Starting issue after putting on its side

vladthedog said:

I'm at a complete loss. I swapped out the diode cluster, and still issues. It went from starting (but having issues when giving full throttle), to turning on but the fuel pump not engaging to now nothing except for a headlight and neutral light when i try to turn on. the battery is fairly new, and just sitting there hooked up giving off about 12.3 volts. my battery tester says its a good battery, plus its on a battery tender. I've checked all the various switches I can link of (clutch, starter, kickstand). I even plugged in the old/stock TCI (I have the ignitech).

I'm to the point where I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and finding someone to fix it, but thought I'd see if anyone had any last ideas first?

Click to expand...

My battery is a few years old and today it is at 13.2 volts sitting and not running.
I cannot stress enough how important it is and how may problems it can solve.
A DAMN good battery for the price.
I have sent this one to a lot of members here and it solves problems. Tell them it is for a motorcycle (vmax) so you get the right connections.
http://www.apexbattery.com/ub1220-12v-22ah-battery.html


UB12220 12v 22ah Battery

i'm not opposed to trying a new battery, but I just tried "jumping" it with my car (with the car off of course), and nothing was clicking on except for lights/neutral indicator.

vladthedog said:

i'm not opposed to trying a new battery, but I just tried "jumping" it with my car (with the car off of course), and nothing was clicking on except for lights/neutral indicator.

Click to expand...

Jumping with a car off never worked for me-it did with it running and someone giving it some throttle though.
Blaxmax showed me this battery a while back and it surely helped me.

Check all fuses including the main (which is over the battery positive connection) and 4 locations under the faux tank cover.

Full voltage is 12.63 volts and should not dip much when turning on the key. Should not dip much below 11 during cranking.

Make sure the vboost test cycles when turning the key on (it's a good indicator of the run/kill switch). Fuel pump should cycle when turning on the key (doesn't matter about the run/kill position) but without engine running will only go for 5 seconds. If it's got pressure (from full carbs) then it will not run again until pressure is lost.

vboost was removed by original owner, so no go on that part. Checked and rechecked all fuses.

vladthedog said:

I'm at a complete loss. I swapped out the diode cluster, and still issues. It went from starting (but having issues when giving full throttle), to turning on but the fuel pump not engaging to now nothing except for a headlight and neutral light when i try to turn on. the battery is fairly new, and just sitting there hooked up giving off about 12.3 volts. my battery tester says its a good battery, plus its on a battery tender. I've checked all the various switches I can link of (clutch, starter, kickstand). I even plugged in the old/stock TCI (I have the ignitech).

I'm to the point where I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and finding someone to fix it, but thought I'd see if anyone had any last ideas first?

Click to expand...

I just reviewed all your posts, it does seem like the problem is a low-voltage issue.
Battery post voltage (12.6?) might be misleading in this case. It's the voltage reaching the starter motor that determines how well the engine will turn over. You may be losing voltage somewhere along the convoluted path it is forced to follow.
Only the headlight and neutral light on? A sure-fire indicator of low voltage after turning on the ignition is to test the horn. If it's weak or nor sounding at all, there's no way you have enough voltage available for the starter motor to turn over fast enough to start the bike.
To test, you could "cut directly to the chase" and check available voltage at the motor lead of the starter relay (ignition on, pressing the starter switch), but I'm guessing the problem originates before this point.
With key on, check voltage at the ignition fuse, compare this to battery post reading.
Cheers!

Miles Long said:

I just reviewed all your posts, it does seem like the problem is a low-voltage issue.
Battery post voltage (12.6?) might be misleading in this case. It's the voltage reaching the starter motor that determines how well the engine will turn over. You may be losing voltage somewhere along the convoluted path it is forced to follow.
Only the headlight and neutral light on? A sure-fire indicator of low voltage after turning on the ignition is to test the horn. If it's weak or nor sounding at all, there's no way you have enough voltage available for the starter motor to turn over fast enough to start the bike.
To test, you could "cut directly to the chase" and check available voltage at the motor lead of the starter relay (ignition on, pressing the starter switch), but I'm guessing the problem originates before this point.
With key on, check voltage at the ignition fuse, compare this to battery post reading.
Cheers!

Click to expand...

so, at the ignition fuse, it's only 10.98! (although horn sounds off just fine). Would this be a wiring issue since at battery post its 12.6, or should I just avoid the hassle, get a new battery, and go from there?

vladthedog said:

so, at the ignition fuse, it's only 10.98! (although horn sounds off just fine). Would this be a wiring issue since at battery post its 12.6, or should I just avoid the hassle, get a new battery, and go from there?

Click to expand...

Based on this, I would check / clean all connectors and grounds.

i'll start looking over the connectors, etc tonight, but went ahead and ordered a new battery (thanks blaxmax for the link). I've had the bike for a few years now, and was thinking that it's the battery that came with it. Even if it's not the cause of my issues, it's about time. Thanks for all your input so far.

vladthedog said:

so, at the ignition fuse, it's only 10.98! (although horn sounds off just fine). Would this be a wiring issue since at battery post its 12.6, or should I just avoid the hassle, get a new battery, and go from there?

