loud crunch and grind coming out of dead stop

[ninjaneer]

So after a relatively leisurely drive home from work this evening, I was not but a few hundred feet from the house coming out of a stop when the bike started having difficulty going forward. It kinda felt like I was in some gear other than first--maybe like third. So I tried shifting into first but, it felt like I had it in first. Tried to go and it did for like a few feet when CRUNCHITY GRINDY!! sort of like what it sounds like when the starter clutch bolts are loose. I stopped and started praying while I tried to figure out what just happened. Thoughts of broken drive shafts and clutch baskets danced in my head. Don't know why, but I started down shifting and surprisingly enough I found second and first after some SOLID stomping. The bike ran normally for the rest of the hundred or so feet to the garage.

What the fuck just happened? I just did the dd mod. Ive been running with the mod for a week now. An anomaly though I ran across while modding was I found the friction plates 180? out of what the service manual said they should be (the plates' two notch indicators were on the other side of the basket that had the "two dot" key). I reinstalled the friction disks the same way I found them. After the mod, the bike started exhibiting weird stuttering in first coming out of a dead stop. All other shifts are normal

Any thoughts and good news are welcomed. Please, please, please tell me nothing's wrong.

Sent from my Tapatalking Hercules Android

 

[bazwell]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Nothing's wrong!

Well, that's what you asked me to say.

First impression from me - vapor lock in fuel tank.
The last bit you said sounded like clutch might not be moving freely - shuddering a bit. "After the mod, the bike started exhibiting weird stutterring in first coming out of a dead stop." Or maybe not enough clearance? Did it engage close to the bar?

Don't know if you have tried anything, but I would look at putting it in first with the engine off and seeing if you can push it along with the clutch in.

As a guess, the extra force required for the DD will have put strain on the hydraulic system. Maybe slave cylinder seal dying?

Guesses help, right?

 

[alorio1]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Sounds tranny related to me Greg, the DD mod seems to seek out the weak link in a drivetrain from what I have noticed. I hope I'm wrong on this one for sure........Joe

 

[The Beekeeper]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Could be a bit of drag from the clutch keeping you from smooth downshifts, possible shift drum issue?...............................Tom.

 

[ninjaneer]

Don't know if you have tried anything, but I would look at putting it in first with the engine off and seeing if you can push it along with the clutch in.

it is suggestions like this that I need. I dont know what to do to diagnose.

As a guess, the extra force required for the DD will have put strain on the hydraulic system. Maybe slave cylinder dying

I hope not, the seals are a year old at most--I changed them last year

Sent from my Tapatalking Hercules Android

 

[ninjaneer]

So as baz suggested, I disengaged the clutch and attempted to roll the bike back and forth while in first. No problems.

Should I reorient the friction plates such that their two notches line up with the two dots on the basket? They have been 180? off for at least the last of its 10k, which I put on it, with no noticeable problems. Perhaps with the dd mod, it is now necessary to put them back per the service manual?

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[ninjaneer]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

ok so i reoriented the friction plates per service manual (the two notches on the plates line up with the two dots on the basket) and took the bike out for a spin. everything working OK. the shudder that i previously mentioned having when I was coming off of a deadstop in first, is now gone. this seems to merit beekeeper's thoughts. but get this, the entire shift pattern is now a lot more solid and smoother AND the occasional jolts I experienced when downshift ARE gone! keep in mind, being this is my first bike i had nothing to compare against and simply just figured that the jolts were something to be expected with 1980's technology bike. HMPH. I babied it around the neighborhood (out of fear of royally screwing the pooch) and perhaps that's why the jolts weren't present. Dunno, I reserve judgement, on second thought.

I didn't mention this before, but when I was modding the clutch, not only did I find the friction plates 180 degrees out, but I also found the clutch boss spring on the wrong side of the last friction plate. referring to the following image, instead of 7,6,5; i found 6,7,5

so i'm thinking, that either the PO, brought the bike into a shop one day or DIY'd it, and whoever reassembled the stack didn't know how to read a exploded diagram of the clutch assembly and figured the two key dots on basket meant to put the friction plates' two notches on the other side of the basket. FUMDUCKS. Hey I've done some moronic things too, but because I didn't reassemble the basket stack, I have the right to call them fumducks. :rofl_200: fine, i'll give my predecessor the benefit of the doubt and say: yes, the service manual states to line the two notches up with the two dots on the basket, but to rotate them 180 if poor dis/engagement is realized, but chances are, if whoever restacked the plates before me had stacked them in in the correct order, rotating the friction plates 180 prolly wouldn't have been necessary....fumducks.

 

[Lugan]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Great to hear it was a simple fix and no permanent damage. Clearly your prayers were answered :worthy:

 

[The Beekeeper]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Thanks for sharing your adventures and what you discovered, there are lessons to be learned here by those who have not had to disassemble their clutch "myself included" to pay attention to the disassembly, glad everything worked out for you!.....................................Tom.

 

[95spfldmax]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Glad to hear your bike's OK and running well.......the music of them new Mark's shall continue to resonate through your head...........

 

[PDWeyand]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Thanks for sharing your pain, glad it was nothing major.

 

[Junior6996]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Back on the road good to hear glad that's all it was

 

[bazwell]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

Good news! :biglaugh:

The frictions that went in mine don't have those marks, so I am interested in knowing what exactly they mean!

From memory, they go in a different way for early and late clutches too.

 

[ninjaneer]

baz,
Your friction plates didn't have notches like the ones in the eleven o'clock position of my stack?

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[[email protected]]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

I didn't mention this before, but when I was modding the clutch, not only did I find the friction plates 180 degrees out, but I also found the clutch boss spring on the wrong side of the last friction plate. referring to the following image, instead of 7,6,5; i found 6,7,5

IIRC the OEM "half disc", #7 in the diagram above, has a larger ID than the rest of the friction plates. Parts #5, and 6 fit inside the ID of the half disc so I don't see how their positions could be reversed unless someone replaced the half disc with a full size one and kept #5 and 6 instead of tossing them??

 

[bazwell]

Thats right Ninja! :ummm:

I have to pull mine back out because I think I stuffed up something else.
I think I'm going to have to take a stack of pic's and let people comment, coz I got a STRANGE clutch!

Well, I worked out on another thread that it is some sort of old design Barnett. I don't think the frictions are Barnett though.

This week is going to be the hottest week in 42 years here. The average daily max. is 104'F! I grew up in the desert and am used to being much hotter than that, but this is on the coast. It is too humid to be that hot!
There is pretty well no chance of me doing anything on the bike except for if I wake up at midnight!

Pffft. Blech.

http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/forecasts/perth.shtml

 

[ninjaneer]

Re: Please please tell me nothing's wrong

IIRC the OEM "half disc", #7 in the diagram above, has a larger ID than the rest of the friction plates. Parts #5, and 6 fit inside the ID of the half disc so I don't see how their positions could be reversed unless someone replaced the half disc with a full size one and kept #5 and 6 instead of tossing them??

ahh that explains everything, mike. good catch. i guess when i pulled of the half disc and saw #6 still sitting there i assumed it was behind the #7. guess who's the fumduck, now? :rofl_200: