No Spark Issue

[DMAN999]

I got my starter clutch back on and now my 2000 Max has absolutely No Spark to any cylinder.
The fuses are fine, all lights, switches, etc work and the starter relay/solenoid is good (clicks like it should) according to the tests in the various Service Manuals (page 968 on in the Cyclepedia, chapter 7 of the Yamaha Manual and Chapters 5 and 9 of the Haynes Manual).
So I did this check on my Relay Unit/starter cutoff relay that's under the left scoop "Use an Ohmmeter to test the resistance on the starting-circuit-cut-off-relay.
If the resistance is out of specification,the cut off relay unit must be replaced. Attach the probes to the red/black wire terminals and the black/yellow wire
terminals.
Starting-circuit-cut-off-relay resistance 225Ω ± 10%
at 20°C (68°F)"

I couldn't figure out exactly which contacts to check because the CyclePedia and Service Manuals referred to older models.

So I tested all the other relays and all seemed to be within specs.
I also tested my Stator and Stator Pick-up and they tested good as well:

So I contacted Sean Morley and had him send me his Electrionics test kit for my year Vmax.
And my Starter circuit relay read the same as the one and when I swapped them the issue persisted.
After swapping in each of his relays, TCI, etc. one by one and trying to start my Max, it appears all mine were indeed good because the No Spark issue remained.
So I finally tested the Neutral Switch only to find that it tested bad.
I have ordered one and will install it and see if that does indeed solve my no spark issue.

 

[Traumahawk]

Well keep us informed how it turns out.

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[D-Max2012]

Neutral switch? I'm trying to wrap my brain around that one..
The OP stated that he has no spark.
When I tried to start my bike and it was not in neutral, it would not turn over. I'm assuming a neutral switch is in play at that point, someplace.
And with that said, how would a determination of a no spark exists, if the engine is not spinning?

On that photo of the pickup coil connector, looks like there is a resistor on the wire behind it. Are you running COP's? If so, do you think there could be some generic firing point that failed, like the pick up unit? You might want to open the side cover to inspect the coil and pickup unit.

Just thinking out loud here, but if the coil reads fine, but the pickup unit is off its mounting post, it will read the correct ohm reading but will not generate a pulse from the magnet. Just a thought.
Good luck.

 

[Miles Long]

Neutral switch? I'm trying to wrap my brain around that one..
The OP stated that he has no spark.
When I tried to start my bike and it was not in neutral, it would not turn over. I'm assuming a neutral switch is in play at that point, someplace.
And with that said, how would a determination of a no spark exists, if the engine is not spinning?

On that photo of the pickup coil connector, looks like there is a resistor on the wire behind it. Are you running COP's? If so, do you think there could be some generic firing point that failed, like the pick up unit? You might want to open the side cover to inspect the coil and pickup unit.

Just thinking out loud here, but if the coil reads fine, but the pickup unit is off its mounting post, it will read the correct ohm reading but will not generate a pulse from the magnet. Just a thought.
Good luck.

I'm thinking pickup coil as well.
Everything was fine until the starter clutch was overhauled. Therefore, very good chance the problem has got to do with the left side engine case being removed - no spark - therefore pickup coil or wiring.
Just my opinion. Cheers!

 

[DMAN999]

I failed to mention that the issue was there Before I changed the starter clutch.
I put my Max in a Ditch a few years ago at 35 mph and it was running while in the ditch.
I had to pull myself up the bike to shut it off.
And it has NOT started since.
I was hoping it was just the starter clutch preventing it from starting But obviously that wasn't the only issue.

And the Engine Does attempt to start BUT there is No spark at any of the plugs.
And ALL the coils (COPs) do get power (the resistors get hot as soon as I turn on the key).

As for the neutral switch, I tested it according to the manuals and it tests as Bad and every other relay/stator/pick up/etc. all test as good.

 

[Dorney]

Now that you said you put it in a ditch have you check the kick stand switch ?

 

[DMAN999]

The kick stand switch has been gone (wires connected together to eliminate it) from my bike since about 2002 or so.
But I did check the connector for the kick stand switch and it tested fine.

 

[D-Max2012]

Let us know what you find when you pull the stator cover off.. I'm thinking either a burned out stator coil winding, or pickup unit off its mounting plate. (since it did read within specs for ohms).

(the resistors get hot as soon as I turn on the key).

Does anyone else who's running COPs notice that the resistors get hot on power up?
If not. there may be a grounding or shorting problem back to the frame, instead of going through the spark wires and plugs.

 

[dingy]

Let us know what you find when you pull the stator cover off.. I'm thinking either a burned out stator coil winding, or pickup unit off its mounting plate. (since it did read within specs for ohms).

Does anyone else who's running COPs notice that the resistors get hot on power up?
If not. there may be a grounding or shorting problem back to the frame, instead of going through the spark wires and plugs.

The COP's resistors would get as hot as they are going to get on power up. TCI system has coils energized majority of time, only when coil is fired does TCI interrupt current to coil.

This is opposite what a CDI does.

Gary

 

[DMAN999]

The Stator, stator wires, pick up and pick up wire all looked good.

 

[D-Max2012]

That doesn't look bad.. If the ohms readings falls within specs, they should be OK.. Did you put a meter on the engine kill switch and test it?
Just to make sure there's not an issue with the ignition cut off switch, I would pull the wires from the housing near the throttle grip and see that my switch does give the correct on / off in the right switch position.

 

[jfeagins]

Have you observed your voltage while cranking? Our older CDI's get finicky for voltage, and even if you swapped your's out for one Sean sent, they could both be finicky and if your voltage while cranking is dropping below that magical #.....................

 

[DMAN999]

Have you observed your voltage while cranking? Our older CDI's get finicky for voltage, and even if you swapped your's out for one Sean sent, they could both be finicky and if your voltage while cranking is dropping below that magical #.....................

I did and it was between 10.6 and 11.5 volts while cranking.
And I did try with Sean's TCI and it didn't make any difference.
The neutral switch is supposed to get here today so I'll put it in this evening and see what happens.

 

[jfeagins]

I did and it was between 10.6 and 11.5 volts while cranking.
And I did try with Sean's TCI and it didn't make any difference.
The neutral switch is supposed to get here today so I'll put it in this evening and see what happens.

10.6V ain't enough, is it???? Sean's black box is probably getting on in years too, and it's a common problem among them.......just sayin'.

Maybe put another battery on it with jumpers & see if you get some sparky, if the neutral switch don't do the trick?

 

[DMAN999]

Everything I have read said anything over 10 volts while cranking is good.

 

[Traumahawk]

I know that mine wouldn't crank below 11. It sounded fast enough.....like it would crank.....but not.

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[DMAN999]

Really, that's interesting.
It was at 11-11.5 while cranking at first but quickly dropped down to 10.8 then 10.6 so I stopped trying.

 

[jfeagins]

I'm not saying that low voltage is your problem Dennis, but way back when I was chasing a no-start problem, off & on for a couple years, my bike's starter would spin like the battery was brand new, and yet the darn CDI didn't have enough to fire. Almost always on a cold morning for me, and then after work, when the temps were a bit warmer, the darn thing would fire right off like nothing ever happened. Had me pulling my hair out, I tell you. At no time did I ever suspect voltage. I'm guessing, in my case, my CDI internal BS/connections were just on the verge of being bad enough that on a cold morning, and with it's internal temp a bit cooler, it's connections were open just enough to cause grief when combined with a slightly less than stellar battery voltage. Then when the temps got warmer, and the CDI internals 'gaps' weren't as bad (aka metal expands when warmer), the same battery voltage was then good enough for spark.

I wrote it off to "weird chit happens, and it always finds a way to happen near me".

Your problem may very well be something entirely different. All it would take to eliminate it though, would be to connect another battery to yours with cables to test it out.

I fixed mine by both installing the bigger batterybox mod AND going through my starter for the internal brush plate grounding issues, to make the starter pull a bit less all the time (especially when hot). Eventually, I also upgraded to the newer R/R for better charging of my now bigger battery too. I've never experienced the problem again. "knock on wood."

[edit] if memory serves, my voltage was dropping down into the 10.8v area while I was chasing this problem.

 

[DMAN999]

I will definitely check using the AGM battery from my snow blower just to be safe.
I agree, I definitely want to eliminate the battery from the possible causes.

 

[DMAN999]

Neutral Switch installed and still No Spark at any cylinder.
I also tried to start it with my snow blower battery (340 CCA) and jumped to my battery and it made no difference.

I am going to drain the oil again and pull the stator cover and check the stator and pick up again But they both tested as good.

I'm thinking it is probably a bad/loose connection somewhere but who knows.
I have checked all the connections I could think of that are part of the ignition system but I guess I'll be checking and testing them all again.

Any more Ideas what else it could be ???