LockUp Clutches Lock Up

[hubeerjw]

O.k.... I'm looking for advice on a clutch for my dragbike.... I have found a few and wanted to know what the drag racers think is the best bang for the buck...

http://www.mtceng.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=44

?Yamaha V-MAX 2 Stage Lock Up Clutch

MTC Yamaha V-Max 2 Stage Lock Up Clutch
LUC-SFLYV
$311.10

Core Required:
♦ Barnett Billet Pressure Plate
♦ Cover Mod (Customer to perform)

There is the Otec clutch at http://www.wildbros.com/Clutches.html

http://www.orientexpress.com/images/catalog/clutchesLowRes.pdf

I'm sure there are more, so if you have any suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[lankeeyankee]

Lock up clutches are nice! It really all depends on what HP your putting out.
I seriously on the same route contraplaying building a strictly bracket dragbike for the 09 season. I pretty much came up with my decision of not street riding.

I am waiting on someone to buy the auto clutch and report back on it. MRE told me they would build me a slider clutch for the VMAX which also acts as a lockup. Or my other option is making my own slider clutch, but my machinist guy is slow as shit! But he doesnt charge me very much.
I know MRE is good qaulity.

That clutch looks great Jeff for 310.00

I havent had any clutch slippage problem with my Double D and OEM plates and frictions..

A double d VMAX clutch will hold some serious HP, in all honesty at this point I would use the 300.00 for something else..

 

[hubeerjw]

I'm hoping to be in the 160-200 hp range and then throw a little funny gas at it.... we'll see how much boost I can throw at it without going to low compression pistons. I got the 1300 motor for a decent price, so I figure it would be a good test engine before building a good motor with the rods, pistons, back-cut tranny, etc. Maybe it is good to keep the clutch the weak link... but like you said, the double d can hold quite a bit, so I'm sure parts will be flying!!!

 

[lankeeyankee]

A slider clutch is the way to go in the VMAX in my opinion if your going to be running a slick and wheelie bars.
With a slider you dont have that shock on the driveshaft and tranny on the launch. 160 HP with slick and bars on a VMAX? Be preparred to make a few launches. If your going to be running slick and bars,, RUN THE OEM driveshaft.

I am telling you Jeff the Slider Clutch is the way to go. Have you ever ridden a dragbike with a slider?
Once you have you will never want to run a regular spring clutch anymore, so much smoother and less shock on the drivetrain. Spend the extra 300.00 or you will be spending more than that on tranny and drive parts, ask Sean he can verify this...

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Hi Guys

Been lurking for a while ...sorry

Jeff I didn't realize that MTC had come out with a VMAX lockup. The one in the picture is the one you want. As we talked about, there are hardened buttons under the lockup levers. MTC has been making clutch lockups for a long time. They are friendly when comes to setting the clutch up.

Sliders are a better setup ... but not for a turbo. Your going have to spool that turbo up at the line to get a good launch boost. Sliders work on RPM. Not a good combo!

Also if you use a slider you really should get towed back to the pits. Some experienced riders play the clutch to get back. But it's not a good thing.

Gary

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Some other advice... don't backcut the first 2 gears. Never have on any of my VMAX dragbikes and they shifted as smooth as a sewing machine. Your probably going to run an air shifter. The best setup in my experience is the Pingle straight air setup and their kill switch.

Low maintenance and they shift every time. The less electrical stuff to deal with the better.

Gary

 

[one2dmax]

With a lockup the air shifter with the ignition kill will pretty much be necessary.
Sean

 

[hubeerjw]

Thanks guys!!!

O.k... I'm going to ask a VERY newbie question.... what is a "2 stage" lockup clutch? Is it that it functions like a regular clutch until a certain RPM and past that set RPM it "locks up". If so are all lock up clutches "2 Stage"?
Sorry, but I'm new to this stuff. I guess you might as well explain the difference between a slider and a lockup... I'll do some looking on the internet as well...

Lankee.... No, I have never ridden a drag bike with a slider clutch... Hell, I've never ridden a dragbike (unless you count my 02 with NOS and a drag slick):eusa_dance:. And I'm not sure if I even told you I'll be running a turbo setup... But I recently purchased Mark's (Birdofpray's) turbo setup.