Click to expand...

I forgot. I'm using dual electric horns. If my battery gets low, they hardly sound. I guess the OEM horn requires much less juice to work. Anyway.....
Hold off on a new battery, this is a wiring thing going on.
Another clue - you said the bike wouldn't respond to a jump start (jumpers on battery posts, I presume). The voltage just ain't makin' it to the starter, Vlad!
So the resistance can only be in a few places. Check each for available voltage, in sequence, till you find the bad actor.
First, the easiest. The ignition fuse itself, or the connectors Pop the other fuses. If they all read low, the resistance is before the fuse box. Good idea to clean all the connectors, in any case.
If not the ignition fuse, check.....
- The upstream side of the main fuse connector (direct off battery), then the main fuse itself.
- The ignition switch connector (many failures reported by this puppy). Disconnect, and check the connector on the
battery side of the red wire. If O.K., leave it unplugged, but use a jumper wire to connect the red terminals together. Then turn the ignition on, and check the voltage of the brown wire (feeds the fuse box) on the switch side of the connector. If much less then battery voltage, the ignition switch is the culprit.
If voltage is still good, only one other possible culprit - the brown feed wire itself. If the wire is suspect, a heavy gauge jumper wire can be used to confirm. This goes for the red battery wire as well.
Cheers!

You can also have a problem with the starter solenoid. Iirc the cables are blue and red. Apply 12v to them and check if it closes and with it closed check voltage between the positive post on the starter and a good ground on frame.

Miles Long said:

I just reviewed all your posts, it does seem like the problem is a low-voltage issue.
Battery post voltage (12.6?) might be misleading in this case. It's the voltage reaching the starter motor that determines how well the engine will turn over. You may be losing voltage somewhere along the convoluted path it is forced to follow.
Only the headlight and neutral light on? A sure-fire indicator of low voltage after turning on the ignition is to test the horn. If it's weak or nor sounding at all, there's no way you have enough voltage available for the starter motor to turn over fast enough to start the bike.
To test, you could "cut directly to the chase" and check available voltage at the motor lead of the starter relay (ignition on, pressing the starter switch), but I'm guessing the problem originates before this point.
With key on, check voltage at the ignition fuse, compare this to battery post reading.
Cheers!

Click to expand...

Miles, Every since i put the battery blaxmax sent me seems like every problem i had went away- hot starts, headlight issues, main fuse blowing, starter turns less revolutions to start-I can see what you are saying about the horn sounding like a wounded duck to determine low voltage as it has worked for me countless times.
I have the stock horn (with super clean connections and dialectric grease and it sound like this duck is definately dying!! Battery is beyond perfect.
I do believe that battery will solve his problems.

I just replaced my 9 year old UB12180 (283 CCA 18 AH) battery with the APX12220 (420 CCA- 22 Ah) battery from APEX and it is a Beast of a battery.
If it lasts even 5 or 6 years it will be well worth the $46 I paid.

I've ordered the APX12220 and should be in friday, so even if i find another issue tonight, this should eliminate future issues. I got to thinking, and have no clue how abused the battery was before i got it, but I haven't exactly treated it nicely in my few years with it, so I'm sure it would be sooner rather than later. For the price and praise on here, I doubt I'll regret it either way.

vladthedog said:

I've ordered the APX12220 and should be in friday, so even if i find another issue tonight, this should eliminate future issues. I got to thinking, and have no clue how abused the battery was before i got it, but I haven't exactly treated it nicely in my few years with it, so I'm sure it would be sooner rather than later. For the price and praise on here, I doubt I'll regret it either way.

Click to expand...

I hope you told them about the conversion hookups for the vmax motorcycle. Some guys didn't use them or get them.
It never hurt to ask and makes it soooo much easier to mount the cables.
I believe they have a phone # on the site.

Dragmaxster said:

I hope you told them about the conversion hookups for the vmax motorcycle. Some guys didn't use them or get them.
It never hurt to ask and makes it soooo much easier to mount the cables.
I believe they have a phone # on the site.

Click to expand...

yes i did

vladthedog said:

yes i did

Click to expand...

Very good- I hope it solves all your problems like it did mine.

Dragmaxster said:

I hope you told them about the conversion hookups for the vmax motorcycle. Some guys didn't use them or get them.
It never hurt to ask and makes it soooo much easier to mount the cables.
I believe they have a phone # on the site.

Click to expand...

What do the conversion terminals look like ?
I have the standard terminals and they are the same as my UB12180 had so I already had the end of my cables bent and it hooked up without any issues at all.

DMAN999 said:

What do the conversion terminals look like ?
I have the standard terminals and they are the same as my UB12180 had so I already had the end of my cables bent and it hooked up without any issues at all.

Click to expand...

There are 4 allen head screws with nuts -It bolts to the terminals then your cables bolt to it. It has a few different ways it coverts.

Gotcha.
Thanks for the pictures.