FRONT FORKS

[user 75059]

Point taken but point kinda missed.
The later belgarda were inverted not conventional as were the yz450s, i have owned both and kinda thought given they were up there as far as dirt bikes go with the weight(seen one take a harley sportster engine an 100kg rider no worries) the mods might be less than something else.
I should have expanded on the tweeking as I did not think that anyone would seriously think the standard wheel /brake/axel configuration on a dirt bike would be a consideration, nor the fitting of a rudimentary headlight/guard modification a major issue.
But sure, thanks for the proposed solution(s) to my non intrinsic or perhaps you meant inerrant max problem(s), I am glad that you were subtle, welcoming and understanding in your guidance rather than sarcastic. Good to see the old guard in a popular forum dont punch down.
Change ya photo to Fester not Gomez.

 

[Parminio]

Don't know what crawled up your ass and died, Mr., but you definitely have issues. If you don't want people's opinions, don't ask for them.

I'm not hear to say, "Well, my dear son, it's not a very practical solution for your needs. I'm so very sorry that's the way it is but I'll do whatever I can to make it up to you, bless your little heart."

Two posts and one of them is crying like a little girl over an opinion you asked for?

Yeah. You'll do real well here.

 

[tinman22]

You could certainly put a usd fork on the max. I'm not really sure of the logistics of such a swap but im sure a search would yield results. I'm not really sure where the idea of a fork from a smaller bike wouldn't work as it would be to small or light due to the weight of the vmax.

43mm forks came on everything from 125 dirt bikes to vmaxs. its just springs and valving. My xr650l mess has a fork off of a cr125.

I would start with an oil flush, a proper adjustment of the problematic stem bearings and do a thorough inspection of the front tire and bearings. If you still aren't satisfied re- spring for your weight and riding style, replace fork bushings and seals then adjust with oil weight and help the whole mess out with a proper fork brace not a glorified fender mount and re-evaluate your situation.

It is definitely a cheaper way to go before a full frontal attack. (haha see what i did there).

the biggest issue with a usd swap is that the rest of the mess behind it. The frame to some is very flexy and the swingarm is in my opinion sloppy at best and by swapping in a usd fork you just move the wiggle further back. In my experience moving that wiggle back just over stresses the other wiggly parts. Think of it like this. Forks,frame,swingarm each wiggle 33.3 percent swap in a 0 wiggle fork now the frame and swingarm wiggle 50 percent each leading to stress fractures and failures and into the pea gravel you go.

these things could also be fixed but at this point you will start getting the "you will have more into it than its worth" argument and "You could buy a gen 2 for less" argument, both of which are probably true.

some people prefer to tinker and mod and find just as much joy in doing so as riding itself. sometimes what one persons idea of to much money is really another persons starting point. Personally I would dump 15k into a gen 1 before i even looked at a gen2 simply because i like the gen 1. I could have bought a brand new KTM for what i have into my xr.

Everything else aside i think what is being said is a usd conversion would probably "fix" the death wobble as a side affect of replacing everything thats worn out or loose at an expense that would far outshine the cost a proper rebuild of the existing unit. while gaining virtually no better handling.

Whatever you do do not ask about fuel injection.

 

[user 75059]

Don't know what crawled up your ass and died, Mr., but you definitely have issues. If you don't want people's opinions, don't ask for them.

I'm not hear to say, "Well, my dear son, it's not a very practical solution for your needs. I'm so very sorry that's the way it is but I'll do whatever I can to make it up to you, bless your little heart."

Two posts and one of them is crying like a little girl over an opinion you asked for?

Yeah. You'll do real well here.

Yeah well every good dictator needs a good toadie! I am sure that you and gomez will be very happy together. See below a real reply from someone who is a real human being.

 

[user 75059]

You could certainly put a usd fork on the max. I'm not really sure of the logistics of such a swap but im sure a search would yield results. I'm not really sure where the idea of a fork from a smaller bike wouldn't work as it would be to small or light due to the weight of the vmax.