Here is my plan.... Venture 1300 engine, thicker head gaskets, stronger studs, VMax Heads/Cams, Morley's overdrive oiling system, this turbo setup, and maybe a little NOS. I'll be strutting the rear, using wheelie bars, drag slick, and for now keep the stock wheel base, with stock a drive shaft(s) as Lankee just said.

Eventually, I'll be needing a new clutch, air shifter, ignition kill, I may go with one of Morley's 2.5" over / braced swingarms. I still have the heads off the Venture engine, so I'm no where close to worrying about swingarms yet. I've also been kicking around going to a chain drive system, but I'll probably only go that route if I can't keep the rear diffs together.

Gary, thanks for talking with me last night! If there is anything I can do to help you out on your projects, please let me know.

I'm just wondering if I bite the bullet now and get the air shifter now, so I can fit it in now on the bike, or just save some space and hold off.

 

[one2dmax]

Hey Jeff, Get with me about maybe doing a chain drive setup. If you are thinking about splitting you cases anyway. I have been really thinking about trying to make a big tire kit out of my chain drive conversion I have. It would involve splitting your cases and a simply trans mod as well as a custom swingarm and chain drive wheel.

Sean

 

[hubeerjw]

I was laying in bed last night and was thinking about trying to make a chain drive... I know there are a few different options out there, but they seem pretty complex. I don't have any experience with them, so I'm talking out of my arse a little bit, but I still think there should be a way to do this that is easier and less expensive than the options out there. I'm heading to Peoria, IL today and tomorrow so I may not be around here too much, but if nothing else, I'll give you a ring over the weekend.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Birdoprey]

Jeff,

All lockups work like a normal clutch until you build some rpm. All lockups that i know of are adjustable as to what rpm they start adding pressure to the clutch pack. They are pretty basic in that centrifugal force acts on the weights on the arms which forces the other ends of the arms to apply pressure on the pressure plate. A two stage has two adjustments that can be made. There are also "multi-stage" lockups which are the cats meow, but are a nightmare to get set right and they are $$$.
I would recomend a two stage. It will do what you want and also give you some experiance with getting it set like you want it. You can even set it up so you can basically throw the clutch away and allow the lockup to do the work...consistantly. Not as well as a multi-stage, but good enough.
Though a slider is the ultimate clutch, it is a strictly dragrace item. You would need to tow it back after making a pass, otherwise you'll go through clutches like water.

You gonna limit hp to under 200 to the wheel? Dump in some C-12 or C-16 and crank that sucker up! I would think a stk motor would handle 225 or so to the wheel as long as you don' t detonate. When i mentioned the hp i was planning with the turbo on my bike, i had in mind using pump gas, which REALLY limits things. Your drivetrain would be the limiting factor i would think, not nessisarily the motor.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sean if it will help with the chain drive conversion dollar thing. Check out this arm I have kicking around my shop.

http://www.turbovmax.com/turbo 1 gallery.htm

It's 4130 ( chromoly ) don't know if I still have struts... but that's no big deal to have made. It has a battery box mount down low, so you stuff all those extra goodies in under the seat where the battery used to live.

Powdercoated silver, I'd have it stripped and recoated but you can scuff it up and paint right over the powder.

$100.00 + shipping ( it's light about 15 lbs or so )

Gary

 

[one2dmax]

I will need to make a new arm for this particular project. The chaindrive conversion I am thinking of using does not have to modify the block like your setup is made for. The sprocket actually bolts up right on the outside of the middle gear cover. We will need to make get an offset sprocket to clear the frame rail then bring the swingarm out and around from behind the frame. This will allow for a big tire conversion too for those that are interested. should be able to fit a huge tire with this setup.

Sean

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sean

Sorry.... I meant to offer the arm to Jeff, must have had your offering to chain drive his motor on my mind.

Big tire breakie lots of parts at the drag strip, check this out

 

[TURBOVMAX]

oops try this:

http://www.turbovmax.com/new_page_1.htm

 

[lankeeyankee]

Oops I didnt realize your goal had a turbo involved.
Nope a slider isnt good with a turbo.. I dont know how your going to stay on a low budget?
Just doesnt make any sense, you want to know if its worth spending... what maybe 100-150 more to powder coat rather than paint.

I meant MTC I mentioned MRE.

