shifting question

[kboonhower]

When I ride the max hard sometimes it comes out of gear. and some times its like the bike is stuck in gear i hit the shifter down and up but its like there is nothing there. Even if i just barly slip the clutch its like the is no gear there. Is this a common problem, and how hard or expensive would it be to fix. Thanks

 

[turbostang]

Second Gear Issues

Problem: THE SECOND GEAR POPS OUT OF GEAR OR THE SECOND GEAR SLIPS IN AND OUT OF

GEAR.

THE FIX:

1. CHECK THE SHIMMING OF THE STATIONARY GEAR.

2. CHECK FOR BENT OR WORN SHIFT FORKS.

3. CHECK THE DOG ON THE SLIDING GEARS FOR WEAR OR ROUNDING.

4. CHECK THE STATIONARY GEAR SLOTS FOR WEAR.

REPLACE ANY WORN GEAR AND SHIM THE STATIONARY GEAR TO THE CORRECT SPEC

(0.08MM/0.0003" TO

0.13MM/0.0005") CLEARANCE.

IN ORDER TO EXPLAIN THE CAUSE AND SYMPTOMS: SEE THE ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION

FROM YAMAHA.

IN MANY CASES THIS SECOND GEAR PROBLEM DOES NOT APPEAR UNTIL THE MOTORCYCLE HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO AN AFTERMARKET EXHAUST SYSTEM OR SLIP ON KIT, WHICH WILL CREATE MORE TORQUE ON THE TRANSMISSION. IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THE TRANSMISSION MAY HAVE BEEN SLIPPING BEFORE THE INSTALLATION OF THE NEW EXHAUST SUSTEM, HOWEVER; THIS PROBLEM MAY HAVE NOT BEEN NOTICIBLE PRIOR TO THE MODIFICATION.



IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THIS PROBLEM, WHICH MAY INCLUDE THE TRANSMISSION POPPING OUT OF SECOND GEAR, AND CONSEQUENTLY - GETTING WORSE EVERY TIME YOU RIDE. DO NOT CONTINUE TO RIDE THE MOTORCYCLE.



IN TIME, THE PROBLEM COULD WORSEN SO THAT THE TRANSMISSION WILL POP OUT AND STAY OUT RATHER THAN SLIDING AROUND TO THE NEXT SLOT. IF YOU CATCH THE PROBLEM EARLY IT MAY JUST BE A BENT SHIFT FORK (CHECK BOTH FORKS ON THE COUNTER SHAFT). SINCE YOU ARE ALREADY HAVE THE TRANSMISSION APART, CHECK THE DOG AND SLOT GEARS FOR WEAR AND THE LATERAL MOVEMENT ON THE SLOT GEARS.



IF YOU DECIDE TO HAVE A SHOP FIX THIS PROBLEM, BE SURE TO PRINT THE TECH BULLETIN FROM YAMAHA SO THE SERVICE DEPARTMENT WILL BE AWARE OF THESE SPECIFIC ISSUES. NOTE: MOST YAMAHA DEALERSHIPS WILL NOT HAVE THIS INFORMATION, DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE BULLETIN WAS ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED IN 1985.



SPECIAL THANKS TO STAN (THE MAN!) AT YAMAHA TECHNICAL SUPPORT FOR HIS ASSISTANCE IN PROVIDING THIS BULLETIN!



GOOD LUCK FROM YOUR FRIENDS AT THE MUSCLE BIKE COMPANY

 

[kboonhower]

in order to check the shift forks and shift cam do you have to completely dissassmble the engine or can you get to those.

 

[shawn kloker]

When I ride the max hard sometimes it comes out of gear. and some times its like the bike is stuck in gear i hit the shifter down and up but its like there is nothing there. Even if i just barly slip the clutch its like the is no gear there. Is this a common problem, and how hard or expensive would it be to fix. Thanks

What year bike is this,The old max's had a problem with the shift selector segment.A stupid design with a tin star holding the shift pins in place.It can get all bent up from shift shaft end play.The good news is that the redesigned segment will bolt right in.I did this to mine after bending up many old style stars.There is a whole post here somewhere with pics and all.I no longer have any trouble with this.

 

[VMaxi2010]

I am getting no neutral and 1st & 2nd are getting very clunky too !!
I have been pointed to the gear selector drum which apparently is a regular point of wear and Yamaha have never improved the part.
I'm getting rediculous quotes to completely dismantle the engine to get to this part!!
Could it be anything else?

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

if you're referring to the 'shift segment' do a search with exactly that term and you'll find everything you need - don't let them talk into removing the engine from the frame - it's not necessary - I had to personally convince my yamaha shop about this - they didn't believe me at first - that's what this forum and/or the VMOA is all about

 

[VMaxi2010]

No, read through and it's not that part. This is the internal drum which has a shift component which seems to wear out fast and because it's in between the cylinders needs a virtual rebuild. I seriously hope it's not this part but it sounds likely.
Do you think there is a thread on this?

 

[one2dmax]

If it is the shift drum (which I don't think it is the full contributing factor) then the engine does need to be removed and split open to get to the trans. It does not need to have the heads, cams, or ANY of the upper half of the engine taken apart.

I would personally inspect the shift segment if your bike was 98 or older. Since you have the 99 you should not have the problem but if it was an early model who knows?? Have you already visually checked this? The drums don't normally wear out "early" or "fast". The gear dogs do tend to wear much more commonly and usually show the first signs as "popping" out of gear when under a heavy load (like full throttle).

Though it could be a drum (the internal part of the drum doesn't really have much to do with the neutral issue) it simply be could be a worn cam centric (though not likely). I would check the lobes on it and see what they look like. It is the part on the end right behind the segment. It has an alignment dowel that keeps it in place. I suppose either the dowel could be sheared off, or the cam worn down Neutral has a small half moon shaped notch. See picture.

The shift arm and latching mechanism all need to be checked. See picture.

If it is not any of those things, and the shifter is not sloppy. The last easy thing to check is the clutch. Is it fully disengaging? Is it easier to shift the bike with the engine off (you will have to "rock" the bike back and forth or have the bike on the centerstand and roll the tire around slowly).

If you get past all that stuff and you are still having problems then likely you have a combination of worn gear dogs (prongs on the sides of the gears that engage into each other to hold it in gear once there), worn shift drum, and worn shift forks. They usually all need replaced or repaired (we redo under trans gears and even offer an overdrive option).

The repair isn't all that difficult but it does take a little time. Either we (the group here) can help you do the bulk of the work yourself or you can send the bike to someone like me (or at least the engine) and I can repair it for you. You could even go with an engine upgrade or one of my good used engines too but that's a bit more then fixing your trans would be.

Sean Morley

 

[VMaxi2010]

Sean, thanks very much for the comprehensive guidance. Unfortunately, I would not be able to send the engine to you as I am in the UK!
I am definitely staying away from the local Yam dealer given the BAD NEWS they were laying on. Instead, I'm going to have it looked over by a chap who comes recommended and has already given me more confidence that it can be fixed for much less.
I am still very much thinking of making this a full overhaul winter project. I have the original Yam service manual which is a good start and I wil def be checking with this site for help!
David.