43mm forks came on everything from 125 dirt bikes to vmaxs. its just springs and valving. My xr650l mess has a fork off of a cr125.View attachment 74616

I would start with an oil flush, a proper adjustment of the problematic stem bearings and do a thorough inspection of the front tire and bearings. If you still aren't satisfied re- spring for your weight and riding style, replace fork bushings and seals then adjust with oil weight and help the whole mess out with a proper fork brace not a glorified fender mount and re-evaluate your situation.

It is definitely a cheaper way to go before a full frontal attack. (haha see what i did there).

the biggest issue with a usd swap is that the rest of the mess behind it. The frame to some is very flexy and the swingarm is in my opinion sloppy at best and by swapping in a usd fork you just move the wiggle further back. In my experience moving that wiggle back just over stresses the other wiggly parts. Think of it like this. Forks,frame,swingarm each wiggle 33.3 percent swap in a 0 wiggle fork now the frame and swingarm wiggle 50 percent each leading to stress fractures and failures and into the pea gravel you go.

these things could also be fixed but at this point you will start getting the "you will have more into it than its worth" argument and "You could buy a gen 2 for less" argument, both of which are probably true.

some people prefer to tinker and mod and find just as much joy in doing so as riding itself. sometimes what on persons idea of to much money is really another persons starting point. Personally I would dump 15k into a gen 1 before i even looked at a gen2 simply because i like the gen 1. I could have bought a brand new KTM for what i have into my xr.

Everything else aside i think what is being said is a usd conversion would probably "fix" the death wobble as a side affect of replacing everything thats worn out or loose at an expense that would far outshine the cost a proper rebuild of the existing unit. while gaining virtually no better handling.

Whatever you do do not ask about fuel injection.

Thanx Tinman,

I been on it since I purchased it and the other bikes are gathering dust!
I think that the gsxr conversion will be easier than the r1 not that I have done the exact measurments yet but have not given up on the belgarda idea either as I just got a feeling the length might be ok dispite all peripheral issues discussed or not!( see what I did then)
Gunna do the staples on it for the time being- new oil,radial tyre,fork brace and damper and see how it goes.
Thanks for the informative reply.
I look forward to more non passive aggressive communication with yourself and others(see what I did then again).LOL.
Cheers from Down Under

 

[Parminio]

Yeah well every good dictator needs a good toadie! I am sure that you and gomez will be very happy together. See below a real reply from someone who is a real human being.

EDIT: just realized you were talking about MaxMidnight, not my account on the other forum.

My point was simply that it's a useless endeavor. It's not going to improve the bike. Most mods are that way, but some modders (Like you apparently) can't stand being told that they're essentially wasting their time.

Can it be done? Sure. Seen it done. Many times.

Does it help? Nope. Not really. A well set up factory set of forks will outperform it.

But you don't want to hear that, so you get all butthurt and lash out over it. Have fun wasting a ton of money to do a mod that will essentially do nothing for the bike.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Point taken but point kinda missed.
The later belgarda were inverted not conventional as were the yz450s, i have owned both and kinda thought given they were up there as far as dirt bikes go with the weight(seen one take a harley sportster engine an 100kg rider no worries) the mods might be less than something else.

I beg to differ that I've missed the point.
Whichever way up the forks are is IMO irrelevant as you still have the issue of using items that are intended for a bikes that are half the weight of the Max.
Just because you have seen something similar on another bike still doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I should have expanded on the tweeking as I did not think that anyone would seriously think the standard wheel /brake/axel configuration on a dirt bike would be a consideration, nor the fitting of a rudimentary headlight/guard modification a major issue.

This is perhaps the most concerning comment you have made. That you are surprised that 'anyone would seriously think the standard wheel /brake/axle configuration on a dirt bike would be a consideration' suggests that you haven't.
Are you seriously suggesting that a smaller single disc equipped bike is capable of adequately performing an emergency stop on a machine the mass of the Max or will be able to slow you down from high speeds without suffering brake fade? Or at least considering how the geometry of the forks may influence the handling?
Also from your comment on your headlight inplies that being seen by other road users is not high on you list of survival strategies.

