Trump

[Traumahawk]

Industries in this country have times to flourish and times to struggle. It doesn't hurt my feelings to see the filthy rich oil industry struggle. I have spent way too much money paying for overpriced gasoline. Maybe the oil industry has run its course.As for people on welfare I don't know the numbers but the solution is not to implement polices that help the rediculously rich get richer. It would be a shame for the needs of a few to outweigh the needs of the many.

Look at the debtclock, and you can see how the country is doing. So look at the numbers......47 million. 47000000 are on food stamps.

Ummm you do know that the plastic of the computer that your currently typing in is made from oil?

http://usdebtclock.org/

 

[Traumahawk]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-russia-trump-idUSKBN14U2QZ

The Trump supporters will try to dismiss this or anything he does no matter how much he compromises the constitution,Democracy or national security. Rather than look at the ugly truths that come with Trump people will choose to dismiss and ignore on the basis that " I only voted for him because Hillary was so much worse". The fact is any of his Republican opponents were a better choice and people voted for Trump because he preached what they wanted to hear. White Americans and particularly white men are so afraid of the collapse of white privilege that they flocked to a political platform that supports and translates violence against the defenseless as strength.

You left out Nazi, homophobic, xenophobic, Racist, and quite a few of the other buzzwords that the left uses when they cant come up with a good discussion.

 

[99Maxrider]

Look at the debtclock, and you can see how the country is doing. So look at the numbers......47 million. 47000000 are on food stamps.

Ummm you do know that the plastic of the computer that your currently typing in is made from oil?

http://usdebtclock.org/

And it is also made in China. I am sure we can make a device not dependent on oil. I live and work out in the world,the debt clock can say whatever but myself and all I know are doing much better than in 08. Do you really think Trumps all rich agenda and richest cabinet in History is going to help your debt clock? He will increase spending,increase tax on middle class and debt will skyrocket. When Trump is done you will pay three times as much for that device you are typing on or anything else for that matter.

 

[Traumahawk]

And it is also made in China. I am sure we can make a device not dependent on oil. I live and work out in the world,the debt clock can say whatever but myself and all I know are doing much better than in 08. Do you really think Trumps all rich agenda and richest cabinet in History is going to help your debt clock? He will increase spending,increase tax on middle class and debt will skyrocket. When Trump is done you will pay three times as much for that device you are typing on or anything else for that matter.

There was a post when Kronx and I were chatting back and forth, where I said that i'm doing better that I was in 2000 (all due to a career change in 07). I have hard assets now, house, and retirement, that i didnt have before. but I know that the rest of the country isnt doing well.

Yep....I voted for Trump. If he doesnt work out, i will still say that i voted for him, and will take responsibility for that, but he was a better candidate than Hildebeast.

 

[Kronx]

If you've had the news on tonight you saw this (well maybe not if you were watching fox) .

There are claims Russia has damaging information....enough to blackmail Trump if necessary. In addition they are claiming his campaign was in close contact with government officials in Russia,that were providing them with dirt on Hillary.

Have you wondered why he has shown so much affection for Putin and Russia?

Here are the actual memos that were used to create the documents, that were presented to the President and Trump last week that relate to the "compromising information".

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

Dems need to tread carefully on this story until more solid evidence supports this assertion or otherwise it could blow up in their face. Even the hard left sites like Mother Jones and Huffington Post are going out of their way to say this isn't verified. And if those clueless dolts at Huffington Post are smelling bullshit on a Trump piece then that should be a red flag because those fuckers will write 4 articles about one Trump tweet.

Smells like a honey pot trick to me. Throw some bullshit stories out there and hope the left takes the bait. Discredits the ones that do and helps foster doubt in case any legitimate shit comes out down the road. And lets be real here -- what could Russia possibly have that could ruin Trump? The dude made fun of handicaps, shit on PoWs, shit on a gold star family, admitted to sexual assault on tape, admitted to peeping in on the beauty pageant girls when he knew they would be undressed, has the hots for his daughter - none of that even caused his supporters to blink. The last 12 months has provided plenty of solid evidence that they don't care what he does and he knows it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA

 

[99Maxrider]

Look at the debtclock, and you can see how the country is doing. So look at the numbers......47 million. 47000000 are on food stamps.

Ummm you do know that the plastic of the computer that your currently typing in is made from oil?

http://usdebtclock.org/

Done some research on your debt clock

The facts are undisputed. In 2000, the debt clock in New York City was shut down because it was ticking backwards. A few months later, George W. Bush came into office with a budget in surplus. Facing a mild recession, he promptly blew the surplus with a round of across-the-board tax breaks that was mostly enjoyed by the richest Americans.
Then 9/11 happened. In the midst of two wars, Bush and the Republican-dominated Congress passed another huge tax cut that greatly benefited the investor class and an unfunded expansion of Medicare that shortened the lifespan of the program. Along the way, Bush also exploded government spending on the military and homeland security. In 2008 the financial crisis hit, triggering hundreds of billions of dollars in mandatory spending increases for the millions of Americans who were suddenly out of work.
All this was entirely the result of right-wing policies approved by a right-wing president and a right-wing Congress. You can blame the financial crisis on Bush or simply note that it happened after seven years with him in the White House. But there’s no doubt; the policies were Republican.

 

[99Maxrider]

You left out Nazi, homophobic, xenophobic, Racist, and quite a few of the other buzzwords that the left uses when they cant come up with a good discussion.

Your words not mine and I would expect that cop out defense from the right that defends voting for Trump as the only alternative. There were other republicans in the primary and Trump was chosen because the overwhelming voters from the right agree with and admire what he stands for.

 

[Traumahawk]

Done some research on your debt clock

The facts are undisputed. In 2000, the debt clock in New York City was shut down because it was ticking backwards. A few months later, George W. Bush came into office with a budget in surplus. Facing a mild recession, he promptly blew the surplus with a round of across-the-board tax breaks that was mostly enjoyed by the richest Americans.
Then 9/11 happened. In the midst of two wars, Bush and the Republican-dominated Congress passed another huge tax cut that greatly benefited the investor class and an unfunded expansion of Medicare that shortened the lifespan of the program. Along the way, Bush also exploded government spending on the military and homeland security. In 2008 the financial crisis hit, triggering hundreds of billions of dollars in mandatory spending increases for the millions of Americans who were suddenly out of work.
All this was entirely the result of right-wing policies approved by a right-wing president and a right-wing Congress. You can blame the financial crisis on Bush or simply note that it happened after seven years with him in the White House. But there’s no doubt; the policies were Republican.

Wow.....I said "look at the debt clock" (and this isnt the one from New York), and now your telling me this is "All Bush's fault?"

 

[99Maxrider]

Wow.....I said "look at the debt clock" (and this isnt the one from New York), and now your telling me this is "All Bush's fault?"

And your saying it's all Obama? Democrats only had total control in congress for 2 years and in 2010 republicans gained control of the house and 2014 gained control of the Senate. I think it safe to say It's not all Obamas fault

 

[tothemax93]

Dems need to tread carefully on this story until more solid evidence supports this assertion or otherwise it could blow up in their face. Even the hard left sites like Mother Jones and Huffington Post are going out of their way to say this isn't verified. And if those clueless dolts at Huffington Post are smelling bullshit on a Trump piece then that should be a red flag because those fuckers will write 4 articles about one Trump tweet.

Smells like a honey pot trick to me. Throw some bullshit stories out there and hope the left takes the bait. Discredits the ones that do and helps foster doubt in case any legitimate shit comes out down the road.

+1 All reports I read said the Source was unidentified, story unverified, Mistakes in the basic information. Expect several more "stories" between now and at least the 20th. Haters gonna hate.

 

[caseyjones955]

Even if Russia has damaging information on Trump, what could they tell us that would shock us, or him. The guy already has no shame, we already know hes not a good or stable dude. Hes not POTUS because we love him, hes POTUS because hes not Hilliary. So far hes doing much better than I expected but my expectations were quite low. The benchmark for "shocking shit about Trump" is way up there.

They couldnt make anything up that would dissuade his fans or make his haters hate him anymore. It's all good. Hillary is gone and so is ACA, I'm content if he bursts into flames tomorrow.

 

[99Maxrider]

Even if Russia has damaging information on Trump, what could they tell us that would shock us, or him. The guy already has no shame, we already know hes not a good or stable dude. Hes not POTUS because we love him, hes POTUS because hes not Hilliary. So far hes doing much better than I expected but my expectations were quite low. The benchmark for "shocking shit about Trump" is way up there.

They couldnt make anything up that would dissuade his fans or make his haters hate him anymore. It's all good. Hillary is gone and so is ACA, I'm content if he bursts into flames tomorrow.

If he is not POTUS because you love him only because he is better than Hillary why would you not select a more stable candidate in the primary? Lets look and see what really happens with ACA and how great the replacement is. I cannot wait to give it the same one sided scrutiny Obamacare has gotten. It is kinda sad that no matter what damning info there is about Trump people will blindly follow. It could be that he is followed not simply because he was better than Hillary but because he preaches exactly what his supporters stand for and believe.

 

[Bill Seward]

99Maxrider, you hit the nail on the head. Many of Trumpfs followers tended toward the intolerant side of the spectrum. His actions, personality, comments, etc. all validated their personality flaws, and bigotry.

 

[Kronx]

If he is not POTUS because you love him only because he is better than Hillary why would you not select a more stable candidate in the primary? Lets look and see what really happens with ACA and how great the replacement is. I cannot wait to give it the same one sided scrutiny Obamacare has gotten. It is kinda sad that no matter what damning info there is about Trump people will blindly follow. It could be that he is followed not simply because he was better than Hillary but because he preaches exactly what his supporters stand for and believe.

There is no doubt some people in America who love the stuff Trump says. They bought the hats and the T-Shirts, etc. But I don't think that's the majority of Trump voters. One thing I've learned through discussions, including here with good folks like Casey and Poppop and Trauma, is that's not why most people voted for him.

Look, I'm not sure you'll find someone on these forums who dislikes Trump more than I do, but I do understand now, more than I did a few months ago, why he got so many votes. And when I look it from their perspectives, I get it. I really do.

What I would love to see more Americans do is take off their team jerseys. Stop getting behind Red or Blue and just get behind the issues. When we got our team jerseys on its human nature to want to battle. And I saw a quote recently that read something like "And when you're in a battle, everything around you looks like a knife."

I got big fears about Trump. I fear Trumps indecency not only invites indecency, but his position will normalize it. I'm embarrassed that our President of the United States has such a thin skin and can't handle criticism of any kind. I'm concerned about choice to shut out the press and America's primary source of his positions are through fucking Twitter. Not only does it just seem ridiculous to me, but it's almost Wizard of Ozish to me.

But despite my disdain for him, I can at least understand why some Trump's voters felt there really was no other choice. That's not to say I don't recognize the hypocrisy of saying Clinton is unfit for the office because of her character and then countering that with praise for Trump. That's not to say I'm dumbfounded why any vet would defend him shitting on POWs and a Gold Star family. That's not to say as a father of daughter I'm disgusted by those that applaud his misogynistic actions and comments. That it breaks my heart to see a man who self admits to sexual harassment and deliberately walking in on pageant contestants when they were changing and when women come forward claiming they were the recipients of the VERY actions he admits to doing they defend him and attack the women.

But I don't think that element of Trump supporters is the majority who voted for him. I certainly don't think that element exists here on these forums.

I just take all those lessons and try to make them teachable moments for my kids. Its all I can do since i can't wrap my head around that stuff. I tell my son who is now in the Air Force that there will be many veterans with whom will choose party over country. I tell my daughter that she will have to be tougher than her brother because we are still in a country who sides with rapist before the victim. That America sides with abuser more than the ones they abuse. It's why I take her to the gun range way more than I took my son. It's why I've taught her everything I was taught in boxing more than I did my son. I got to accept the reality and give them tools to deal with it.

 

[tothemax93]

It could be that he is followed not simply because he was better than Hillary but because he preaches exactly what his supporters stand for and believe.

I agree completely with this statement. The reason the other Rep candidates went by the wayside, is for the most part, they were establishment. If anyone of those, had a similar message, and courage to say it, they had a much better chance of winning, than Trump. No where near the baggage. Maybe the other candidates were better for your view, but not the other 50%. The Americans that voted for trump weren't in love with him, They were disgusted with the direction of the country.

 

[caseyjones955]

If he is not POTUS because you love him only because he is better than Hillary why would you not select a more stable candidate in the primary? Lets look and see what really happens with ACA and how great the replacement is. I cannot wait to give it the same one sided scrutiny Obamacare has gotten. It is kinda sad that no matter what damning info there is about Trump people will blindly follow. It could be that he is followed not simply because he was better than Hillary but because he preaches exactly what his supporters stand for and believe.

Theres a lot of truth in that, some do follow him for those reasons. From what I can see Trump rang so popular for two main reasons, aside from being completely right about Obama and Hillary.

1. He directly countered the liberal progressive movement. When Obama came out saying Hillary was going to continue his legacy I could literally hear a nail being thumped into the coffin.

2. The second thing is he defied "politics as usual" and I even know a few dems that have had enough of Washington same ol' same ol'. The above is my opinion formulated from observation but I am 100% sure that virtually any other candidate forsaking politics as usual would have taken the crown. As long as we have a bipartisan electoral system and heavily biased media we will be excluding potentially highly qualified independent candidates.

I would rather see ACA repealed without replacement than a replacement that fails to exclude government from insurance. Everything the gov touches turns bad, it was an overreach to allow GOV to handle private matters. Ie premiums that rose nearly 25% in one year and having to pay a stiff fine for handing your healthcare costs yourself. It's like paying GM a hefty annual fine for not buying one of their shitty cars. I'm happy that a few folks were helped by ACA this was very bad for masses of people.

 

[99Maxrider]

I would love for someone to spell out exactly what Obama did that was so terrible that a complete disaster like Trump would get elected.Not looking for opinion but facts. Not how it affected you personally but the country as a whole.Same for Hillary, I keep hearing she is terrible so explain how she is worse than Trump. Also please explain how keeping government out of healthcare helps the average person. I don't know why we would not regulate something like healthcare to keep the cost affordable for all. I can see why people who are employed in healthcare hate to see it regulated. Lets keep a basic human need unregulated so the cost for the less fortunate people spiral out of control. The next step after lower income people cannot afford healthcare will be that they just don't pay their bills, then the cry will be that these deadbeats are causing cost to rise for us more fortunate ones because that cost is passed on to us. The government is supposed to be for the people, for the greater good not just for the good of the more fortunate. So lets put a list together of how Trump is better than Obama or Hillary and lets keep track over the next four years or however long he last.

 

[Traumahawk]

Unfortunately it is my belief that after you mentioned white americans, white men, and white privilege, people could lay out a LOT of facts......I dont believe that you will listen.

 

[99Maxrider]

Unfortunately it is my belief that after you mentioned white americans, white men, and white privilege, people could lay out a LOT of facts......I dont believe that you will listen.

I would use that line to if I couldnt come up with anything. Just another way of justifying voting for Trump without actually having to have a good reason.

 

[Kronx]

I would love for someone to spell out exactly what Obama did that was so terrible that a complete disaster like Trump would get elected.Not looking for opinion but facts. Not how it affected you personally but the country as a whole.Same for Hillary, I keep hearing she is terrible so explain how she is worse than Trump. Also please explain how keeping government out of healthcare helps the average person. I don't know why we would not regulate something like healthcare to keep the cost affordable for all. I can see why people who are employed in healthcare hate to see it regulated. Lets keep a basic human need unregulated so the cost for the less fortunate people spiral out of control. The next step after lower income people cannot afford healthcare will be that they just don't pay their bills, then the cry will be that these deadbeats are causing cost to rise for us more fortunate ones because that cost is passed on to us. The government is supposed to be for the people, for the greater good not just for the good of the more fortunate. So lets put a list together of how Trump is better than Obama or Hillary and lets keep track over the next four years or however long he last.

I will not defend Trump, because I loathe him. But here's some of the bigger things about the other two that I personally took issue with(this isn't everything, just some big ones for me):

Obama:

1> His prolific use of drone strikes. The United States of America carries out over 500+ bombing sorties from drones a year and has been doing it for years under his administration. We bomb people every day. Every fucking day. And the American people are never informed of it from his administration. We can't get much information from our government so we have to rely mostly on other sources for it. We know that hundreds if not thousands of innocent civilians have been killed over the course of his administration with these drone strikes that he has authorized with his executive power. We have dropped so many bombs under his watch that we started running out of bombs! We have hit wrong targets, innocent targets. Did you know we wiped out dozens of innocent civilians who were having a wedding in one strike because we were wrong? How many enemies do you think that one strike created? And lets not forget he campaigned hard on transparency. Then he hypocritically expressed concern about future presidents abusing that power and doing the very same shit he has been doing - drone bombing the shit out people. He's pretty much changed the national symbol from the American bald eagle to a drone on his own.

2> His support of the Patriot Act and the surveillance of our own citizens even though when he campaigned for office he criticized it. The Patriot Act could have died on his watch. It had an expiration date and he renewed it.

3> And when people tried to let the citizens know about these things(ie whistleblowers) his administration established a pretty solid record of punishing them. Again, so much for the transparency he campaigned on.

Hillary:

1> She supported the Patriot Act in 2001 and she supported it's re-authorization in 2006. If you haven't figured it out, I fucking hate the Patriot Act.

2> She made the wrong call on the Iraq War and her plans for how to handle Syria I didn't agree with at all.

3> Hot Sauce. You're probably thinking "Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill" but the hot sauce moment was just this "cherry on top"l proof to me she just didn't fucking get it after all of the years she's been called out on her bullshit(hey remember Kosovo and sniper fire?). If you don't know what I'm referring to when she was running for the nomination she was on an African American radio show. They asked what she carries in her purse and her response was hot sauce. Obvious pander right? Well pander is a political term for lying. Lets just get that fact out of the way there.

But for me the timing of that hot sauce moment is very important. She was running against Sanders and his support was swelling. She was well aware there was many in her party that didn't support her and much of the reason was because she's been caught many times in a lie. There was distrust of her within her own party. She KNEW Sanders rise among the party was he spoke his mind. She is seeing the popularity of Trump, but also very importantly she saw the almost immediate dismissal of Jeb Bush among the GOP. So she had all the information she needed to know that "Hey I should probably just be real with the people" and yet she said hot sauce without hesitation. That shit is low hanging fruit and she couldn't even avoid the pander. When she caught pneumonia her campaign handled that in pretty much the worst way possible. Time and time again in her 2016 campaign Clinton proved, at least to me she NEVER learns from her own mistakes. People are going to make mistakes. I totally accept that, but when demonstrably proves they don't learn from their own fuck ups then that's a problem with me. In my head I've just shortened the opinion of "Hillary never learns from her mistakes" to "hot sauce." So when you take #3 of "don't learn from your mistakes" and go back and look #1 and #2 -- yea I had alot of problems with Clinton.

But none of that really matters now because Trump is the president and while I sincerely hope the best for our country moving forward under his administration I've got very low expectations. I hope for the best, but I expect such a clusterfuck of a presidency that it will make the Bush Administration look like the golden age. But if I'm wrong, I will so gladly eat my crow and admit I was wrong.