"Daves skipping/ popping miss/partial fire problems , the Dark years

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ssnsltd

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Just wondering if you are thinking non resistor plugs will help with the amp draw for the ignition circuit???
Not trying to be combative at all, just pointing out it is the primary side of the coil we have been talking about that causes the excessive draw on the ignition. Flame suit on:punk:

no worry here- I am just trying to get rid of the !@#$!#@$T!Y%U^%$!#ing stuttering when it runs. sometimes it runs fine, other times it misses. I have gone through electrical (I thought/think) possibilities, fixed some carb issues that the SOB who charged me $300 to rebuild dorked up (see pic). It is either a bad connection somplace or the/a plug is miss firing. so I figured I would get new plugs and try that.

Do you think going NR plug would make the coil draw more current ? I would think it would take less to fire an NR plug :confused2::confused2:

David, try running the bike in a dark garage and see if you can see a spark jumping somewhere.

How new are your wires/boots? Have you tried putting your stock ignitor back on?

The amp draw is only going to be on the primary side of the coil. It is independant of the secondary side of the coil. The primary side amp draw is based on the input voltage, 12v, and the resistance of the primary coil; COP ~1.5, stock ~ 3. Since the coil is basically a transformer when the ignition interupts the voltage from the primary side it discharges through the secondary side greatly increasing the voltage. Depending on the coil windings this could be, and I am guessing, probably around 30,000-40,000 volts. By ohms law if the voltage goes up then the amperage must go down. So basically we are seeing very very small amperage on the secondary side. So to answer your question, finally, a NR plug will not cause the coil to draw more current. Basically all a resistor type plug does is help supress the Radio Interference from the high voltage discharge. Hope this answers your questions.
Electrical inganeers, please correct me if I am wrong.

Now on to your intermentint miss with the dyna. I had a Dyna until my R/R f*cked up and was putting out 19.5 volts and pretty much fried a lot of shit. Anyways I had a intermintent miss as well. When I went back to my stock ignition it went away. Well this is the only thing I could figure out and once again please correct me if my thinking isnt in the right direction. If you look at the curve for the Dyna
http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/D3K7-7.pdf
it has a dotted curve for partial throttle that is waaaay more advanced then the factory. For example at 4k rpm stock is 36 degrees. Dyna is 45 degrees. 5k stock is 37 dyna is 47. So basically it is 10 degrees more advanced at partial throttle. I would notice this when I got happy with the throtte. With the dyna the stutter would go away instantly and run like a raped ape. As compared to my stock ignition it runs smooth the whole time but doesnt have the kick to it when I get on it hard. Remember when you view the link above you have to add 10 degrees to their curves to compensate for our vacuum advancer. The way I know this is I called Dyna, they are here in So Cal and asked one of their engineers why their curves are less than our stocker curves. He said I was silly. I emailed him the link to the tech manual on vmaxoutlaw and told him the page number and to compare. He called me back the same day and told me I was the only one to notice that in all the years they had been selling them. He did some research and got back to me. He told me that the paper curves dont include the 10 degrees added by our vacuum advancers but the ignitor does take it into account. Maybe with the extreme advance we are getting some preignition and it might feel like a miss??????:ummm::confused2::ummm:
Cheers

I very much apologize to all for hijacking a great thread with my missing engine issues. I will immediately start a thread so as to redirect the great help I am getting from folks

See the soon to be published "Daves skipping/ popping missing motor problems , the Dark years ."

Maleko89 and RagingMain- thanks SOOO much for the suggestions, will put all this and my answer in the new thread.. . .

Sorry guys

___________________________

I THINK it is the right rear that is the issue. I have a Cobra 4x4 exhaust and that pipe skips, thuds,flubs,pops at idle

it sounded like I was having the same issue as Shuriken was.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=4954

Mleko89:
just ran the bike in the dark, couldn't see anything "jumping" though I am leaning toward a short or plug problem.
- I tried replacing coils, pug wires etc in different combination's
- cleaned every electrical connection I could get to and get apart.
-changed stock ignition to Dyna (stock rev limit, setting 2 on spark)

no change. once in awhile after I have been riding and get off for awhile, it runs GREAT when I get back on it warm.

the issue has been pretty consistent no matter WTF I change electrically.

RagingMain:
OK- so going with an NR plug won't effect the COP, good to go. thanks for the explanation on that.

The Dyna didn't doesn't have an effect + or - on the skip.

Other:
I found a few issues with the carbs as I said in the other thread. the primary one being the RR carb not being completely assembled (see pic) glad I paid $300+ to have them "professionally" rebuilt. I did sync them after fixing the issues. (pic attached)

I believe it is electrical in nature.

:ummm:

thanks guys. . . .
 