...have not given up on the belgarda idea either as I just got a feeling the length might be ok dispite all peripheral issues discussed or not!( see what I did then)
Gunna do the staples on it for the time being- new oil,radial tyre,fork brace and damper and see how it goes.

IMO that may be the only thing that is right.

Gunna do the staples on it for the time being- new oil,radial tyre,fork brace and damper and see how it goes.

If it needs a fork brace and steering damper then you still haven't fixed the causal problem.

Rather than waste money on these put it towards Racetech springs and Gold Emulators.

I look forward to more non passive aggressive communication with yourself and others(see what I did then again).LOL.

If my response comes over as 'non passive aggressive communication' then I make no apologies.
Sometimes there are things that need to be said as they are. My comments are intended to be helpful and cause to you to consider the points I have raised. IMO dismissing them as 'missing the point' rather than providing a counter argument suggest to me that what you are seeking is approval for your ideas and are not receptive to alternative opinions.

With regard to Gomez - I think he is an ideal role model that if more folk adopted his ideals; love for his wife, children and relations, not understanding why other people can't accept diversity and above all his sense of fun, the world would be a much better place.

But thank you for your suggestion.

 

[Parminio]

You're wasting your time. If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he'll go off on a rant. Let the guy waste his money only to find out he's no better off than he was before.
(But truth be told, most modders will swear it's better even when it isn't because they wasted a ton of money on it.)

 

[MaxMidnight]

But truth be told, most modders will swear it's better even when it isn't because they wasted a ton of money on it.

You mean I have been deluding myself all these years????

 

[Parminio]

Completely, sir. Sorry to say.

 

[Bobby A.]

I’ve had 4 different Max’s since the early 90s and have two now. It’s obvious by that statement, I love the bikes.
I am putting inverted forks on one now. Not so much for the handling aspect but for looks; and yes, a little better stability. They are beefier than stock, which I think the max has always needed. It’s a lot of bike to only have a few pencils in the front. The rake degree isn’t changed but it does look a lot better.
If I really want to carve up a road, I’ll get a sport bike just for that and ride the Max for the “Stop light to Stop light” adrenaline high it’s made for.

 

[huw s]

Completely, sir. Sorry to say.

Understand the reasoning here, but if Yamaha were as good as people who decry mods would have you believe, we'de still be buying gen 1s...
You have to remember, all makers have designers who'd like to take years and years to complete product development, taking on any improved materials and practices that happen along, but the head office will want the model in the showrooms asap, so modding an old model with newer bits isn't as daft as it sounds.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I think the exchange between Mr P and I was tongue in cheek?

I agree with you up to a point but there are limits.
Fitting the latest forks to an old design, twin shock frame will not turn the bike into a razor sharp tool.
It is just as likely to highlight the inadequacies and limitations of the original design.

That said how someone spends their money and time is entirely up to them and as long as they are satisfied with the end result then that, perhaps, is what counts.

 

[Parminio]

I've never seen anybody with a heavily modded Vmax really outperform a factory Vmax except for one. Fellow from Kentucky named Tom Rouse or Rousch or something like that.

He had the 1500 engine, some sort of 4 into 1 exhaust (can't remember the brand), upgraded suspension (factory style stuff, but redone) and to top it off he was a hell of a rider. The bike didn't look much different at all. The sound was the dead giveaway that something was different. There was a saying back then when he'd come down to ride around North Georgia/Tennessee/North Carolina area with us:

No matter the road, when you're riding with Tom, you're riding 90, or you're riding alone.

 

[Fire-medic]

King of the Generation 1 VMaxes:

Kainzinger Vmax – V-Fource 1680 (thekneeslider.com)

Check-out his front end. I double-dog dare you not to look at everything-else.