As far as your airshifter goes I disagree with VMAXTURBO about using that POS air kill thing that comes with the kit.. Use an electric timer to kill the ignition. Mechanical devices have more a failure rate than electrical, in my expierence anyways. Plus you can dial your kill time in more precise within .001 of a second rather than trimming air length to control the kill.

Good luck, looks like VMAXTURBO will be more of a source with this topic.
By the way nice looking VMAX turbo. I would be more interested in seeing more detailed pictures.
Whats with that hydraulic device under your headlight coming from your clutch, almost looks like a line lock solenoid:ummm:

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Hi Yankee,

If you look real close at the lockup on Turbo 1 it's actually an MRE Kawasaki lockup clutch hat. The bolt circle is almost that of a VMAX just needed a little machining to spread the mounting bolts to a larger circle.

From my experience the Pingle kill worked well, back then we messed with it be increasing/decreasing the orifice. I always ended up with the standard kill.

Mr Max doesn't like his ignition circuit interupted. I've tried a lot of different things like 2 steps etc... I've since gone modern... shiftminder,autokill the list goes on and on. Nothing but headaches for me. When your running a pass and your bike doen't shift because of a bad electrical solinoid... it pisses ya off.

Squirt a little oil in the air the over air setup and it just keeps workin. Take a look at some Topfuel or Funny Bikes and you'll see lots of air operated stuff.

That device is something I dreamed up a long time ago. It consists of a line lock solinoid and needle valve (free flow one direction... metered in other) the free flow allows the oil to go back to the brake resevoir.

It works like this:

Get up to the line, pull the clutch lever in, hold the button on the bar (lock the solinoid) the needle valve now controls the lever speed once you release the button. The idea is to leave on the button and control the lever speed.

Drag Racing is all about that clutch as you know. That setup is sitting in a box somewhere. Once you get your lockup setup properly you simply let that lever go and the lockup does all that for you.

By the way.... how'd ya get to livin in Nashville, it's a bit below the Mason-Dixon line isn't it? :ummm:

Gary

 

[lankeeyankee]

Hi Yankee,

If you look real close at the lockup on Turbo 1 it's actually an MRE Kawasaki lockup clutch hat. The bolt circle is almost that of a VMAX just needed a little machining to spread the mounting bolts to a larger circle.

From my experience the Pingle kill worked well, back then we messed with it be increasing/decreasing the orifice. I always ended up with the standard kill.

Mr Max doesn't like his ignition circuit interupted. I've tried a lot of different things like 2 steps etc... I've since gone modern... shiftminder,autokill the list goes on and on. Nothing but headaches for me. When your running a pass and your bike doen't shift because of a bad electrical solinoid... it pisses ya off.

Squirt a little oil in the air the over air setup and it just keeps workin. Take a look at some Topfuel or Funny Bikes and you'll see lots of air operated stuff.

That device is something I dreamed up a long time ago. It consists of a line lock solinoid and needle valve (free flow one direction... metered in other) the free flow allows the oil to go back to the brake resevoir.

It works like this:

Get up to the line, pull the clutch lever in, hold the button on the bar (lock the solinoid) the needle valve now controls the lever speed once you release the button. The idea is to leave on the button and control the lever speed.

Drag Racing is all about that clutch as you know. That setup is sitting in a box somewhere. Once you get your lockup setup properly you simply let that lever go and the lockup does all that for you.

By the way.... how'd ya get to livin in Nashville, it's a bit below the Mason-Dixon line isn't it? :ummm:

Gary

You may be correct with the VMAX ignition not liking the kill. At first when I installed my MRE JR airshifter kit I used the kill it came with until it started acting up and heard others complaining, so I came up with the idea of using a 555 industrial timer, which worked flawless for 3 yrs after..
Hmm now I am thinking about the Kawi Slider for the VMAX,, thanks for that info I will send you over a message in more detailed questions about it. Good info there..

I am running the same exact clutch setup on my VMAX also and it looks like the same link lock / solenoid but I have mine mounted on the horizontal frame bar under the faux a little more hidden since I was using a delay box at while bracket racing in Jacksonville.
Same setup, Clutch master Cyl, to solenoid, into a flow control, than a steel line out to the slave. Had to use it with the delay box with no bars to slow the clutch down to keep it from falling and stalling since I am not running a 2 step,, well thats enough for this post...
You have more expierence and will be better in helping jeff with this topic.