Welcome to Bazaar World

[maxcruiser]

Now this is one of the strangest things that ever happened in my motorcycle years.

I pulled out my wife's Radian to get it ready for the season. Took it off the trickle charger, washed it, put the key in it, press the starter button and ka-klunk. Nothing more and nothing less, Ka-Klunk.

After a moment of, WTF???, I tried again, Ka-Klunk, engine not turning over, nothing?

So diagnosing time, test battery - good, check starter relay connection - good, check ground strap - good, check all electrical connections - good, take plugs out, try to start again, Ka-Klunk

Next, remove timing cover, try turning engine over with a wrench, and only turns a half turn either way and stops. Point flashlight into spark plug holes while turning engine and the pistons are hitting the intake valves.

Now to back up a bit, I was the last one to ride the bike last year. Did a 160 mile ride with ZERO issues, came home and park bike garage. Couple weeks later, change oil, stabilizer, etc... basically store the bike for the winter.

Best I can guess is that the cam chain skipped, somewhere between shutting it off, at end of least season, or on start up this year. No visible damage to valves or piston tops while viewing with a scope through the sparkplugs holes.

Not happy to have to fix it, but very happy it didn't happen while riding (catastrophic engine failure).

Will get into teardown in the next week or so to see how bad it is and try to figure out how it happened.

Mike

 

[bazwell]

OK. That counts as bizarre.
WTF? Do you have gremlins in your shed?

 

[adamax]

:ummm: IMHO, it would skip a teeth if very old and worn out. I suggest the valve froze open. Patience...soon someone with a better experience shall chime in...

 

[PDWeyand]

An attack of gremlins. You need to set gremlin traps.

 

[dannymax]

That's a strange one Mike but I don't think the chain skipped a tooth....with the cam sprockets holding the chain up and the front & rear tensioners in place it's almost impossible....you just about have to drop the chain into the motor to have it skip.

I'm leaning more toward a stuck valve....maybe spray some lube in, let it sit? :confused2:

 

[Redbone]

Very weird indeed! Sucks actually! I well be interested to find out what happened too.

 

[maxcruiser]

That's a strange one Mike but I don't think the chain skipped a tooth....with the cam sprockets holding the chain up and the front & rear tensioners in place it's almost impossible....you just about have to drop the chain into the motor to have it skip.

I'm leaning more toward a stuck valve....maybe spray some lube in, let it sit? :confused2:

Danny, I would agree with you accept that when turning the crank manually 1/2 a turn, the intake valves on piston 1 & 3 are moving at the same time and hitting the top of the pistons.

I did adjust the cam chain tensioner bolt and it went in (tighten chain) to housing almost all the way. So I'm thinking the cam chain guide rail may have broke. Of course speculation until I take it apart.

I do have a back up engine sitting on the bench that I was gonna eventullay rebuild, maybe sooner than later now.

Mike

 

[dannymax]

Danny, I would agree with you accept that when turning the crank manually 1/2 a turn, the intake valves on piston 1 & 3 are moving at the same time and hitting the top of the pistons.

I did adjust the cam chain tensioner bolt and it went in (tighten chain) to housing almost all the way. So I'm thinking the cam chain guide rail may have broke. Of course speculation until I take it apart.

I do have a back up engine sitting on the bench that I was gonna eventullay rebuild, maybe sooner than later now.

Mike

Is that the spring loaded tensioner Mike?

If so then it is really wierd!! Maybe the guide rail had broken during the last ride but the running engine kept tension on the chain until you shut it off? :ummm:

Really reaching there....:confused2:

 

[naughtyG]

Sure sounds like a timing chain failure - which bit exactly you'll find out when tearing it open.

Those things can fail without warning..

 

[sdt354]

All the valves Mike?

 

[sdt354]

:ummm: IMHO, it would skip a teeth if very old and worn out. I suggest the valve froze open. Patience...soon someone with a better experience shall chime in...

It sounds like you are experienced. The valves could be moving and still not be closing all the way. I'd get the valve covers off and watch the valve action and parts, keepers, valve stem. Turning the motor over by hand only. Making sure they all seat. I'm all for easy and cheap first.
I run my engine every 2 weeks year round, up to temp. It's a long shot, but does happen to a high milage (hrs. really) engine in storage once in a while. I don't want it to be mine if I can avoid it. Carbed engines in a marine environment get fogged with oil foam at the last run, then the oil is changed. The thinking is to coat internals the best
we can. I hope it's not an expensive fix.
Steve

 

[maxcruiser]

Is that the spring loaded tensioner Mike?

If so then it is really wierd!! Maybe the guide rail had broken during the last ride but the running engine kept tension on the chain until you shut it off? :ummm:

Really reaching there....:confused2:

Yes, spring loaded tensioner.

 

[maxcruiser]

An attack of gremlins. You need to set gremlin traps.

Hell I hope not, I haven't even tried to start my Vmax yet.

Damn you Gremlin bastards. :th_biggun:

Mike

 

[maxcruiser]

It sounds like you are experienced. The valves could be moving and still not be closing all the way. I'd get the valve covers off and watch the valve action and parts, keepers, valve stem. Turning the motor over by hand only. Making sure they all seat. I'm all for easy and cheap first.
I run my engine every 2 weeks year round, up to temp. It's a long shot, but does happen to a high milage (hrs. really) engine in storage once in a while. I don't want it to be mine if I can avoid it. Carbed engines in a marine environment get fogged with oil foam at the last run, then the oil is changed. The thinking is to coat internals the best
we can. I hope it's not an expensive fix.
Steve

The engine has atleast 50,000 miles on it, it was getting tired hence why I bought another engine to rebuild. the bazarre thing is not that it happened, it's how it happened.

The second engine is already half torn down and will be completely torn down and rebuilt. Want to do a complete rebuild, was slowly buying all new internal parts, crank bearings on up. Will cost a few bucks but Wife's first bike and she won't part with it. Tried to get her to upgrade to the Virago I'm currently rebuilding, but so far she doesn't want it.

Mike

 

[naughtyG]

Funny, a bazaar is one of those crazy fleamarket type shops usually found in Africa where everything sold has to be seriously argued over in a large helping of barter.

I think you meant 'bizarre' as in strange, weird and unexplained?

 

[likembikem]

That's funny G, I can laugh now; my bike is running good. I hope MaxC gets it figured out I would be panicky. On a separate but similar note, my wifes DR125 California model needed more power, go figure. So I rejetted and removed the Cal. canister. A year later I'm just now getting around to making it run and have found I have to use the canister for this model carb, which I have had a hard time finding the hose routing diagram. Its going to be ok I believe, but... this is one reason I dreaded removing the carbs on the Vmax. I have had problems with this one carb, did I really want to tackle 4? and possibly have to load it on the trailer of shame for the dealer? Vmax went well and this 125 is going well now, I'd have to say mostly because of you guys!