If you've been a VMax owner since the last Millennium, you may recall this article, probably my favorite on a modified Gen. 1:
Cycle-Word_Ausgabe_06-1997_King_Maximum.pdf (kainzinger.com)

420 lbs wet, a 55.9" wheelbase, 24 degrees head rake, adjustable +-1 degree, an engine of 100 cubic inches, making 2.4 HP/cubic inch, etc.

 

[Parminio]

Articles talking shit about a bike with nothing to back it up.

Yeah. Sure. Right.

I've owned my Vmax for 13 years. Never seen any other Vmax but two that would outclass it. One was Tom Roush's. The other was a Gen 2.

 

[Fire-medic]

Goodness gracious, who's talking what?

I'll assume that '21 hasn't gotten-off to a good start north of me, maybe it's all that tension over the January 5 election?

Even-though Cycle World has gone to a purely online presence now, I'll say that after reading them since the 1960's, and having subscribed to them for decades, I trust the veracity of their authors, and the integrity of their editors. Haven't you ever-read Kevin Cameron, or Peter Egan? I don't need to see Kevin's TZ750 two-stroke four Daytona racer in-person, or Peter's Norton 750 or the Morgan Three Wheeler he recently road-tested, in-person to enjoy what these guys write-about their experiences.

Pride of ownership is a wonderful thing, I've owned my VMax more-than twice as long as you have owned yours, and I'm perfectly-content to putt-around on my mostly-stock bike. I'm glad to hear that yours is the bee's knees, after all, we're all-here to enjoy the baddest cruiser to come from the country that gave us Godzilla.

The guys at the shop I frequent have built some hellacious Vmaxes: big-bore, supercharged, turbocharged, NOS. That costs a lot of $, I'm glad to watch the builds, and to see them tear-around on their bikes, while my relatively stock bike keeps me enthused. I've ridden at Bike Week with Marcus and his Tourmaster 1500 which has won the Horsepower Shootout in the class multiple times, but I doubt that I'm ever gonna spend the bucks to make an engine like that replace my stocker. I do enjoy reading about members' bikes and their work on them. Sharing what I've learned and helping others is a big part of why I'm on-here. I'm not a pro wrench, I'm not a racer, just someone who likes this particular bike.

 

[y2k6200!]

I have 2000 and spent a lot of time researching upgrades at that time. A lot has been discussed on USD's. In my opinion upgrades depend on what you want. Show or Go. Some are the same but few both. If you want show the $ is the limit. If you want a better daily driver "I did" and depending on how you drive there are handling upgrade options in my opinion you should try first. At stock I found the front went light a 125. Upgraded fork bridge, Frame connectors, 17' radials on forged rims and braced swing arm fixed that. With stock front end. The shop I had do the work at did drop the triple tree about 1/4 on the forks. But that was for my rim and tire. This is not a bike you want to stuff in a corner but my chicken strip is about a 1/2" on a rear 180 Met driving the cow paved roads of PA. The age old decision - cost vs benefit.

 

[Parminio]

Goodness gracious, who's talking what?

The knee slider article you posted is nothing but hot air. It states no facts, no figures, no nothing.

It's pure bunk.

Any one of us could have made that up. In fact, it reads like many of the forum posts I've seen by people that vanish the instant you want to see the bike.

 

[Fire-medic]

On the farm if you need water, work the pump handle, sometimes a bit of water helps to prime the pump. thekneeslider.com is a great place to research all-sorts of motorsports stuff, it has lots of motorcycle articles. Your choice to ignore it, but it has a veritable plethora of interesting content for gearheads. Think of it as a place to be introduced to content, to research further once something catches your eye.

Another online resource I enjoy reading is: The Vintagent | About Us
begun by Paul d'Orleans who has lots of connections in the industry and who does a lot of research to be able to publish his content.

The Kneeslider article is actually referencing the second link I posted. It's the same motorcycle.