at least in the US) is 100% not true. The federal ethanol mandate requires ALL on-road motor fuel to have it. Run the lowest octane you can without detonation. Remember----octane is a combustion retardant. I know Euro pump numbers are different than US, but the Max runs just fine on 87 (R+M/2), which is "regular" here. Using premium is lining the pockets of oil executives for absolutely zero benefit.

"Dry" batteries are still lead-acid batteries, just the acid is absorbed in fiberglass mats sandwiched between the lead plates and the case sealed. Also called AGM(absorbed glass mat) batteries. They're better for vibration resistance since the plates are "supported" by the mats squeezed between them. No problem there.

13.7 is pretty high for standing voltage. Is that right after you killed the motor? Check again in the morning and see if it's still that high..12.65v is a "fully charged" battery.

It's more or less normal for stator-powered DC system to drop off voltage as RPMs increase, usually with peak voltage just off idle. I looked into it a while ago and it's long, hard to explain, and not particularly interesting. Has to do with with optimizing stator design and windings for certain RPMs as well as how the R/R alters the sine wave AC signal from the stator into DC current. Any A/C alternator does this, including car alternators(which use internal diodes to create DC)...many are designed for peak output around 2000RPM, typical driving engine speed.

That said, I did ride a harley once with a shit battery in it, that drove like what you said...like the throttle was being chopped open and shut(kind of felt like one cylinder was cutting in and out), and it's little speedometer panel was fritzing out...lights going on and off, speedo needle bouncing around, ect. I figured the charging system would compensate, but you can't pull current through a bad battery, it just absorbs it since it's partially shorted. New battery fixed it. If the problem went away after charging, you may have a battery on it's way out. Leave it off the charger and see if it comes back...if so...new battery. Go for an Odyssey....costs more, but they last a really long time. Mine's going on 4 years now and still spins the motor like a top.

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

I highly doubt you'll avoid ethanol mixed fuels by buying "premium", or higher octane rating fuels. That's been a myth that is still running wild, that "premium" gas doesn't have any ethanol in it, which (at least in the US) is 100% not true. The federal ethanol mandate requires ALL on-road motor fuel to have it. Run the lowest octane you can without detonation. Remember----octane is a combustion retardant. I know Euro pump numbers are different than US, but the Max runs just fine on 87 (R+M/2), which is "regular" here. Using premium is lining the pockets of oil executives for absolutely zero benefit.

"Dry" batteries are still lead-acid batteries, just the acid is absorbed in fiberglass mats sandwiched between the lead plates and the case sealed. Also called AGM(absorbed glass mat) batteries. They're better for vibration resistance since the plates are "supported" by the mats squeezed between them. No problem there.

13.7 is pretty high for standing voltage. Is that right after you killed the motor? Check again in the morning and see if it's still that high..12.65v is a "fully charged" battery.

It's more or less normal for stator-powered DC system to drop off voltage as RPMs increase, usually with peak voltage just off idle. I looked into it a while ago and it's long, hard to explain, and not particularly interesting. Has to do with with optimizing stator design and windings for certain RPMs as well as how the R/R alters the sine wave AC signal from the stator into DC current. Any A/C alternator does this, including car alternators(which use internal diodes to create DC)...many are designed for peak output around 2000RPM, typical driving engine speed.

That said, I did ride a harley once with a shit battery in it, that drove like what you said...like the throttle was being chopped open and shut(kind of felt like one cylinder was cutting in and out), and it's little speedometer panel was fritzing out...lights going on and off, speedo needle bouncing around, ect. I figured the charging system would compensate, but you can't pull current through a bad battery, it just absorbs it since it's partially shorted. New battery fixed it. If the problem went away after charging, you may have a battery on it's way out. Leave it off the charger and see if it comes back...if so...new battery. Go for an Odyssey....costs more, but they last a really long time. Mine's going on 4 years now and still spins the motor like a top.

Hey thanks for all this info! :clapping:
This gets printed out & put in my Haynes manual for safekeeping for sure!

Should I be draining the fuel tank if it's going to be stored some weeks without riding? Actually I always fill it up completely for storage to avoid corrosion (I even turn the key now and then to fill the carbs...) - am I doing it all the wrong way??

 

[RaWarrior]

I'd keep the fuel tank brimming full during the off season. This leaves as little room as possible for condensation to form with temperature changes. If you can find it, use the blue Sta-Bil. Add in a couple oz to a full tank, start it up and take it for a brief ride(5-10mi is plenty). Top up the tank again, plug in the battery tender and you're good. If you can't find the blue sta-bil, try to find seafoam. Beware of anything that claims to "cure" phase separation....that's chemically impossible. The best additives can do is delay it. Check this list for additives that work with ethanol. Try to avoid anything with alcohol. A slight benefit of e10 is it kind of has "drygas" built in....it can hold a small amount of water in suspension due to it's alcohol content. When that limit is reached, suddenly all the water precipitates out in what's called "phase seperation". Unfortunately, it's not all that uncommon to get fuel that's already nearly saturated right out of the pump

I typically start mine up every few weeks, and let it run until the temp rises to normal operating temp. You'll probably notice a lot of steam blowing out the exhaust for a while after it's first started....all moisture that had condensed inside the engine being burnt off. Rev it up and hold it at a few different RPMs to get fuel flowing through all the carb circuits. Mine is sometimes a bit hesitant when revving after sitting for a while, but usually clears up pretty quick.

Some people like to drain the bowls. If you do, unplug the fuel pump and crank the engine(it'll probably run for a second or two) afterward to suck any residual gas out of the jet blocks and passageways.

 

[SpecOps13]

That was a very interesting link RaWarrior...:biglaugh:

 

[m-cman]

So what am I going to do with my 6 cans of Seafoam?? :confused2:

 

[2fear]

So what am I going to do with my 6 cans of Seafoam?? :confused2:

ship it to me....

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

I'd keep the fuel tank brimming full during the off season. This leaves as little room as possible for condensation to form with temperature changes. If you can find it, use the blue Sta-Bil. Add in a couple oz to a full tank, start it up and take it for a brief ride(5-10mi is plenty). Top up the tank again, plug in the battery tender and you're good. If you can't find the blue sta-bil, try to find seafoam. Beware of anything that claims to "cure" phase separation....that's chemically impossible. The best additives can do is delay it. Check this list for additives that work with ethanol. Try to avoid anything with alcohol. A slight benefit of e10 is it kind of has "drygas" built in....it can hold a small amount of water in suspension due to it's alcohol content. When that limit is reached, suddenly all the water precipitates out in what's called "phase seperation". Unfortunately, it's not all that uncommon to get fuel that's already nearly saturated right out of the pump

I typically start mine up every few weeks, and let it run until the temp rises to normal operating temp. You'll probably notice a lot of steam blowing out the exhaust for a while after it's first started....all moisture that had condensed inside the engine being burnt off. Rev it up and hold it at a few different RPMs to get fuel flowing through all the carb circuits. Mine is sometimes a bit hesitant when revving after sitting for a while, but usually clears up pretty quick.

Some people like to drain the bowls. If you do, unplug the fuel pump and crank the engine(it'll probably run for a second or two) afterward to suck any residual gas out of the jet blocks and passageways.

unk:thankyouthankyouthankyouunk:

As you say, there's always 'some' white smoke at first, but that time it was excessive & didn't go away. I guess I filled it at the wrong gas station....it's fine now, all issues gone, changed fuel supplier...

& thanks for the link, very informative!

I think lots of "battery" problems on this forum can be traced back to moisture in the engine - I deliberately didn't keep it on the tender & doesn't make a difference!

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

This link is pretty informative too
http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/default.aspx