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Other:
I found a few issues with the carbs as I said in the other thread. the primary one being the RR carb not being completely assembled (see pic) glad I paid $300+ to have them "professionally" rebuilt. I did sync them after fixing the issues. (pic attached)

Dave,

I think this problem may well have something to do with you missing cylinder..

That 'unattached bit' you pointed at is your main needle jet. It has an o-ring on the other end, which in your case may be floating about in the float chamber - not a good idea. There's also a washer and a screw that holds it in place, and these guys could be flying around your float chamber too!

But more to the point, if and when the needle jet wraps itself up around the needle, it will fuel starve that carb and make that cylinder miss.


I'm in the process of writing a carb rebuild thread that may help you, but to fix this you'll need to at least remove your carbs as a set to access the float chambers, refit the o-ring, washer and holding screw to your needle jet.

Instructions for this are here: http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=3570&page=2

And here are some pics to illustrate my point:

fitting the needle jet
P1030794.jpg


fitting the o-ring
P1030795.jpg


o-ring in place
P1030796.jpg


jet block gasket
P1030800.jpg


jet block in place - note the needle jet has to be rotated as is in the picture to fit in the jet block properly
P1030815.jpg


needle jet washer and retaining screw
P1030818.jpg


the way it should be
P1030822.jpg
 
thanks G-
tonight I swapped plugs, wire's, and coils (new COP's and put a stock unit back in) even hit it with a big stick.

no change- I guess I need to take the carbs back off and relook them since I don't remember that o-ring being there.

BTW- did the shocks work out ?
 
no change- I guess I need to take the carbs back off and relook them since I don't remember that o-ring being there.

So, had you fixed that loose needle jet already or not?

BTW- did the shocks work out ?
When I first put them on, things (wobble) got worse so I went back to my 12.5" ones temporarily. But I since renewed my head bearings, and the bike's been off the road :bang head: waiting for parts as I did my carbs and found that the FR wheel bearings were shot too :damn angry:, and the spacer and flange between them were missing (!!)

Hopefully by this coming weekend it'll be back on the road, at which time I can experiment some more with the shocks as I would still prefer 13" to have full use of my center stand!
 
Yes, I had fixed the loose jet a few months ago, so I thought/ but as I said- don't remember that o-ring, or the washer. the screw is all I can remember.

sounds like you are pretty much rebuilding the bike :)
 
Yes, I had fixed the loose jet a few months ago, so I thought/ but as I said- don't remember that o-ring, or the washer. the screw is all I can remember.

sounds like you are pretty much rebuilding the bike :)

nah, just the carbs, and fixing POs's mistakes.. :confused2:

check out the carbs sub-forum, I posted a full carb rebuild in pictures (and in 6 parts lol) - hopefully it'll help ya!
 
Dave,

Sounds like you got the same shit going on as me! I have done everything you have done without ANY and I mean ANY progress.

Keep me in the loop brother and whoever figures it out gets a free 50 dollar outback giftcard from me!

Abe
 
Well i finally got the time to take out the carb again. All the parts were in place, but the o-ring seamed a little too flat so I replaced it and put it back in. Yesterday I synchronized the carbs and took it for a 2 hour ride, local, highway etc. during the sync I was still getting an occasional skip/flub/pop out of the cylinder, but NOTHING like it was.

the ride went pretty well- not perfect but a 90% improvement. very few misses, none during acceleration. Will take it out again today and see what we get.

almost have a real v-max now. . . thanks for the help guys.

HDKILA- have you tried the carbs? was SURE this was an electrical problem, and although I could have jostled a wire removing and replacing the carb, I think it unlikely. I have been through them 1/2 dozen times checking connections. :bang head: I think naughtyG's suggestion made the difference.
 
put another 50miles on the bike today.
-still misses when warming up, but pretty much goes away after it warms up.
-SOME at low RPM low power acceleration.
-none I can detect at high acceleration, full power, v-boost, deceleration.

definite improvement, and I am getting to really like my X- element jacket. Considering I got it thinking it would be a cool summer jacket, with the liner in it is nice and warm even at 100+:eusa_dance:
 
Dave,

Sounds like you got the same shit going on as me! I have done everything you have done without ANY and I mean ANY progress.

Keep me in the loop brother and whoever figures it out gets a free 50 dollar outback giftcard from me!

Abe

Abe, I know Mark rebuilt your carbs so they should be good. :confused2:

Mark, did you replace the needle jet o-rings or put the old ones back in?
 
I re-used all parts. They ran good on my bike but could change I suppose since I shipped 'em dry.
 
He was going to do that at a later time. I have some spares I can have but the outsides are kind of cracked. Insides are still good so seal would be there.
 
nah if they ran perfectly on your bike it's gotta be something else...

Abe, did you ever replace those boots?


Not yet. But that will be my next step if the R/R does not do the trick. I tell ya when i'm done with all this my bike will be like new!:rofl_200:
 
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